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teragon maps

hmmmm. Looking in 7days to die/data/prefabs/RWGTiles it seems each tile has 6 parts. 

.blocks.nim

.ins

.jpg

.mesh 

.tts

.xml

all prefixed by the tile name for example rwg_tile_commercial_cap

is there a tool to generate these files? Reading the xml file there is a structure to the file that seems so far to be the same with the variations being where each poi can spawn on this tile.. 

 facinating to see how it works.. easier to try to figure out the rural tiles with less stuff on them lol. this is the easier part the other files i have no idea of except the jpg of course . its a picture of the tile. 

 
hmmmm. Looking in 7days to die/data/prefabs/RWGTiles it seems each tile has 6 parts. 

.blocks.nim

.ins

.jpg

.mesh 

.tts

.xml

all prefixed by the tile name for example rwg_tile_commercial_cap

is there a tool to generate these files? Reading the xml file there is a structure to the file that seems so far to be the same with the variations being where each poi can spawn on this tile.. 

 facinating to see how it works.. easier to try to figure out the rural tiles with less stuff on them lol. this is the easier part the other files i have no idea of except the jpg of course . its a picture of the tile. 
Tiles are made in the POI Editor in the game just like all other POI.  There should be a few YouTube videos about making tiles.

 
Most real life cities and suburbs are designed on a grid.


That's certainly true in flat lands, but not true in mountains or hills. Much of AZ would support the grids.

To get a nice blend of grid vs suburb, I think you'd need a world generator to do something like set aside every 3rd row and column of Tiles to be nothing except intersection tiles.

how hard is it to make a tile?


Raimus describes it accurately. It can be really easy unless you want to get into some really nice filler between the POI markers. A very basic tile would be POI markers, roads, and trees. A Gateway Tile often involves some Parts to integrate with different types of roads, though that doesn't always work in RWG. I assume that's an A21 bug.

The filename is important with Tiles as it indicates the District and Road configuration.

 
Tile design is very intricate.  There are alot of things to consider such as how many POI markers can fit into one and what variation of road placement can you have. 

For example, it is generally bad to design alot of roads on the edge of a tile since it creates strange parallel roads when 2 such tiles would happen to be placed next to each other.

 
Tile design is very intricate.  There are alot of things to consider such as how many POI markers can fit into one and what variation of road placement can you have. 

For example, it is generally bad to design alot of roads on the edge of a tile since it creates strange parallel roads when 2 such tiles would happen to be placed next to each other.
Of course, we also have strange situations with vanilla tiles already.  An unfortunate side effect of tiles when there are so few of them is that designers like making unique tiles and the tiles often don't really merge well with one another.  Numbers of lanes changing repeatedly along a road, road borders not always lining up between districts, crazy corners in odd places, guard rails between tiles that get placed facing one another....

I think I would prefer having more tiles, even if they aren't "perfect" just to help diversify the towns and allow for more variety in how things can look.  But I do agree that tiles need to have some kind of cohesion between one another so the town looks at least somewhat okay.  At some point, Teragon will offer the ability to dynamically place tiles with specific restrictions on which ones can attach to each tile.  This can allow for much more variety without randomization messing up the overall look.  For example, you'll be able to have boulevards that don't randomly go from one lane to two and back again over and over or raised roads that don't suddenly become not raised, etc.  But that's down the road a bit.  It would be great to have something like that in RWG as well but I kind of don't think it'll happen.

 
Of course, we also have strange situations with vanilla tiles already.  An unfortunate side effect of tiles when there are so few of them is that designers like making unique tiles and the tiles often don't really merge well with one another.  Numbers of lanes changing repeatedly along a road, road borders not always lining up between districts, crazy corners in odd places, guard rails between tiles that get placed facing one another....

