Suggestions Regarding the Map

[Blue mame]

So, lost in translation. Got it. Moving on.

Picked it back up from initial launch in alpha with A21 and, while the layering on of RPG elements doesn't seem to be going over all that well with those who've been with it from the beginning, I think it's in a pretty good state, atm. I doubt the downtown performance issues will ever be wrestled to the ground, but it's the basics I'd be most worried about now, just to get it in the can, so to speak. And, by basic, I mean a few missing animations, replacement of placeholders and stuff like that. 3.0, 4.0 are most important now, I would think, but it could definitely use a once over of major systems when those are completed, including RWG, imo.

I still maintain A21's RWG was leaps and bounds better in the variety department as well as providing those mountain peak and valley views that weren't at all bad for Voxel. If I knew how to do it, I'd roll it back to A21 without the Neopolitan ice cream option and all that jazz, though I'm sure a good many appreciate the opportunity to specify which biome is dead center and won't give up options for all the tea in China.

I'd blame console for restricting the game as heavily as it has been restricted if that weren't passe.

Believe me, the limitations on consoles are absolutely a console-specific issue; it seems they simply don't allow for any modifications. While this approach works exceptionally well for genres like FPS games, it falls somewhat short for open-world titles. Open-world games inherently thrive on the use of third-party software or mods—whether to enhance the overall experience or to explore entirely different worlds through various modifications. However, the inability to modify game files on consoles appears to be a hard-coded restriction of the platform itself—something for which TFP cannot be held responsible. lol

Post automatically merged: Mar 16, 2026

I think you've misinterpreted my comments. If there's translation involved then that's certainly understandable. My apologies if something I said didn't translate well.

Please accept this belated apology; I hope you can forgive my rash behavior earlier. When I saw that description at the time, I completely blew up. It was you who alerted me to the issue with the translator. Thanks again, and my apologies.

 

[zztong]

Please accept this belated apology; I hope you can forgive my rash behavior earlier. When I saw that description at the time, I completely blew up. It was you who alerted me to the issue with the translator. Thanks again, and my apologies.

No worries. It happens all the time on message boards. I certainly enjoy having more voices and opinions on the boards, even if I might have a different view. By all means express yourself.

 

[Riamus]

Does this mean there will be no more exciting major updates to look forward to?

Bandits will still be a major update. The game options will be a major update to many people who want an easy way to change how their game plays, especially for console players. And even the story may be considered at least a significant update for some. But if it's not listed as something that is planned, then no... we aren't likely to see much in the way of exciting major updates. Take a look at the roadmap they posted a couple of years ago to see what they have left for plans for the game (ignore the dates). That doesn't mean there won't be some updates that may be major for some people or that they won't decide to add in some unexpected major update, but mostly what is listed is what is left.

 

[rebeldj1]

can anyone let me know how to get better randomized maps on RWG? thank you!

 

[Riamus]

can anyone let me know how to get better randomized maps on RWG? thank you!

RWG has fairly strict limits on randomization. If you want to edit the rwgmixer, you can change things up. Otherwise, you can use hand crafted maps or maps made with a third party map generator like Teragon.

 

[zztong]

can anyone let me know how to get better randomized maps on RWG? thank you!

I'd love to know details about what would make the maps better for you...? Please elaborate. Maybe there are existing options or maybe you'll fuel some new ideas.

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

A21's RWG mixer rolled interesting maps compared to current version wherein towns/cities and traders are locked down so tight, all the maps look the same. Only difference is size and arrangement of said towns and cities, which is uniform.

-- A21's rolled a map with a cabin in between two nearby towns and a trader on the border of each near the cabin. Towns were so close together, it was just a hop, skip and a jump to both. (Towns are generally pretty far apart from one another now, rather than a mixture of near and far.)
-- A21's rolled a map with an Eye Candy factory right down the road and around a curve from Jen (when Jen could appear in the Forest biome), Jen's compound touching the edge surrounded by a few farms; and a map with Hugh's compound adjacent to a city's "downtown," but not so close that it was downtown. Hop, skip and a jump from an office complex.
-- A21's rolled maps with interesting views from hills and mountaintops. Fairly begged for hills and mountaintops to be used for a base of operations with runs into a nearby town. Haven't seen an interesting view since.

Etc. and so on. You'll not see any such maps now. Maps have been made as grid-like as towns and cities and, therefore, variety-less. No more nice surprises. Also, I don't buy the argument that only traders have the sense to stay away from the cities and only the player dumb enough to set up permanent residence in them. In A21, traders were sometimes close to, but not in cities and towns as well as a good distance from them.

