PC Steam reviews - I kinda figured

[Kage848]

But that's just it. It IS fun. Just not for you. You know what I find boring? Traders. To me they are a game crutch and one of the most uninteresting aspects of this game. But you love them. I can't fathom why.
And all of that is ok. Trust me when I say in my circles I know more people who like the first 5 days way more than anything after. In your circles the trader is probably a very important component to the game. Its just about what you get out of it when you play.

TFP have the hard task of pleasing both crowds. But its usually not a good idea to say things like anyone and all, because generalized sweeping statemnts usually come back to bite you, as i have learned myself first hand

Yea, I get that. I was just asking for him to explain what makes getting 1 peice of iron every 4 hits in a boulder fun? What makes using iron tools for 34 hours game time fun? That one was for you

I guess there's really no way to explain why you find that mind numbing slow gameplay fun. I guess I didnt really expect an answer. Just a difference of opinion. I respect it, even if I think your crazy lol.

I'd prefer a fair amount of resources and exp for my time. Then give me tougher zombies to make the game difficult.

 

[MaxTunnerX]

Yea, I get that. I was just asking for him to explain what makes getting 1 peice of iron every 4 hits in a boulder fun? What makes using iron tools for 34 hours game time fun? That one was for you ��
I guess there's really no way to explain why you find that mind numbing slow gameplay fun. I guess I didnt really expect an answer. Just a difference of opinion. I respect it, even if I think your crazy lol.

I'd prefer a fair amount of resources and exp for my time. Then give me tougher zombies to make the game difficult.

I've learned that some players are simply masochistic, and the more they suffer, the more fun they have at a game. If you gave them 1 piece of iron for 20 whole boulders they would melt from satisfaction. Also there is a difference between players who like the goal and players who like the road to the goal. Road to the goal usually represents grind and the more of it, the better for these folks, whereas the others get frustrated to hell.

 

[Kage848]

No level Gates so I would not be hampered by tfp stupidity, and 10x the biome spawns so that there were actual threats early game. Plus a variety of other things that made early game more challenging in a fun way.
Moderate (mostly) iron armor, but the real issue boiled down to two things.

1) Melee being totally ineffective against rad zombies, which forced you to

2). Base building is a week long chore when they can tear through anything very quickly.

I'm building an ai cheese base away from the main horde base, in hopes I'm able to actually have fun playing the subsequent weeks.

Or I suppose I could just wait horde night out again on another vanilla poi, but that's a day wasted just clearing it, and no real sense of accomplishment.

...in every build, after playing, I'm able to find the secret sauce that makes early, mid, and late game FUN, and mod appropriately.

I got it for early game, but unfortunately the game skipped mid and went straight to late.

Ok the issue is with melee vs zombies. Are you talking about poi clearing or horde night? What's your level and what day are you on? What your day setting at?

Maybe you leveled too fast with the 10x biome spawns. In assuming that means more zombies.

Either way your server is so unbalievabley modded, or so it seems, I'm not sure it's the base games fault? Maby adjust the mods on the, is it s server? Maybe more powerful str melee options. Can you mod in new melee perks? That could be cool.

 

[Kage848]

Jax:
See his streams and you know why fast. When you have 3 or 4 people finding traders in MP, marking down what trader has a forge, workbench, CI, ... and then do all the quests for quick rewards in a group. This is why Kage loves the traders, because its a build in game cheat.

Without using the traders / trader quests / trader tools, A17 is way more harder and time consuming. And harder is less fun to stream because nobody wants to watch Kage hit a rock for 5 hours with his weak stone tools, his non existing stamina etc.

For him playing without traders will cost him viewers because of the mega grind. And that in turn cost him money. So its not hard to understand why he loves traders. Its a soft way to cheat the game early mega grind.

There is some truth to this. But its not totally about views. Hitting boulders for hours for very little return is boring to most people. Yea I'll say it. It's not a challenge and it's not fun. I would not want to do it even if I didn't stream.

 

[Hek Harris]

You know that's just because you absolutely want to start digging and mining from your first steps in the game, right ? I never start doing those things before I have found / craft / bought good tools and upgrade the necessary perks. So I'm not masochist : just organized in my priorities. But the good thing is TFP listened to you and in the next version you'll be able to make holes and gain xp as soon as you launch your game. What a beautiful world

 

[Kage848]

I always got the impression that the reason kage likes the traders so much is that they allow you to buy advanced items (steel, tools, weapons) long before you can craft them.Is it really that he likes he traders or is that getting a steel pick early makes mining enjoyable instead of tediously slow like it is with the stoneaxe/iron pick?

As much as i love kages videos (he introduced quite a few of us to the game) he *has* to like whatever crap the developers decide. He cant stop playing 7days if he dosent like crafting timers, because its part of his income and his channel would be tiny without 7days to die.

Someone doesn't watch my videos lol. My current lp I didnt buy any iron tools. I think I found and iron hoe with +69 to moral, which was awesome lol. But the rest I made.