I think I would prefer having more tiles, even if they aren't "perfect" just to help diversify the towns and allow for more variety in how things can look.  But I do agree that tiles need to have some kind of cohesion between one another so the town looks at least somewhat okay.  At some point, Teragon will offer the ability to dynamically place tiles with specific restrictions on which ones can attach to each tile.  This can allow for much more variety without randomization messing up the overall look.  For example, you'll be able to have boulevards that don't randomly go from one lane to two and back again over and over or raised roads that don't suddenly become not raised, etc.  But that's down the road a bit.  It would be great to have something like that in RWG as well but I kind of don't think it'll happen.


The history of RWG maps is an interesting one.  I remember back in the days before tiles were introduced how POIs were placed strictly by code in a grid and felt very disconnected / unnatural.

What I appreciate about the tile system is it eased some of the responsibility off of programming to create a natural looking city scape through code and pushed some of that responsibility onto the level designers.

Although still not perfect I feel it was a huge improvement.  We have some new RWG and tile updates coming in A22.  Stay tuned. 😎

 
The history of RWG maps is an interesting one.  I remember back in the days before tiles were introduced how POIs were placed strictly by code in a grid and felt very disconnected / unnatural.

What I appreciate about the tile system is it eased some of the responsibility off of programming to create a natural looking city scape through code and pushed some of that responsibility onto the level designers.

Although still not perfect I feel it was a huge improvement.  We have some new RWG and tile updates coming in A22.  Stay tuned. 😎
Don't get me wrong, I love the tiles.  :)

 
i agree but there should be some limitation on how many of the same tile can be put in a row.  I had a map recently where the same tile/ farm was 4 in a row along the street...

I'm too old and lazy to learn how to make tiles.. leave that up to younger people.. was just curious what was involved...

Teragon 49-1.jpg

this is the new Tassie map i made... nice wide rivers.... i wish that 7DTD didnt let the air drops land on water. that would be a nice QOL improvement!

image.jpeg

another view of the river... 7DTD can be quite beautiful!

 
i agree but there should be some limitation on how many of the same tile can be put in a row.  I had a map recently where the same tile/ farm was 4 in a row along the street...

I'm too old and lazy to learn how to make tiles.. leave that up to younger people.. was just curious what was involved...

View attachment 30296

this is the new Tassie map i made... nice wide rivers.... i wish that 7DTD didnt let the air drops land on water. that would be a nice QOL improvement!

View attachment 30297

another view of the river... 7DTD can be quite beautiful!
The problem is that there is currently only one vanilla tile of each type in each district (with maybe an exception or two).  So if you have a few intersections in a row that are the same district, you'd have the same tile in a row.  The same for most other types (caps aren't likely to be in a row).  Having additional tiles available can greatly improve this.  Just adding ZZTong's modlet will have a big impact on the variety you see and if you add some more custom tiles, it'll help even more.  By what LazMan said, it sounds like A22 will come with some more tiles (unless he meant just changes to tiles) so that will also help.

That being said, the next release of Teragon has the new parameters I mentioned above relating to breaking up districts and providing variations in districts.  Although that will definitely be more noticeable in larger towns, it should also help in smaller towns (maybe about 12-20 size) to break things up a bit.  By having the districts not quite so homogenous, you'll get more variety in tiles that are in a row.  The downside with smaller towns if you use these parameters is that the districts might not seem quite as cohesive as you might like.  So there is definitely some give and take with it for what looks best.  Adding more custom tiles will still be the best option.

It also depends on the tiles.  When you see something like two vanilla industrial caps next to one another, they are going to look very similar because they only have (IIRC) one large prefab on them.  There are a few different prefabs that can go on them (the various factories), but it's still just one building and then the tile.  So they can look very repetitive.  On the other hand, if you have two corner tiles of the same district next to one another, they usually don't look too repetitive because there are many prefabs on them and you'll get a lot of different ones so it doesn't look the same.  So tiles that have more prefabs on them shouldn't look quite as repetitive as those with only one or two prefabs.  But even so, more tiles is best.

