PC Steam reviews - I kinda figured

[Jugginator]

I don't know, I think that's just you're in too big of a place that early on. I build small, tiny horde bases (a bit bigger if playing with a friend or two) out of wood and cobblestone, and they are barely - if at all - touched. I build just big enough for my supply of wood/iron for spikes.. and for time.. and generally try to dig at least a 1-deep or 2-deep pref moat around each layered wall with spiked in the bottom for them to get sucked into. Works like a charm, even solo. This is day 28+ on Survivalist with 16 spawns. Walls last just long enough to make it through the night if they get past the traps / defending is off the game. I don't think one single wall does it, that's the thing. Think a core with a wall 1 block away surrounding, traps 1 deep wall, traps 1 deep, wall. Pentagon style. Then advance to big buildings when you have the resources to trap it all.

Perhaps having the attacks spread out more would be better, not saying the honeing in on one spot is bad, but multiple spots would be better. a15/16 you could pick a huge whatever and make do, 17 gotta start small.

 

[new7daylive]

So.. we're going to ignore wood/iron spikes, blade/shotgun/SMG/flamethrower/electric fence traps? Building a small 2-deep moat and filling it with more traps/landmines/campfires? If walls took half an hour to get through, then traps would make it impenetrable. Like a15 and 16 was. That makes for one boring tower defense game.

So why do we have wood, flagstone and cobblestone blocks if they arent providing a 'meaningful' defense? things should get damaged for sure, but not instantly destroyed.

Maybe there should be constant tightly packed mini - waves of 6 zeds aiming for one spot. Force the defenders to keep moving around, prioritising the areas that seem to be taking the most damage. Having some zombies get through isnt a drama. Having your whole base smashed in rapid fashion frustrating.

Im gonna finish my 2 bits worth again by referencing another Madmole comment above. All of us as customers have different wants and desires for the game - I dont envy the devs when dealing with so much diversity. Balancing something that is so open ended has to be crazy tough

 

[Jugginator]

So why do we have wood, flagstone and cobblestone blocks if they arent providing a 'meaningful' defense? things should get damaged for sure, but not instantly destroyed.
Maybe there should be constant tightly packed mini - waves of 6 zeds aiming for one spot. Force the defenders to keep moving around, prioritising the areas that seem to be taking the most damage. Having some zombies get through isnt a drama. Having your whole base smashed in rapid fashion frustrating.

Im gonna finish my 2 bits worth again by referencing another Madmole comment above. All of us as customers have different wants and desires for the game - I dont envy the devs when dealing with so much diversity. Balancing something that is so open ended has to be crazy tough

I make tiny horde bases out of wood every playthrough on 16 spawning on Survivalist difficulty... I upgrade with iron sometimes but usually go straight to cobblestone. They don't get hairy until day 28, which I usually have concrete by then. I have built... 6(?) horde bases so far in A17? First one failed because I made it too big, start small with many traps, save resources that way and then expand as you go.

And they rarely get touched. Traps do, but careful trap placement is key in a tower defense game. Which, this is. Look at the game description lol. Maybe sometimes they beat on the door on my outer-most wall, sometimes some splash damage from cops touches a wall. About it.

 

[Poojam]

land claims, a bug and easily fixed.

Good. Please add it to the list of known bugs and make allowing more than one a high priority.

move slower? What are you talking about. Unarmored dudes run faster than armored.

Stamina is not bad at all if you understand what perks to buy and don't power attack constantly, BUT we're going to improve it.

Strafing speed significantly reduced.


Backpedaling removed.


Running while reloading removed.


Stamina greatly reduced.


Ladder movement speed greatly reduced.


Crouching doesn't crouch anymore.


Encumbrance added to slow you down.


Jumping/punching etc cost more stamina.


Stamina is reduced by consumables rather than being a fixed pool.


Not being able to cancel a reload in progress by switching items.


Building/upgrading blocks is significantly slower.

 


I dare you to load up A16.4 and run around, reload, strafe, hop around, fire your gun like a mad man. After 2 minutes you will feel like a cow that was just let out of the barn in the first week of spring after having played A17.

Dealth penalty, save those books and read one of each attribute when you die to remove the penalties. We can look at it. I don't think it matters much for pvp, 1 perk level is not that much damage lost.

I'm not opposed to having A death penalty. It does matter a lot in PVP though, and primarily because of it's detrimental effect on your inventory space.

 


Often times when you get killed and you want to seek revenge. By god, you want to hunt that guy down and get your stuff back and take his! This is the point... But now that you have died you are running back to face your opponent with gimped stamina, reduced inventory space, and lost attributes that reduce your DPS. In A16.4 you just took a minor ding to your wellness, which was enough to get you to not be too cavalier to successive deaths because it took time/consumables to rebuild and lower HP meant not being able to resist as much damage. Your ability to inflict damage wasn't really nerfed though, and you could get away with your gear if you were successful. When fighting a team of opponents, sometimes your teammates could keep them occupied long enough to get back to your bag to get your stuff back.

