The missed post from JaWoodle

[khzmusik]

This is 0% Jawoodle's fault.

TFP screwed up. They gave him a version which (accidentally) had bandits and chicken coops in the game, though they didn't spawn.

They gave him explicit instructions to show the features of that version.

He did so. True he had to spawn them in with F6, and it was obvious they weren't ready, but this was a pre-release build anyway. Jawoodle said it was likely that they were still works in progress. (I watched the video before it was taken down.)

They only notified him that he was given a build by mistake, and that the chicken coops and bandits weren't in the game, after the embargo and after his video went live.

When he was notified, Jawoodle posted a comment, and pinned it, saying he was given the build by mistake and that these features were not going to be in 3.0.

That should have been enough. Once he made it clear that these were not finished features, and wouldn't be in 3.0, there's no way it could damage TFP or its reputation with any reasonable person.

He did not take the video down, but he was under no obligation to do so. He is not a TFP employee, the video was not subsidized by TFP, and there was no contract that gave TFP editorial control over that video (or any of his videos).

And TFP/Behavior's response was to lawyer up, so that Jawoodle also had to lawyer up on short notice. Rather than hash things out, in the end, TFP/Behavior issued copyright claims against the video (which they shouldn't do since they fully authorized this use at the time), and apparently told Jawoodle's lawyers they are still considering further legal action.

It's a hell of a lot more than just kicking him out of the creator's club or whatever it's called, or not allowing him to participate in streamer's weekend again. That would be a bad move but whatever.

This is TFP/Behavior going nuclear because they, and only they, screwed up.

 

[Jost Amman]

These history analogies are getting absolutely absurd. Like I can’t even dignify this one with a response because they’re apples and oranges and you know it or maybe you don’t?

Unless you're stupid or in bad faith, you should tell a hyperbole vs. a real comparison...

Post automatically merged: Today at 6:54 PM

This is 0% Jawoodle's fault.

TFP screwed up. They gave him a version which (accidentally) had bandits and chicken coops in the game, though they didn't spawn.

They gave him explicit instructions to show the features of that version.

He did so. True he had to spawn them in with F6, and it was obvious they weren't ready, but this was a pre-release build anyway. Jawoodle said it was likely that they were still works in progress. (I watched the video before it was taken down.)

They only notified him that he was given a build by mistake, and that the chicken coops and bandits weren't in the game, after the embargo and after his video went live.

When he was notified, Jawoodle posted a comment, and pinned it, saying he was given the build by mistake and that these features were not going to be in 3.0.

That should have been enough. Once he made it clear that these were not finished features, and wouldn't be in 3.0, there's no way it could damage TFP or its reputation with any reasonable person.

He did not take the video down, but he was under no obligation to do so. He is not a TFP employee, the video was not subsidized by TFP, and there was no contract that gave TFP editorial control over that video (or any of his videos).

And TFP/Behavior's response was to lawyer up, so that Jawoodle also had to lawyer up on short notice. Rather than hash things out, in the end, TFP/Behavior issued copyright claims against the video (which they shouldn't do since they fully authorized this use at the time), and apparently told Jawoodle's lawyers they are still considering further legal action.

It's a hell of a lot more than just kicking him out of the creator's club or whatever it's called, or not allowing him to participate in streamer's weekend again. That would be a bad move but whatever.

This is TFP/Behavior going nuclear because they, and only they, screwed up.

Except in your narrative you conveniently left out that he refused to amicably edit his video to remove the content that wasn't supposed to be disclosed.

