Story Mode Controversy --REDUX

The reason it's important is because if you either think all such depictions are bad and I can write off this thread as being unrealistic in expectations or you don't agree they are bad and you are biased in your ideology and you are not holding everyone to the same standard.

I have no issues deciding whether something breaks my moral compass and is racist. I take into account motive, context and other factors such as time and place. For example a stand up comedy special with taboo topics might be offensive or racist but in the context of a stand up comedy it's purpose isn't to deride. Also I do not agree the story of a Native American that owns a casino is racist or bad in itself nor if he is an antagonist. I think such notions of lazy Native Americans are antiquated and an opinion wouldn't form or change due to their portrayal in 7D2D.

I understand what you are saying. I just don't agree with the premise.
my guy, if the only answers you will accept are answers you've already decided are worthless and therefore are ones in which you've "won" preemptively then you aren't looking for answers you are looking for justification.

The thread stems from ideology. It's the entire point.
if this is your honest feeling on the matter then anything i or anyone else says will be too insubstantive to convince you to change your mind.
 
It was like "the wave" that spectators at sports events often do to show support or celebrate a great play. The Tomahawk Chop was a similar type of move that fans of the Kansas City Chiefs and Atlanta Braves would do and because of criticism, the action has been downplayed and modified. They used to beat drums and do warlike chants and basically act like stereotypical Indian warriors.
ok well it being sports is certainly why i was out of the loop. the only time i was ever invested as an adult was right after old lizzie died and the lads cheering during the rovers and djurgårdens game decided to bring it up and i know for an absolute fact that telling what i thought of it would get me kicked from this thread so i will leave it at that x''D
 
It's not that the Duke is a "bad guy." It's that he embodies pre-existing, real-life racial stereotypes about Native Americans, specifically the "Casino Indian" stereotype (and to some degree the "Ignoble Savage" stereotype).

There are plenty of ways to make a Native American the bad guy without using these stereotypes.

As to my goal: Plenty of people (American or not) don't realize that these are racial stereotypes. My hope is that The Fun Pimps also don't want the plot of their game to be racist (because they're not racist), so when they realize it is, they will voluntarily go in a different direction.

So then they should change the traders in the game as well no? 3 of them embody pre-existing, real-life racial stereotypes about whites; a bunch rednecks. And the only woman there seems to be treated as eye candy for men. I'm sure not every person living in Arizona is like that, yet the game makes it seem otherwise. I haven't seen any others in the game, and those that are coming will be bandits not friendly survivors. What if the bandits will be black? 😲
 
my guy, if the only answers you will accept are answers you've already decided are worthless and therefore are ones in which you've "won" preemptively then you aren't looking for answers you are looking for justification.
I didn't say they were the only ones. I said if those were your reasons then I can deduce my own conclusion. I offered, for example, an alternative perspective that you can take each item individually and determine what is offensive. Though I find it telling no one has answered whether those concepts were problematic or not.
if this is your honest feeling on the matter then anything i or anyone else says will be too insubstantive to convince you to change your mind.
I think you are not understanding the definition of ideology. Your beliefs shape your opinions or are you suggesting it is Mala in se?
Post automatically merged:

So then they should change the traders in the game as well no? 3 of them embody pre-existing, real-life racial stereotypes about whites; a bunch rednecks. And the only woman there seems to be treated as eye candy for men. I'm sure not every person living in Arizona is like that, yet the game makes it seem otherwise. I haven't seen any others in the game, and those that are coming will be bandits not friendly survivors. What if the bandits will be black? 😲
This is also why these topics are difficult to discuss because every person has their own moral compass.
 
So the main difference for you

Not "for me."

You keep thinking that what you're arguing against are just my opinions.

The "Casino Indian" stereotype is not my opinion. The character of the Duke, as expressed in the game files, is not my opinion.

Maybe you should follow your own advice and go read the posts I linked... there are a lot of them, take your time. ;)

Excellent idea!

Indictment in connection with Twentynine Palms Band casino

This is a 2012 story about a (non-Native) lawyer who was hired by the Coachella Valley Indian Tribe, and how he conspired with others to defraud the tribe. It basically involved convincing the tribe to hire his co-conspiraters, after which they would give him kickbacks.

This was not an example of Native Americans criminally exploiting their positions inside the casino business.


USDOJ: US Attorney's Office - WAW

This is a 2007 story about the "Tran Organization" conspiring to cheat casinos across the country out of millions of dollars. Many of them were tribal casinos, but many were not. The scheme involved bribing card dealers to create "slugs" and "false shuffles" so they could count cards easier. None of the "Tran Organization" themselves worked for any of the casinos.

This was not an example of Native Americans criminally exploiting their positions inside the casino business.


Tribes Discover The Two Sides Of Gambling Coin Corruption Following Prosperity's Footstep Onto Reservations

This is a 1996(!) story about the in-fighting and internal struggles of various tribes to deal with the management of their then-new casinos. Yes, there was a lot of mismanagement and corruption - thirty years ago - but even the article itself suggests it did not apply to the majority of native casinos.

A lot has changed in thirty years. For example, that was before the formation of the Indian Gaming Working Group in 2003: https://www.nigc.gov/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/2004-2-.pdf (PDF)

But, though it was thirty years ago, this was an example of Native Americans criminally exploiting their positions inside the casino business.