 


The effect is that the aggressor is now effectively "buffed" while you are on cooldown. This can lead to a circular loop of your poo getting pushed in. And even if you do manage to kill the opponent to get your stuff back, your inventory space is gimped so you can't carry it all away to safety.

 


I just see older, leveled players pushing newbie's poo in repetitively and a lot of quiting happening because of it. It was already a major source of butthurt for those unacquainted to the PVP lifestyle by just losing their stuff. Making it hurt more and be more difficult to fight back is only going add fuel to the outrage.

 


Tweaking the current death penalty to not nerf the inventory space would be fine. Making it not apply on a player vs player kill would be fine. Or simply adding a server variable for the duration of the death penalty would fix this for all. There has been a lot of talk over the last 6 weeks about how some like it, but think it should only apply for 5 minutes. Some want it for 60 minutes. Make the default your 30 minutes, but allow for 0.

The underground thing is difficult to please everyone with. Zombies should dig by default but I can see how some people don't like it. Maybe we can make an option.

An option would be good. A scalar representing their effectiveness would be even better. The scalar could be a linear multiplier compounded against their hand's effectiveness against earth, sand, stone and destroyed stone from 0 to X. Or perhaps it could be based on their sensing range. I actually agree with a lot of the people that advocate for the ability for zombies to be able TO dig, just not this well. They can sense you at any depth and will excavate 40 stone in a matter of one night. Digging a 3 deep hole and putting sand over your head is too easy of a way to avoid conflict, as has been argued. I would much rather it be balanced to require you to dig a shaft 10-20 blocks deep to avoid being sensed by zombies. Then if you had forges/equipment running, it would require you to be deeper to avoid detection.

The fact is we have a super wide variety of customers who play so differently. We didn't mean to step on anyones toes with this update, we do what we think would be the most fun and what was on the KS list.

That is not the message that has been relayed to people voicing these opinions for the last 6 weeks. Glad it is now though.

 

[Deceptive Pastry]

Stamina is not bad at all if you understand what perks to buy and don't power attack constantly, BUT we're going to improve it.

I have my fireaxe stamina set to 16/32 primary/secondary down from 21/42 and I removed the stamina freeze on power attacks. I can power attack 3 times from full stamina and then I have to start backing off. Dealing with 1-2 zombies is fine, groups have me backing off while stam regens and occasionally put me in a tough spot if I don't realize there are walls behind me. It still feels limiting enough to not be able to hack apart groups with ease without perks.

42 on the power attack would probably be fine, balanced with perks, but I swear one of the biggest things I disagree with you guys on currently is the stamina freeze. It slows things down so much and I absolutely hate it.

 

[Jugginator]

I have my fireaxe stamina set to 16/32 primary/secondary down from 21/42 and I removed the stamina freeze on power attacks. I can power attack 3 times from full stamina and then I have to start backing off. Dealing with 1-2 zombies is fine, groups have me backing off while stam regens and occasionally put me in a tough spot if I don't realize there are walls behind me. It still feels limiting enough to not be able to hack apart groups with ease without perks.
42 on the power attack would probably be fine, balanced with perks, but I swear one of the biggest things I disagree with you guys on currently is the stamina freeze. It slows things down so much and I absolutely hate it.

Have you bought sexual tyrannosaurus? I can use a steel pick to clear out over a dozen nodes before I get low on stamina. In attacking with power attack I can get a good 7 or so swings in. That's with 2 in it. Aside from hydration, you got beer/coffee too. Yucca juice helps as well.

 

[Deceptive Pastry]

Have you bought sexual tyrannosaurus? I can use a steel pick to clear out over a dozen nodes before I get low on stamina. In attacking with power attack I can get a good 7 or so swings in. That's with 2 in it. Aside from hydration, you got beer/coffee too. Yucca juice helps as well.

Steel pickaxe power attack with 2 points of sex trex should be costing 35 stam to swing. 7 power attacks would take about 245 stamina given that stam isn't regenning between swings...Either I doubt your numbers or there are other factors involved there.

Unless you're talking about power attacking with clubs, in which case their stamina costs are much more reasonable.

 

[Jugginator]

Well yeah you don't farm using power attacks. It's slower and costs more stamina. Can clear a node in a few swings normally anyway there's no need. And you get more stamina regen drinking good drinks like red tea/yucca juice/coffee/ beer don't forget. Offsets stamina drain.

Really no need at all to use picks or axes on anything including safes. It's for zombie killing lol

If you're attacking zombies using farming tools there's your problem if that's what ya meant lol.

 

[Deceptive Pastry]

Sure it isn't their primary purpose, but they count as bladed weapons and do decent damage (fireaxes). If there's no point in power attacking resources or zombies...what is the point of being able to power attack with them. At least with modding the stamina a little the power attacks aren't practically worthless.