In short, A21's produced more natural-looking maps.

 

[zztong]

A21's RWG mixer rolled...

I think you mean RWG and not the rwgmixer.xml file, but I'm not sure. I believe you could make an A21-like rwgmixer.xml configuration, but I don't think that gets you want you want... (details follow)

A21's rolled a map with a cabin in between two nearby towns and a trader on the border of each near the cabin. Towns were so close together, it was just a hop, skip and a jump to both. (Towns are generally pretty far apart from one another now, rather than a mixture of near and far.)

I don't understand this. The cabin would be a Wilderness POI. Those would still get placed randomly between towns. The rwgmixer.xml file wouldn't have controlled that and the current RWG code still does that.

By towns I think you mean settlements (Cities, Towns, CountryTowns, WesternTown) and I think you're right in that RWG didn't divide the map into a grid of tiles when planning the map's layout, but that's not in rwgmixer.xml either. Note that there are two different meanings to the term "Tiles" when we talk of RWG. One is RWG's planning of the overall map layout and the other is a POI-like entity that describes a specific layout of 150x150 settlement content.

I could be wrong, but I think RWG's current approach to dividing the map up relates to RWG's performance today. That is, you get a map in 1-2 minutes now instead of 5-10. If that's the reason for your observation, then it isn't in rwgmixer.xml either, but in RWG's code instead.

If it was performance related, that's an interesting trade off. TFP ate criticism for slow map generation, so I can understand making changes to improve map generation times. Personally, I don't mind waiting for a good map, but that's just me, though I do enjoy being able to make 5-10 maps for testing in the same amount of time it used to take.

A21's rolled a map with an Eye Candy factory right down the road and around a curve from Jen (when Jen could appear in the Forest biome), Jen's compound touching the edge surrounded by a few farms; and a map with Hugh's compound adjacent to a city's "downtown," but not so close that it was downtown. Hop, skip and a jump from an office complex.

I'm not sure I understand if the placement of whichever factory you mean is the point or the placement of traders is the point. I had to go back and look at my modlet for historical context. In A21 there were many gateway tiles possible (some of which can have a trader) and if I recall correctly one of the traders had a small chance of being placed in the Industrial district. I thought it was Bob, but it could have been Hugh. I think you'll need some alternative trader POIs and maybe some supporting city Tiles for this, then a change to rwgmixer.xml. For instance, the current Hugh trader will only land on a Gateway Tile.

The factory thing I want to think is still possible today, but there's not a lot of detail in your description.

A21's rolled maps with interesting views from hills and mountaintops. Fairly begged for hills and mountaintops to be used for a base of operations with runs into a nearby town. Haven't seen an interesting view since.

I don't know how rwgmixer.xml will help or hurt this. I don't know how the placement of hills has changed, but it isn't in rwgmixer.xml. I thought that was all handled by stamps.

Etc. and so on. You'll not see any such maps now. Maps have been made as grid-like as towns and cities and, therefore, variety-less. No more nice surprises. Also, I don't buy the argument that only traders have the sense to stay away from the cities and only the player dumb enough to set up permanent residence in them. In A21, traders were sometimes close to, but not in cities and towns as well as a good distance from them.

In short, A21's produced more natural-looking maps.

I can't debate your opinions or observations and I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

For instance, I disagree about "suprises" based on a feature newer than A21 with Gateway Tile placement. Those tiles are rolled into road connections now and also the only place where traders can land. You get some lovely little t-junction and intersections out in the wild now where roads meet that you didn't get in A21.

On the other hand, trader placement is tied to Gateway Tile placement, which makes trader placement much more predictable. They will always be on the edge of town or on one of those road junctions out in the wild. To break that pattern going back to A21 won't help. You have to change the traders and probably make more settlement Tile variants to support them, which is possible, then likely some related configuration in the rwgmixer.xml file would be needed.

I can perhaps agree that there could be a bit more variety in the settlement Tile layouts from A21, but not in POI selection which has gotten bigger as the versions have progressed. RWG was probably more "daring" with it's selection of Tiles; that's not rwgmixer.xml though. That is, the RWG code into 2.5 had a flaw in that it strongly prefered intersection Tiles to the exclusion of others. That is said to be fixed in 2.6.

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

I don't understand this. The cabin would be a Wilderness POI. Those would still get placed randomly between towns. The...current RWG code still does that.