As far as your example, if it was a Teragon map, you shouldn't have had the same farm multiple times in a row.  Are you sure they weren't different farms?  Those can look very similar to one another.  The default distance in Teragon between duplicate POI if using the default presets is 300m.  So as long as a POI doesn't have a different distance set, they should be a minimum of 2 tiles apart (one tile between).  There are exceptions, of course.  If nothing can go in a spot while following the distance restrictions and other restrictions that you might have set, Teragon will fill the spot with something even though it normally shouldn't go there unless you're using the enforce properties for that POI.  But for that to happen to the same prefab 4 times in a row is pretty unlikely.  I won't say it can't happen, but it shouldn't.

Note: If you're using a preset that is an edited version of an older default preset, you may not have the default distance parameters in your POI Property List.  If you do not have those, you may get POI that are on repeating tiles because the normal distance without that is something pretty small.  So that might also be the cause.  You might want to copy/paste the POI Property List from the current version of the default presets into your preset if you didn't make changes to your POI Property List to make sure you have all the current parameters.  That, or start a new preset that is based on the current default presets instead of editing a preset you've been using/editing for a long time.

 
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it was a RWG map not teragon.. if i remember it was the first game of the new a21. i wanted to see the funpimps rwg before i started a teragon map.

i am also not American so a lot of things that seem off to me could just be the way Americans do things??  like driving on the wrong side of the road...lol joke dont get your knickers in a twist...lol

 
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Riamus said:
I think I would prefer having more tiles, even if they aren't "perfect" just to help diversify the towns and allow for more variety in how things can look.


I agree. What I refer to "Tile Content", structures and landmarks built onto the Tile, can lead to the Flintstone effect. That is, you can keep passing the same lake and dogleg in the road, again and again. The same round-about, the same cul-de-sac, the same overpass... I noticed it the most in the Gateway Tiles.

When you see something like two vanilla industrial caps next to one another, they are going to look very similar because they only have (IIRC) one large prefab on them.


Yes, exactly that. From memory, a rural T when the rural district is used to wrap around a city or town.

Laz Man said:
We have some new RWG and tile updates coming in A22.


Oh cool, I'm looking forward to seeing them.

Just adding ZZTong's modlet will have a big impact on the variety you see and if you add some more custom tiles, it'll help even more. 


Yes, I fell in love with Tiles. I got into POIs because I wanted more map variety and Tiles were a pretty significant addition. I'm just getting to the point where the Gateway Tiles don't repeat very often on a large map.

The default distance in Teragon between duplicate POI if using the default presets is 300m.


That's the default DuplicateRepeatDistance in RWG too.

like driving on the wrong side of the road


Heh, I've heard that mentioned before. @stallionsden In 7d2d you can drive on any side of the road you want. Do you remember the old Car Wars slogan: "Don't like my driving? Stay off the sidewalk."

 
This is the best Nuke in a city maps I've made so far. With my wasteland biomes tweaks there are a lot more broken buildings and fewer trees.

It just feels more setting appropriate
image.png
image.png


 
Update for the next release...

image.png

Scale Height Map can now be used on specific biomes.  Depending on how you do your settings, you can get some pretty interesting transitions between biomes.  In this example, I scaled snow and wasteland up a lot and so I got these cliffs.  Not exactly what you want on your actual map but it shows what you can do.  With less scaling, you can still get specific biomes to be raised higher than others or lower mountains in specific biomes.