Also I basicly stopped playing 7 dtd during the summer. Did like 2 or 3 videos a week. They were getting almost no views. I started playing mist. Yea, had my best month in years. I always thought my channel would die without 7 days. But apparently that's not the case. Fear the Night is doing great as well.

Sorry for off topic but he brought it up

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Does he make $$ youtubing? Sure. But you shouldn't doubt his enjoyment of the game...

You know how you can tell if i dont like a game? I dont play it. I was jamming on this game for 5 alphas before anyone even knew who I was lol.

Best survival game ever made. Fact!

 

[DaVegaNL]

I've learned that some players are simply masochistic, and the more they suffer, the more fun they have at a game. If you gave them 1 piece of iron for 20 whole boulders they would melt from satisfaction. Also there is a difference between players who like the goal and players who like the road to the goal. Road to the goal usually represents grind and the more of it, the better for these folks, whereas the others get frustrated to hell.

Yeah some people like to be challenged, others want everything handed to them.

 

[Kage848]

We're looking options like xp slider, zombie block damage, Blood moon frequency: every day, every 3 days every 7 days, every two weeks, every month, random, never. I think never would be good for the adventuring types who like to explore, and good for pvp, and for casuals who just like to build and don't want their stuff getting wrecked.

This is amazing mm! Omfg I cant wait. Will this be a17 or 18? I cant wait. I'd be playing atlas right now if I could change those awful game settings.

 

[WolfyBlah]

You know that's it's just because you absolutely want to start digging and mining from your first steps in the game, right ? I never start doing those things before I have found / craft / bought good tools and upgrade the necessary perks. So I'm not masochist : just organized in my priorities. But the good thing is TFP listened to you and in the next version you'll be able to make holes and gain xp as soon as you launch your game. What a beautiful world

People want to actualy break voxels in this voxel game? Shocker.

Why should they have to invest X hours in an XP system before one of the core gameplay features dosent feel like a chore?

 

[Kage848]

I didnt question his enjoyment of the game.
I questioned wether or not he likes traders as an actual mechanic or because it allows him to skip past some of TFPs more ♥♥♥♥ty developement and balance decisions. (Level gates)

I dont mind the level gates. Take all the iron tools and stuff out of the trader and if still love them.

I think your thinking of past seasons. I hated rng, not lvl gates. Now if I put in the work I'm guaranteed to get my reward. That's how it should work. With rng you put in the work and maybe get what you need. Back then I was all about that trader mini bike book lol.

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I would normally say "excellent news", but this basically means people would be playing different games...
...you used to be able to play differently in the same game on the same server.

That was your game's magic sauce.

I dont see how those settings are any different than you modding the game.

 

[Hek Harris]

People want to actualy break voxels in this voxel game? Shocker.
Why should they have to invest X hours in an XP system before one of the core gameplay features dosent feel like a chore?

But I do like to break voxels ! Just not in a compulsive and exclusive way.

 

[WolfyBlah]

Yeah some people like to be challenged, others want everything handed to them.

Tedium (taking longer to break blocks and getting less resouces) is not challange.

Its not about wanting things handing to them, it's about wanting core gameplay mechanics to balanced and fun.

Right now (and in a16) about halfway through the progression is where the game stops feeling like a chore and starts feeling enjoyable again, make this the baseline instead.

 

[Kage848]

Why can't you get out there and tank with all the heavy armor perks and a sledge or fireaxe? You only take 10% damage. I fell out of my base a few times before release and just back pedaled and axed in the face and wiped out a whole blood moon horde that way. I'm playing a legit long term game so I will be tweaking things as I go, but so far I haven't seen anything too punishing. If you took some grandpa's moonshine, I think you could do some mass damage with melee on a blood moon. I think we stop regen if you hit something, so as long as you keep hitting it, it should die. But I've never faced on yet, so they could be OP, I have no idea.

Major modder server. Please correct me guppy if I'm wrong. But please dont make adjustments based off modded servers.

Again please correct me if I'm missing something here.

 

[WolfyBlah]

Someone doesn't watch my videos lol. My current lp I didnt buy any iron tools. I think I found and iron hoe with +69 to moral, which was awesome lol. But the rest I made.
Also I basicly stopped playing 7 dtd during the summer. Did like 2 or 3 videos a week. They were getting almost no views. I started playing mist. Yea, had my best month in years. I always thought my channel would die without 7 days. But apparently that's not the case. Fear the Night is doing great as well.

Sorry for off topic but he brought it up

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You know how you can tell if i dont like a game? I dont play it. I was jamming on this game for 5 alphas before anyone even knew how I was lol.

Best survival game ever made. Fact!

Its true that i dont watch your videos anymore, the style has changed over the years and that put me off (used to view you as just a knowladgeable player teaching the game, more recently its stuff like screamig 'HYYYYPE' at the start of videos... sorry but im not the target audiance for that.

Not saying dont do this anymore, if its what works for you thats great, its just... more somthing my younger family members would watch than somthing i would.

