PC The big crying thread for 17.2 Economy

[Scyris]

The big problem is as you point out the discrepancy of poi costing you more than you get out. Since this specifically concerns ammunition and not other stuff I would propose that lucky looter also makes you find ammo more often and in bigger quantities
A scavenger has to find his ammo in pois and therefore must get a positive ammo balance out of a poi (either directly or through trade, but then the trader needs much more ammo). A miner on the other hand (with a low lucky looter perk) will get his ammo out of the ground and look for weapons or mods when he visits a poi. He would accept to get less ammo out of a poi than he uses up.

They unbroke stealth it seems in 17.2, sledgehammer on a stealth hit does massive damage, Get 1 point in the perk to make it hit even harder with base agi. I'm actually able to get in melee range crouched with a sledge now to hit em for a sneak attack, be even easier if I actually got the skills. 2 in skull crusher, and 2 mods in a sledge, and 3-4 str, will 1 shot normal male and female zombies, and 2 shot fatties on normal headshots. One shots any normal fat zombie on a stealth hit, might 1 shot normal ferals too. Melee costs no ammo and later game first aid bandages are a joke once you get a aloe farm going which you can do pretty early usually. I personally rarely ever use guns in a poi, even with a silencer (which btw still doesn't do a damn thing other than lower your damage), it aggros the entire damn floor and anything outside.

 

[RipClaw]

The big problem is as you point out the discrepancy of poi costing you more than you get out. Since this specifically concerns ammunition and not other stuff I would propose that lucky looter also makes you find ammo more often and in bigger quantities

Actually, I'm all about the other stuff. I mean higher quality weapons, mods and armor parts.

If I go a lot in POIs then my gamestage will rise very fast because I have to kill a lot of zombies. But with that come also stronger zombies. In order to counter these stronger zombies I need some equipment which I may not be able to make myself at this time.

If I couldn't find the equipment before and the trader doesn't sell the equipment then I will have to avoid the POIs until I can make the equipment myself to keep up with the zombies again.

I always see the whole thing from the perspective of a single player. He can't specialize early but has to fill each role at the same time.

 

[meganoth]

Actually, I'm all about the other stuff. I mean higher quality weapons, mods and armor parts.
If I go a lot in POIs then my gamestage will rise very fast because I have to kill a lot of zombies. But with that come also stronger zombies. In order to counter these stronger zombies I need some equipment which I may not be able to make myself at this time.

If I couldn't find the equipment before and the trader doesn't sell the equipment then I will have to avoid the POIs until I can make the equipment myself to keep up with the zombies again.

I always see the whole thing from the perspective of a single player. He can't specialize early but has to fill each role at the same time.

Well, I see crafting as an alternative way that you can but don't need to use.

In a well-balanced game you should have found weapons and mods good enough to kill better zombies and as a scavenger you also should have the relevant perks. I'm pretty sure even with the possible problem of Lucky Looter not being effective enough you would have looted say 30 pois before radiated zombies make up a bigger part of your POI diet. Don't tell me that you didn't find at least 3 weapons of quality 4 or 5 in roughly 30 weapon boxes. And bought another 1 or 2 from the trader with the rest of the loot. Now with a q4 weapon+mods and perks at 3 or 4 you will have no problem killing stronger zombies.

I played a SP game in 17.0 and was well equipped by the time I saw the first radiated occur in pois (but I played 90min days and got killed because I bungled up the entrance of my horde night base). I did put some points into INT (for workstations and vehicles) but did not craft any weapons or mods, I got them from raiding pois combined with quests and buying armor from the trader

I think armor is the missing link at the moment, you just don't find armor through scavenging and have to buy or craft it. Also vehicles parts (not only bicycle parts) should be more common. Getting a vehicle without crafting should be more difficult, more dependant on luck, but quite possible.

Zombies in pois can be killed by almost any weapon by the way. Low-quality weapons just mean you have to use more ammo per zombie.

 

[PoppaTot]

Low-quality weapons just mean you have to use more ammo per zombie.

The way I understand it is that quality has nothing to do with damage. Low quality means you just repair more often and have less mod slots.

 

[Cirion]

The way I understand it is that quality has nothing to do with damage. Low quality means you just repair more often and have less mod slots.

And this is why one of the first mods I downloaded was higher quality = higher damage. Yeah sure you can put more mods in it... but... meh, especially early game with no mods.

Plus, I am pretty sure the math works out such that even a fully kitted Q6 weapon now is weaker than a Q600 weapon was in A16. I was underwhelmed on the damage in A17 on fully kitted items.

 

[meganoth]

The way I understand it is that quality has nothing to do with damage. Low quality means you just repair more often and have less mod slots.

I expect concerning readers to assume that quality weapons are sought because someone wants to put mods into them. And that in general is not a problem. You will not have enough mods to stuff your second or third weapon to the hilt, but if you don't find or buy enough mods to have your main weapon fully modded you are one unlucky bastard

EDIT: RipClaw explained it in case you never heard about installed mods automatically increasing damage, but I really can't believe you don't know already. I'm assuming here you are just nit-picking :cocksure:

 

[RipClaw]

The way I understand it is that quality has nothing to do with damage. Low quality means you just repair more often and have less mod slots.

Each mod also increases the damage. Even dye increases damage.

Therefore it is an advantage to have a weapon with a higher level to accommodate more mods.