 

[Nukem_ded]

i saw his video, and to me the bandits looked like and sounded like bandits in any number of mods. that implies the modders have had at least some of the bandit code for a good long while now. how did they get that and why are they not being bullied as well?

my take on this is the tfp etc are using this as free publicity. theres no such thing as bad publicity right? they are simply using age old bully boy tactics to increase their exposure, standard evil big business practice. the current major business model where companies have more rights than people and exist to screw customers and employees alike for shareholder profit whilst destroying the environment and in some cases entire countries (look into the banana industry), is just wrong. think petro companies, big pharma, supermarket duopolies, mining, ... most use the same basic business models.

they could have quietly solved this and have it go away. but no, they are making a song and dance about it. why? who does it benefit?

jawoodle has chosen to stand up to himself and not bend over and grab his ankles, and bloody good on him. if he did what they want he would suffer cost without compensation whilst big business continues to hoover up revenue left and right. so why should he cave when there seems to be no compelling legal reason to do so?

stand tall JW, dont bend over.

 

[theFlu]

Do you know what state those assets were in?

Yes, I saw the video. They were a decent rendition of an ugly <censored for the reason we can't talk about future content>. They worked all right for a dev build; plenty of work to do, but clearly on the right path. Nothing we couldn't predict, because <censored> has been promised for a long while.

Do you know what kind of damage an unfinished reveal could do to the marketing of the actual finished product?

Explain to me how a historical Early Access title is going to be harmed by showing features "as they weren't"? They're the bread and butter of the current game ...

Also, when you say "drop the lawsuit" are you referring to a lawsuit from TFP?

Yes. Woodle said he needed legal councel, I don't know if an actual case has been filed; but even the standard DMCA-request removal leads to court if the publisher disagrees. Don't see why this wouldn't.

Fighting in court over this is like having a fist fight over spilled milk ... leaving the milk still on the floor, and both parties hurting.

 

[Double G]

They were live streams, they had to be public to get viewers to donate. Rockefeller made it public to curb outrage against his already scummy business practices. He was scum and everyone already knew it. Josh has had a clean PR record and has been donating way before this happened. Again, it’s not the same thing

What I'm saying is the act of philanthropy should not be used as a shield. Using it in the way you have comes across as emotionally manipulative and is also immaterial to the matter at hand.

Also do you personally know this Josh person, or do you only know what you've seen from his videos? Unless you know him personally, you have no idea who he is. He could be a sociopath for all we know. And Rockefeller could arguably be considered a sociopath and he used philanthropy to prop up his appearance.

So all I'm saying is philanthropy does not automatically make you clean. And you also don't have to be starting with a bad reputation to use philanthropy. Philanthropist Bill Gates was Mr. Fine & Dandy for a long time up until recently.

 

[theFlu]

Using it in the way you have comes across as emotionally manipulative and is also immaterial to the matter at hand.

I mean, he started by replying to a post accusing JaWoodle of a godcomplex and narcissism, among other things; finishing with a "I hope they bleed him dry financially" ... pure emotional manipulation was what was being replied to.

 

[Mamzir]

I watch him all the time but he knew what he was doing and still has a video with Bandits and chickens on the thumbnail so obviously he wants to carry it on for click bait.
I could fully understand if the TFP blacklisted him from further events.■■■■ are you on their payroll?

Are you joking or are you on their payroll? They admitted they sent him the wrong build and still went after him legally. He in fact did NOY know what he was doing may have been wrong. TFP admitted fault and refused to come to a conclusion that benefitted both parties, it was their way or the highway. TFP is in the wrong.

Post automatically merged: Today at 7:15 PM

He shouldve simply asked if bandits were intended to be in that patch or not, it is obvious that its not ready to be shown yet

But those streamers are, as far as i know, unpaid volunteers so TFP shouldve expected some people to act unprofessionally (in general, not aimed at jawoodle) and double or tripple checked everything before handing over the patch.

In my opinion the video should get taken down, and jawoodle shouldnt get blacklisted. Both parties messed up.

I've had to work with volunteer testers in the past and the amount of hand holding you need to do is insane... and there are going to be leaks all over the place.

Why he was given the build and did what he had done every time they did this. It's not his fault TFP messed up

 

[bdubyah]

Are you joking or are you on their payroll? They admitted they sent him the wrong build and still went after him legally. He in fact did NOY know what he was doing may have been wrong.