So you didn't abuse the trader in this most recent alpha: the question still stands, are they a good game mechanic on thier own or is progression skips (eg getting steel before you can make it) the *only* reason you like the traders?

-Edit: kage answered this above

As far as other games go, been gald to see you branching out over the last few years, i wont watch mist or rust or ark or whatever else because the games themseleves dont appeal to me, but if its helping your channel grow thats great.

 

[Kage848]

That's fair, it was always your stated intention, but have you noticed that the more RPG elements you add the less fun the game becomes?

NOPE. I see how much more fun it is becoming. And in seeing more rpg elements in other survival games too. And they are better off for it

 

[DaVegaNL]

Tedium (taking longer to break blocks and getting less resouces) is not challange.
Its not about wanting things handing to them, it's about wanting core gameplay mechanics to balanced and fun.

Right now (and in a16) about halfway through the progression is where the game stops feeling like a chore and starts feeling enjoyable again, make this the baseline instead.

You want A16's point where nothing was a chore anymore to be the baseline? Lol. Now I see why you liked A16 so much..

Something being a 'tedium', or something being 'fun' is extremely subjective. I prefer working towards something. But hey, that's okay. To each their own. I just like a challenge. Some people don't want to be challenged at all.

 

[Kage848]

I've learned that some players are simply masochistic, and the more they suffer, the more fun they have at a game. If you gave them 1 piece of iron for 20 whole boulders they would melt from satisfaction. Also there is a difference between players who like the goal and players who like the road to the goal. Road to the goal usually represents grind and the more of it, the better for these folks, whereas the others get frustrated to hell.

The problem is im still on the road. I'm just farther along. I'm by no means at end game. I like to stretch out the middle to late game, you know when the gameplay is more fun, just my opinion of course.

 

[WolfyBlah]

I dont mind the level gates. Take all the iron tools and stuff out of the trader and if still love them.
I think your thinking of past seasons. I hated rng, not lvl gates. Now if I put in the work I'm guaranteed to get my reward. That's how it should work. With rng you put in the work and maybe get what you need. Back then I was all about that trader mini bike book lol.

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I dont see how those settings are any different than you modding the game.

Il disagree here: RNG as a progression was a good mechanic, it varied what items you craft based on what recipes you found in

That playthrough. Gave actual repeatability to the game, somthing that is lessened a hell of a lot by 'play the exact same game every time with diffrent stats'.

Traders are as much an RNG factor as looting, thier item selection is random, you werent garunteed to be rewarded for farming 10k dukes with a specifc item.

If you are refering to everything now being a perk you just have to grind XP for... id much rather have RNG for recipes but can see how others could feel the opposite.

Id say that somthing got confused along the way here: people keep saying i just want things handing to me... thats exactly what this new system does. It garuntees you will be able to craft X by level Y.

I miss the forge ahead book, would have been great to see a primitive forge added that could only make up to qual 200 items (keeps forge a usable mechanic without finding the book AND gives it more of a progression)

 

[hotpoon]

In A16 it was always the exact same build. "Whats your build"? "Survivor" "Oh, me too " Now you can specialize in medicine or crafting, a variety of combat, make a glass cannon if you want, etc. Its not perfect but its 100x better than the NO CHOICE you had with A16. You choose what you need to survive and be OP, not to choose a role that might be a different challenge for a veteran.

I...vehemently disagree. I haven't played a lot of single player. I've always played with friends (until A17 of course because no one wants to play with me), but in A16, we all had our roles. I would be the scavenger/blunt force trauma dealer. My man would be the miner and builder. Another friend would be the science guy making us the best minibikes. Someone else would be the armour crafter gearing us up. Someone else would be the sharp shooter. etc etc. There was a world of choice, but still quite a lot of leeway to be a fairly successful 'Jack of All Trades' come end game.

I truly wish you would stop selling yourself short and comparing yourself to fallout. Your game is much better.

I was going to say the same thing. I've tried on multiple occasions to get into Fallout New Vegas, but always lost interest after a few days. 7 Days to Die (even in it's current worst state) is a far superior game in my opinion. A16.4 was the best game I have ever played, and I'm not a spring chicken. TFP have created a magical world that has a lot of replayability, so much so that many of us have become emotionally invested in this game, and I think that is why tempers are often flaring in this forum.

 

[Kage848]

You know that's just because you absolutely want to start digging and mining from your first steps in the game, right ? I never start doing those things before I have found / craft / bought good tools and upgrade the necessary perks. So I'm not masochist : just organized in my priorities. But the good thing is TFP listened to you and in the next version you'll be able to make holes and gain xp as soon as you launch your game. What a beautiful world

Not sure if your being sarcastic lol. I'll assume you are and ask, whats wrong with that? Seems to me making the game fun for all should be a goal, no?

Also I'm actually having a ball clearing pois and leveling up on zombie skull crushing. It's probably getting old though because of all the restarts. Nothing tfp can do about that though, so it's all good.