 

[PoppaTot]

I expect concerning readers to assume that quality weapons are sought because someone wants to put mods into them. And that in general is not a problem. You will not have enough mods to stuff your second or third weapon to the hilt, but if you don't find or buy enough mods to have your main weapon fully modded you are one unlucky bastard
EDIT: RipClaw explained it in case you never heard about installed mods automatically increasing damage, but I really can't believe you don't know already. I'm assuming here you are just nit-picking :cocksure:

Nah, not nitpicking at all honestly. I just wanted to clarify to any new readers that the quality levels on weapons have no damage modifiers. That was all.

 

[Ghostlight]

Actually, I'm all about the other stuff. I mean higher quality weapons, mods and armor parts.
If I go a lot in POIs then my gamestage will rise very fast because I have to kill a lot of zombies. But with that come also stronger zombies. In order to counter these stronger zombies I need some equipment which I may not be able to make myself at this time.

If I couldn't find the equipment before and the trader doesn't sell the equipment then I will have to avoid the POIs until I can make the equipment myself to keep up with the zombies again.

I always see the whole thing from the perspective of a single player. He can't specialize early but has to fill each role at the same time.

You don't have to avoid POIs, that is nonsense. You can tell which ones are deadly and which are not. Avoid the deadly ones until you can keep up? Nothing wrong with having some POIs that you fear to enter till much later. Adds to the immersion and tension.

 

[RipClaw]

You don't have to avoid POIs, that is nonsense. You can tell which ones are deadly and which are not. Avoid the deadly ones until you can keep up? Nothing wrong with having some POIs that you fear to enter till much later. Adds to the immersion and tension.

I disagree with you. You can't see whether a POI is deadly or not from the outside. If you know the house types you can estimate from the experience how many zombies you can expect inside but the POIs can also surprise you. I play on the Navezgane map and there is an inconspicuous wooden house in the desert. From the outside you don't expect more than 10-15 zombies total inside. But under this house is an underground dungeon.

You can see the building in this video from Capp00:

At 3:44 you can see the underground bunker below.

But to get back to the subject.

I myself haven't stopped going into POIs but I've heard from other players who have done this and I understand it.

I adjusted my approach and improved my equipment but without traders it would not have been possible. Most of the armor I currently wear I bought from traders because I couldn't make it myself at that time and the armor I found in POIs was at best level 2 with only one slot. That's why I don't like it if somebody want to reduce the possibilities for the player to buy the equipment if they don't balance it with a better loot in the POIs at the same time.

At the moment I don't go much into POIs anymore as I mainly work on my new base to get some space and some more order in my storage.

 

[Ghostlight]

I disagree with you. You can't see whether a POI is deadly or not from the outside.

Well I can. Maybe I've played A17 too much and recognize most them by now? Any building with an entry way that is not a standard front door perhaps with some flimsy metal nailed to it is a no-no. Scaffolding, holes in ground, jumping in from the nearby garage, inviting windows at the back with lamps shining on them. Avoid if in any doubt.

 

[madmole]

That sounds interesting. Will we be able to hire people to help us in this attack? Sounds way harder than a blood moon horde. Rick had to ally himself with bunches of people to defend against Neagan after all...

If you want to pay your steam friends to help you thats fine by me lol.

 

[PoppaTot]

If you want to pay your steam friends to help you thats fine by me lol.

LUL, I think he was asking if we are going to have NPCs that we can hire.

 

[madmole]

And this is why one of the first mods I downloaded was higher quality = higher damage. Yeah sure you can put more mods in it... but... meh, especially early game with no mods.
Plus, I am pretty sure the math works out such that even a fully kitted Q6 weapon now is weaker than a Q600 weapon was in A16. I was underwhelmed on the damage in A17 on fully kitted items.

Thats because there are perks too that inflate damage the most. Add bleeding or stun or AOE knockdown to it and its even more OP. You can't compare things out of context.

 

[Cirion]

LUL, I think he was asking if we are going to have NPCs that we can hire.

Yeah, I'm not literally paying anyone lol. I meant pay NPCs with in game coins

 

[RipClaw]

Well I can. Maybe I've played A17 too much and recognize most them by now? Any building with an entry way that is not a standard front door perhaps with some flimsy metal nailed to it is a no-no. Scaffolding, holes in ground, jumping in from the nearby garage, inviting windows at the back with lamps shining on them. Avoid if in any doubt.

Thanks for the info.

To be honest, I have never paid so much attention to these differences. But I know that an open door mostly means that you find yourself in the basement right after entering the house.

 

[DatDamnDutchie]

Damn and then to think people were surviving in 7DTD WITHOUT traders not that long ago... I for one am happy we dont need to use the trader much, sounds like a boring game to me.

 

[madmole]

LUL, I think he was asking if we are going to have NPCs that we can hire.

And I answered him with the correct response.

 

[madmole]

Yeah, I'm not literally paying anyone lol. I meant pay NPCs with in game coins

No we're not Bethesda... yet. Coding in followers in a fully destroyable world is a nightmare, and would subtract from the total entities alive in the world and the people (in general) want more zombies and more players not crappy NPCs that get stuck on stuff. I'd love to have followers but until we get believable bandits its not on the table at all.

 

[Royal Deluxe]

No we're not Bethesda... yet. Coding in followers in a fully destroyable world is a nightmare, and would subtract from the total entities alive in the world and the people (in general) want more zombies and more players not crappy NPCs that get stuck on stuff. I'd love to have followers but until we get believable bandits its not on the table at all.

No cash, no compagnions, as next you say no behemoth.

[fool around warning]

(i still hope for settler Survivors you need to care about in a future far far away, but the 3 points above are ok for me)