If a creator for a game is unaware of what content an update is going to have, they probably shouldn't be making content. Just seems lazy. If he was paying attention he would've known 3.0 was the Sandbox update, not the bandit update. You think they would just add them in and not mention them anywhere? Use your brain.

TFP admitted fault and refused to come to a conclusion that benefitted both parties

But they did try. They gave him a way to not get hit with a copyright strike, and he refused. All he had to do was remove like 1 or 2 shorts, and edit the main 3.0 preview vid he made and remove like 15 minutes of it or so. Then it would've stayed up and kept making him money and avoided all of this ■■■■. But again, he refused.

 

[Double G]

Yes, I saw the video. They were a decent rendition of an ugly <censored for the reason we can't talk about future content>. They worked all right for a dev build; plenty of work to do, but clearly on the right path. Nothing we couldn't predict, because <censored> has been promised for a long while.

What?

Explain to me how a historical Early Access title is going to be harmed by showing features "as they weren't"? They're the bread and butter of the current game

That doesn't matter. They didn't want these bandits and the other content revealed. And that also doesn't answer the rest of my questions.

Yes. Woodle said he needed legal councel, I don't know if an actual case has been filed; but even the standard DMCA-request removal leads to court if the publisher disagrees. Don't see why this wouldn't.

Fighting in court over this is like having a fist fight over spilled milk ... leaving the milk still on the floor, and both parties hurting.

Still there was no clear indication that TFP/BHVR was continuing to seek legal action...despite what the title stated.

I mean, he started by replying to a post accusing JaWoodle of a godcomplex and narcissism, among other things; finishing with a "I hope they bleed him dry financially" ... pure emotional manipulation was what was being replied to.

And two wrongs don't make a right.
And also you can't use philanthropy against claims of a god complex and narcissism when it's known that narcissists with god complexes like to show how philanthropic they are.

 

[beerfly]

This is a lesson that should be learned from both sides how to react.

A situation that went far away from how it should go. Going legal or illegal is far away. Lets hope this doesn`t happen again and move on.

 

[theFlu]

Still there was no clear indication that TFP/BHVR was continuing to seek legal action

The DMCA alone is a legal action. The only recourse is to challenge it, by giving an address where you can be served legal paperwork. As long as TFP maintains the DMCA takedown, they show willingness to go to court (otherwise the DMCA claim itself would be fraudulent).

And two wrongs don't make a right.

Shure. But I think the "he does good work" is lesser of the two crimes

And that also doesn't answer the rest of my questions.

I don't care enough to go back, and I hope you don't care about my opinions That much. But ask if you do.

 

[Mamzir]

If a creator for a game is unaware of what content an update is going to have, they probably shouldn't be making content. Just seems lazy. If he was paying attention he would've known 3.0 was the Sandbox update, not the bandit update. You think they would just add them in and not mention them anywhere? Use your brain.

But they did try. They gave him a way to not get hit with a copyright strike, and he refused. All he had to do was remove like 1 or 2 shorts, and edit the main 3.0 preview vid he made and remove like 15 minutes of it or so. Then it would've stayed up and kept making him money and avoided all of this ■■■■. But again, he refused.

They didn't try because his time costs money, this is his job, they were asking (now forcing) him to eat the cost with zero compensation. That isn't trying to reach an agreement, it's a company strong arming a creator because TFP messed up and are now embarassed. He was told the release he was given was for content just like EVERY OTHER TIME. Once again its not his fault they provided him with a incorrect build when years of previous instances was: Get build from TFP, Boot up, play and record content, release content after the provided embargo is lifted. They don't have a creation contract with JaWoodle and have no editorial rights to his content. This is solely TFP's screw up to bear. They are just mad that Ja didn't bend over backwards to appease them, plain and simple. He has ZERO obligation to contact them before he uploads.

 

[Double G]

They gave him explicit instructions to show the features of that version.

Except it was already well known, well in advance, that bandits were not going to be a part of 3.0. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I can swear TFP also mentioned that in the dev stream, which took place well before streamer weekend and also had Jawoodle as a chatter in that stream. Now, maybe he stopped paying attention when they said it though.