RWG it is, then. I do not mean the rwgmixer.xml file, else I would have written that.

The cabin was placed randomly between towns...that were exceptionally close together. I could see both from the cabin. (And it looked perfectly natural.) The trader compounds themselves were attached to each, their sides facing the sides of the cabin. Difference today is that towns and cities are so uniformly spaced and far apart, that can't happen.

(Towns are generally pretty far apart from one another now, rather than a mixture of near and far.)

I could be wrong, but I think RWG's current approach to dividing the map up relates to RWG's performance today.

If that's the case, it's prevented the kind of natural-looking placements I've described. City, town and trader placement are so uniform now, RWG generated maps all look alike. Biome placement can be different; size can be different; but they all look the same otherwise, i.e. town distance from one another. You just don't get the kind of interesting placements and combinations described. Now, it's town/city; nearby trader down some measure of road; town far down the road; etc. It's uniform.

I'm not sure I understand if the placement of whichever factory you mean is the point or the placement of traders is the point. I had to go back and look at my modlet for historical context. In A21 there were many gateway tiles possible (some of which can have a trader) and if I recall correctly one of the traders had a small chance of being placed in the Industrial district. I thought it was Bob, but it could have been Hugh. I think you'll need some alternative trader POIs and maybe some supporting city Tiles for this, then a change to rwgmixer.xml. For instance, the current Hugh trader will only land on a Gateway Tile.

The placement of both is the point. Pardon if I don't know which does which, stamps or what have you, but Jen's compound sat between two perimeter tiles. Whether both were farms or one was a farm and one a house, I don't remember. But it was between them. Turn right out of her compound, pass the house on her right side, round a curve with a Bear and Coal on the right, a road to the right, and the Eye Candy factory was sitting by itself on the right. Across the road in front of it, was a small, country Pass N Gas with POIs across from it around a bend and further down the road. Across the road not taken from its left side (leading into the wilderness) was the Bear and Land Coal sitting by itself. (Had to pass both it and the turn onto that road to get there.) There was empty space to the right side of the Eye Candy and the beginning of (I want to say) a downtown.

the placement of hills has changed... I thought that was all handled by stamps.

Probably is, if you think so. I haven't made a mod and don't know the precise terms, but I've never seen an interesting view again. One map I rolled had two mountain ranges with an actual valley between them. From the spawn area, I took a trip across the mountain range to get to the other side and, eventually, a trader (Jen) near the opposite range to whom to turn in Tier I odd jobs to complete it. The mountain range on Jen's side had a fairly steep (but far from vertical) road that led to her town. From the top of the mountain, you could see the town she was in to the left; the mountain range across the valley I'd had to cross (a natural looking distance away) in front; distant towns/cities on the right and wilderness behind. It looked like Maggie Valley in NC. except the valley Jen was in wasn't the same valley I'd crossed, which was clear of POIs unless there was a wilderness POI or two I'm forgetting.

On the other hand, trader placement is tied to Gateway Tile placement, which makes trader placement much more predictable.... You have to change the traders and probably make more settlement Tile variants to support them, which is possible, then likely some related configuration in the rwgmixer.xml file would be needed.

Whatever it takes or back to how it was. How it was doesn't prevent the crossroads you speak of. Point is: traders are always sitting off by themselves a short distance away now whereas there was a mixture of placement adjacent to a town or city; a short distance away; and further away.

I can't debate your opinions or observations

Hopefully, though, you can imagine the pictures I have in my head as I've described them. The landscape was much more natural. (Except, of course, for those practically vertical side road beginnings that can result in the mountains. Could use some gradation there.)

 

[zztong]

The placement of both is the point. Pardon if I don't know which does which, stamps or what have you, but Jen's compound sat between two perimeter tiles

Point is: traders are always sitting off by themselves a short distance away now whereas there was a mixture of placement adjacent to a town or city; a short distance away; and further away.

I can't reconcile that observation to A21. It had Gateway Tiles. When we talk of placement related to settlements, it has always been where a road connected to the settlement, adjacent and connected to one Rural Tile for Towns/Cities and probably either a CountryResidential or CountryTown Tile for a CountryTown. Western towns don't get Gateway tiles, so no traders there.

In A20 there was only one kind of Gateway Tile and it always seemed like a "last-minute" effort, in that the trader POIs were all different sizes and the tile itself had few embellishments.

But, I'm pretty sure I could make a mod to bring traders into cities, done with just custom POIs and custom Tiles. I'd have to think about if there was enough demand for that. (It would be a chunk of work and planning.)