Former Tribal Casino Supervisor Pleads Guilty to $300K Embezzlement

This is a 2021 story of a front desk manager who, over many years, embezzled hundreds of thousands of dollars from a casino run by the Bois Forte Band of Chippewa. The tribal police significantly assisted in the investigation.

Though she worked at the casino, she apparently was not Native American:
An employee who wishes to remain anonymous worked with Boutto and confirmed Buotto is not a Bois Forte tribal member and worked as a front-desk employee at the resort. https://nativenewsonline.net/curren...ee-charged-in-federal-court-for-embezzlement/
So, this was not an example of Native Americans criminally exploiting their positions inside the casino business.


Guilty: Former Paskenta Tribal Leaders Admit Stealing Casino Money

This is a 2019 story about former tribal leaders in the Paskenta Band of Nomlaki Indians who, in the words of an IRS agent, "used the Tribe's accounts as their personal piggy banks." It seems to be a straightforward embezzlement case.

So, this was an example of Native Americans criminally exploiting their positions inside the casino business.


Dealt in the desert: Operation Royal Flush and Arizona’s gambling past | Arizona Capitol Times

This is a weird article.

The 2025 gaming-related arrests, called Operation Royal Flush, had absolutely nothing to do with casinos, tribal or otherwise. It involved 31 suspects across 11 states, including NBA players and members of La Cosa Nostra. The crimes were complicated fraud schemes at illegal high-stakes poker games.

Here's the DOJ's press release:

But the article, for whatever reason, lumps this in with a 1992 standoff between the Yavapai Nation and federal agents trying to seize their slot machines. This turned into a three-week protest and sit-in, and eventually involved Native Americans from other tribes. Afterwards, the governor agreed to a compact with the Yavapai, which meant they were cleared to have slot machines (though the original machines were still confiscated).

Here's another account of that incident:

Other than gambling, the two incidents are completely unrelated.

So, this was not an example of Native Americans criminally exploiting their positions inside the casino business.


This Arizona tribal chairman is the subject of a federal probe. But it’s unclear why

It's clear now. The former tribal chairman is Kasey Velasquez. I say "former" because the White Mountain Apache Tribal Council voted unanimously to fire him, due to credible allegations of sexual misconduct.

It had nothing to do with casinos.

So, this was not an example of Native Americans criminally exploiting their positions inside the casino business.


Also... from the American Enterprise Institute:

That's from the second link you posted. It is an opinion piece from the American Enterprise Institute - written in 2004.

First, we should recognize that the AEI has nothing to do with law enforcement, and does not represent Native Americans, nor are they primarily focused on Native American interests. They are a conservative political think tank.

This should raise red flags right away, since it seems like another attempt to sneak politics into the discussion. But let's ignore that for now.

The entire purpose of this article is to advocate against native sovereignty. Literally: the title of the piece is "The Festering Problem of Indian 'Sovereignty'".

Casinos are only part of what is mentioned. They are also upset that tribal nations don't pay state taxes, so can sell things like cigarettes tax-free.

They are especially upset that Native American tribes are gaining political power.

I would address the claims made in that article, but they only give bare assertions without any reliable sources. And since the article is over twenty years old at this point, it would be difficult to check if what they said used to be accurate.

The only "sources" they have are quotes (also non-sourced) from people like:
  • Jeff Benedict, president of the Connecticut Alliance Against Casino Expansion, and the author of 2001's Without Reservation.
  • Brett Fromson, author of 2004's Hitting the Jackpot, who calls the Pequot tribe "the greatest legal scam".
  • Scott Peterman, president of Upstate Citizens for Equality, a group that was formed specifically to oppose the Oneida Indian Nation's tribal claims.
    And a group which, according to Wikipedia, "every Native Nation located in the vicinity of New York State and other tribes represented by the United South and Eastern Tribes (USET) views as an anti-Indian hate group." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upstate_Citizens_for_Equality).
  • Barb Lindsay, of United Property Owners and One Nation, both organizations that used to directly oppose sovereign issues (https://indianz.com/News/2005/009150.asp or http://www.onenationunited.org).
    To quote the article: "The true meaning of sovereignty, Lindsay says, is tax evasion."
They don't quote a single person who represents Native American interests.

Now, I'm sure you read the sources I posted, right? Here's a quote from one:

This article attempts to chart the contours of this stereotype and argues that it suggests Native Americans are once again being portrayed as a threat - the Ignoble Savage of the past posed a threat of violence, while the contemporary Casino Indian image, which articulates with both racist and classist discourses, reflects the fear of Native Americans as an economic and political threat.
The AEI article pretty much proves that article correct.

To sum up, what you provided was:
  • Five news articles which do not show criminal Native American casino operators.
  • Two news articles which do show criminal Native American casino operators - over twenty years apart.
  • One political op-ed, which used as a source at least one person in charge of what is considered "an anti-Indian hate group."
This does nothing to justify the belief that the "Casino Indian" trope might be accurate, if that's what you were going for.

Thanks for proving my case!
 
My sources are obvious gospel, yours are obviously machinations of a hate group ... This'd be hilarious if it wasn't so predictably silly ... :)
 
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