It also stated in the Creator Program discord that one of the requirements for Streamer Weekend was to play "vanilla" and to "showcase V3.0". How is showing something that can only be accessed via debug mode be considered "showcasing V3.0"...especially when console players cannot access the debug mode? It is reasonable to consider the console version as the pure definition of "vanilla". And even in the unintended build, I don't believe the bandits were spawning on their own.

Post automatically merged: Today at 7:37 PM

The DMCA alone is a legal action. The only recourse is to challenge it, by giving an address where you can be served legal paperwork. As long as TFP maintains the DMCA takedown, they show willingness to go to court (otherwise the DMCA claim itself would be fraudulent).


Shure. But I think the "he does good work" is lesser of the two crimes


I don't care enough to go back, and I hope you don't care about my opinions That much. But ask if you do.

The only thing further that I'm interested in communicating to you is that "Shure" is an American microphone company.

 

[theFlu]

The only thing further that I'm interested in communicating to you is that "Shure" is an American microphone company.

Shure. Fair enough

 

[LittleNightma]

i saw his video, and to me the bandits looked like and sounded like bandits in any number of mods. that implies the modders have had at least some of the bandit code for a good long while now. how did they get that and why are they not being bullied as well?

my take on this is the tfp etc are using this as free publicity. theres no such thing as bad publicity right? they are simply using age old bully boy tactics to increase their exposure, standard evil big business practice. the current major business model where companies have more rights than people and exist to screw customers and employees alike for shareholder profit whilst destroying the environment and in some cases entire countries (look into the banana industry), is just wrong. think petro companies, big pharma, supermarket duopolies, mining, ... most use the same basic business models.

they could have quietly solved this and have it go away. but no, they are making a song and dance about it. why? who does it benefit?

jawoodle has chosen to stand up to himself and not bend over and grab his ankles, and bloody good on him. if he did what they want he would suffer cost without compensation whilst big business continues to hoover up revenue left and right. so why should he cave when there seems to be no compelling legal reason to do so?

stand tall JW, dont bend over.

Because old bandit code was in the game for many years, since A15, and modders used that code to build upon.

I highly doubt this was intended to be free publicity. No one is coming out of this unscathed.

 

[gwhit]

Unless you're stupid or in bad faith, you should tell a hyperbole vs. a real comparison...

Post automatically merged: Today at 6:54 PM

Except in your narrative you conveniently left out that he refused to amicably edit his video to remove the content that wasn't supposed to be disclosed.

So he suppose to spend money to fix their error? That what boils down too, but too many people are drones in machine and have no issue with corporations ripping you off.

 

[Mamzir]

Because old bandit code was in the game for many years, since A15, and modders used that code to build upon.

I highly doubt this was intended to be free publicity. No one is coming out of this unscathed.

Then they SHOULDN"T have given him access to that build for the express purpose of making content.

 

[Mamzir]

Unless you're stupid or in bad faith, you should tell a hyperbole vs. a real comparison...

Post automatically merged: Today at 6:54 PM

Except in your narrative you conveniently left out that he refused to amicably edit his video to remove the content that wasn't supposed to be disclosed.

He did offer to edit or outright remove it, if they compensated him for his time and loss of content. If they didn't want it public, they shouldn't have sent him the wrong build, when there was an understanding that content WOULD be made from what they sent him.... You know like the multiple times they have done this in the past. It's not Jawoodle's fault they didn't "measure twice, cut once".

 

[LittleNightma]

Then they SHOULDN"T have given him access to that build for the express purpose of making content.

It was done by accident, not intentionally.

 

[Double G]

And now the game has magically gone from Very Positive recent reviews on Steam to Mixed.

Hopefully, this triggers Valve’s system and they start excluding these disingenuous negative reviews from the rating.

It would be sickening to know that anyone could be held hostage by a bunch of parasocial sycophants.