Have you looked at Teragon for world generation instead of using RWG?

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

I'm pretty sure I could make a mod to bring traders into cities, done with just custom POIs and custom Tiles. I'd have to think about if there was enough demand for that. (It would be a chunk of work and planning.)

Interested only in the aesthetics of the base game. I've never "played" 7DTD on a regular basis just to play it and probably never will. I've only tested normal gameplay from the POV of (especially) new players, end game only once. RWG today is rigid and unnatural. A21 was not rigid and (when fortune favored) produced maps that were actually interesting, with interesting placements and combinations.

Have you looked at Teragon for world generation instead of using RWG?

Players of the vanilla game and, especially, console (as they can't use mods), shouldn't have to use Teragon and other third party apps to get the kind of interesting maps I was seeing in A21. Should it not change back (from rigid and uninteresting to less rigid and interesting) is the only reason I suggested a mod in the mod forum. A mod shouldn't be required for RWG to produce interesting maps.

it has always been where a road connected to the settlement,

Edit: Forget settlements for a second. Vendors haven't always been connected even to them. In A21, I saw vendors out in the wilderness on the main road all by themselves except for maybe a diner across the way. A rest stop would be just as appropriate because it felt like a rest stop along the way. (Turned out, what was "connected" to it in odd jobs was that goofy Western-looking town/movie set, whatever it is. It was located far behind it off the main road. If the trader hadn't pointed it out, I'd never have known it was there.)

 

[zztong]

Forget settlements for a second. Vendors haven't always been connected even to them. In A21, I saw vendors out in the wilderness on the main road all by themselves except for maybe a diner across the way. A rest stop would be just as appropriate because it felt like a rest stop along the way.

At this point it is pretty easy for me to mix up A20 and A21. A20 was the first with Tiles and A21 stepped us up into what we have today feature wise in terms of POI and Tile placement. After A21 you largely get RWG code changes. The history is kind of smearing together for me. I guess I'm "living in the now" in terms of keeping track of features.

I may be mixing up my versions and what came with what, but Gateway Tiles can exist at crossroads and Traders can spawn there. That's a current feature. That is, the same Gateway Tiles that manage a transition of a road between Wilderness and a Settlement are the same ones RWG can place at a crossroad. A crossroad being my term for where RWG decides some roads needed to come together (or a road diverge).

What I do remember is some push-back from players that I want to say came in 1.0. I know traders at crossroads were not popular with some players because they weren't conveniently located near quest POIs and people disliked having to travel over 1 km to get to their quests. I don't recall if that led to a change, but if there was a change I'm not sure it is in the Tile/POI configuration where I could mess with it.

Personally, I think there's a number of variations that different players would like. I, for instance, might like traders only in the wilderness. I have from time to time made maps with only 1 of each trader. There are people who want no traders. Some have wanted traders in the settlements, not on the edges.

Players of the vanilla game and, especially, console (as they can't use mods), shouldn't have to use Teragon and other third party apps to get the kind of interesting maps I was seeing in A21.

I can agree with that sentiment. The complication is that there won't be consensus on what a "good" map is. Everyone has tastes. My understanding (perhaps incorrect) is that Faatal picked up RWG to work on in his spare time after Kinyajuu passed and clearly Faatal is a core developer on many features, so time/effort on maps is likely facing a competition of interests and needs.

Thus, I mentioned Teragon as that's a different team external to TFP and it gets active development. It offers a great many map generation options. While not an option for consoles, it is an option for PCs if you are so inclined and able.

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

I think there's a number of variations that different players would like. I, for instance, might like traders only in the wilderness. I have from time to time made maps with only 1 of each trader. There are people who want no traders. Some have wanted traders in the settlements, not on the edges.

A21's RWG covered that with its adjacent, near and far possibilities. If that was a player's major concern, they could just roll maps until they got one with a distance they liked.

The complication is that there won't be consensus on what a "good" map is.

I didn't say "good." I said interesting. There will never be a hand-crafted map coming out of RWG. Ergo, none of them will ever be perfect or satisfy everyone.

My understanding (perhaps incorrect) is that Faatal picked up RWG to work on in his spare time after Kinyajuu passed and clearly Faatal is a core developer on many features, so time/effort on maps is likely facing a competition of interests and needs.

No doubt. Poor faatal. Does he have to do everything?

can anyone let me know how to get better randomized maps on RWG? thank you!

Working on it.