Below are 2 more examples, where I used separate Scale Height Map commands for each biome, with them scaling the biome up most for the highest biome and less for each lower biome.  I also increased the smoothing for the biome transition area.  The effect you get is a slight change in elevation between biomes.  With a bit of adjustment, this has potential to make for some interesting maps.

image.png

image.png

image.png

Icons will now appear next to your selected command and any related commands.  In this screenshot, I have a heightmap command selected, so all heightmap commands show the mountain icon next to them.  This makes it easy to find all related commands.  Different commands have different icons.

image.png

New command: Create Single Town.  This new command lets you create a town in a specific location.  It is not a replacement for using a Mask Map but gives you an alternate way to place towns in specific locations.  Mask Maps let you specify where towns can be placed and they will be placed only within the bounds of the mask.  This command lets you specify a starting point for the town and it will then generate a town in that area but the town is not confined to a specific location the way it would be with Mask Maps.  You can select the town type that you want to place with this command.

image.png

New parameter for Create Towns allows you to balance the number of each tile variant you have on your map.  Tile variants are tiles that share the same district and the same tile type.  For example, if you have 5 tiles for the Residential district that are Corner tiles, this parameter will attempt to place an equal number of each of those 5 variants on your map.  If unchecked, this is entirely random, making it possible to have a lot of one variant and none of another variant.  Prior versions were random (i.e. unchecked).  This will likely help those of you who are using custom tiles.  It won't make much difference if you're only using vanilla tiles as there are not usually any variants to choose from, though it sounds like that may change in 1.0/A22.

New parameters weight_outskirt and weight_center for the Town Property List allow you to have more or less of specific districts in the center or outskirt area of your town.  For example, if you have 3 districts (commercial, downtown, industrial) in the center of your town, you would normally get about the same number of tiles for each district.  If you choose to weight the downtown district at twice the others, you will see about twice the downtown tiles in your town than the other districts.

These are in addition to the new items I mentioned above.  And stamps are almost ready for initial testing, so we are getting closer to having them ready.  There are also some new things that are being looked at that may or may not appear in the next release.  These include creating plateaus, placing rivers along the transition area between biomes, so each biome is separated by a river, and automatically filling any basins (depressions) on your map with water, regardless of what elevation it is at on your map, if it meats certain criteria.  So there are a lot of things to look forward to in the next release and the following releases.

 
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A quick example of rivers being placed at biome boundaries...image.png

This could make fore some interesting maps but requires some trial and error to get something that will work well in the game.  Many biome transitions go straight through mountains with noise biomes, which end up looking bad.  If you use environmental biomes, you can end up with a circle river around a mountain.  A handcrafted biome map could be the best use for this option.

 
image.jpeg

firts attempt with the new 0.50.7 using my old nice rivers preset... i like the little character at the spawn points...

#D previewer isnt working.. have downloaded the latest and installed here C:/Teragon/Teragon Previewer/Teragon Previewer.exe . When i press F4 i just get a black screen.

 
View attachment 31397

firts attempt with the new 0.50.7 using my old nice rivers preset... i like the little character at the spawn points...

#D previewer isnt working.. have downloaded the latest and installed here C:/Teragon/Teragon Previewer/Teragon Previewer.exe . When i press F4 i just get a black screen.
Did you add Update Preview 3D to your preset?  You can test the previewer easily by loading up the Preview default preset and selecting an existing map.

 
i added the 3d previewer to the preset and did another map. 

i got an image of the map that appeared to have 3d models of the poi's in view but i had absolutely no control. couldnt move it or zoom out. no keyboard commands did anything......   i just realised i didnt click on capture the mouse... DOH ! 

couldnt log in to discord either... 

 
i added the 3d previewer to the preset and did another map. 

i got an image of the map that appeared to have 3d models of the poi's in view but i had absolutely no control. couldnt move it or zoom out. no keyboard commands did anything......   i just realised i didnt click on capture the mouse... DOH ! 

couldnt log in to discord either... 
Yeah, you need to use Capture Mouse.  Everything worked after doing that?  Btw, if your computer can handle it, use Page Up multiple times to increase view distance of the POI.  It looks better, imo.  :)

What was the issue with Discord?

 
computer is a AMD 5800X ,32GB ram. AMD XT6800 graphics. so should handle it..

discord wouldnt accept my login kept telling me the username or password was wrong... they were not wrong...

 
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