All of this doesn't change the fact that I still despise the stamina freeze mechanic, which effectively adds another ~30 stamina you aren't regenning for 3 seconds.

 

[Jugginator]

I mean, there are tools to harvest, weapons for fighting. Harvesting tools can do some damage but they're not made for fighting... I can power attack with a club for several swings. It shouldnt be unlimited. IT almost becomes unlimited under hydration/beer affects. Sledge hammer has a very powerful left click, and a very very powerful right. Power right and one left on survivalist and not much survives if they survive the initial power hit.

And I can clear nodes with a few swings total with a pick with left click. Right click is too slow to be worth it, but it can be used for bashing a door or something in a hurry. It cant be unlimited. Bladed weapons like the hunting knife/machete do way more damage than a fireaxe/pickaxe.. and those two arent even bladed weapons I dont think. I really dont know why youd want to use a pick or axe to kill a zombie unless it's an emergency, but they cant be great at both. Not for balance reasons lol. I guess for a16 sure. You can do fine with a bone in that version lol

 

[Gazz]

This rubbed me the wrong way. Let me please remind you about the people who just passively follow the game and these forums. Like I do. Like my friends do. Like I'm sure others do. To follow the latest developments and stay informed about the direction the game is taking. We are also passionate about the game, just not in a vocal way. I never left a negative steam review or forum post. But just because I never spoke up before, doesn't mean I don't have mixed feelings about the most recent update. I may be just another fish in the ocean, but we are out there. It makes me sad that you are so dismissive about negative opinions. Or maybe I'm just reading it wrong.

I don't know what you're talking about.

Note that this happens every time. This is not special to A17.

Every patch and also the recent experimental release. A flashfire of negative reviews from a handful of people who don't like (insert change). A week or two tops and the episode passes.

From day 1 people have bought into a tower defense game and now some are even demanding that zombies should not be allowed to get to them if they employ the amazing strategy of being below the zombies.

A tower defense game where the enemies cannot possibly reach you is some serious schizophrenia. =)

 

[Deceptive Pastry]

"It cant be unlimited"

Nobody is saying it should be unlimited. That is a ridiculous counter-argument. It's a matter of where to draw the line.

Also...the fireaxe does more damage per swing than the hunting knife or machete. 10 more damage than machete.

Also here's another thing...I simply want to use a fireaxe sometimes. It makes a good amount of sense to use one as a weapon, it's a common weapon in the zombie genre, and it's just fun hacking limbs off with an axe as Deep Cuts applies to the axe. Should it be better than weapons specifically for melee, no, I'm just saying the stamina use when combined with the stam freeze is a bit too much. Again, the stam freeze is my main problem here and that extends to all melee weapons.

 

[WolfyBlah]

What nerf? I doubled the amount of stone you get before initial release. I seriously doubt its nerfed compared to A16 in terms of how much or how fast you can get resources. If it is, we'll fix that for sure. I build huge castled every build and if I can't, it will get fixed. With all the perks and mods I'm pretty sure you can get loads of resources pretty fast. I gathered 1200 wood in about 5 minutes with my iron fire axe with 3 mods, one the wood splitter. I'll get into rock mining next I get my cement mixer in a level or two.

same ♥♥♥♥ diffrent day.

the game needs to be balanced and FUN without taking any specific perks or finding any specific loot items.

if i NEED to level up motherload for gathering to not be a complete grindfest... thats broken.

if i NEED to take the pack mule perk because as it turns out having a smaller inventory isnt fun...

if i NEED to level up melee for it not to take 5-6 hits to kill somthing...

balance these aspects of the game to be enjoyable instead of tedious at level 1 first, then go from there.

 

[hotpoon]

How? its a step in the right direction honestly...Previously, you could hide and completely avoid the horde with minimal effort.

And this affects you how?

Personally I don't have the patience for an underground base, or any base. I just secure existing buildings and snipe zombies from the roof on horde night. My husband, on the other hand, digs down to the bedrock and builds a palatial dwelling underground with furnished rooms. He even lines the tunnels with wood blocks and puts paintings up and crap like that.

Sometimes, he will leave his underground mansion and come and join me for some blood sport above ground...when he is in the mood.

Now, he can't really play that way. He will have to play like me. His choice to play how he wants to play has been removed. Was he hurting anyone else? No. His game play didn't affect you, me or anyone else.

If I were TFP, I wouldn't take away the digging ability, but rather give them a much shorter range to sense someone under ground. So if you didn't put in the effort of digging deep enough, you're gonna get zombies dropping in on you.

Would that not please, at least the majority of people?

 

[Kage848]

Steam reviews? Really?

Listen I'm not saying you guys on the forums dont have some legit gripes. And im sure some of the steam reviews are legit. But come on. Who even listens to reviews anymore, much less steam reviews.

I have played countless games with bad steam reviews and loved a good many of them. Someone goes on steam and bitches about 7 days to die graphics or the fact it's been in alpha for so long, ignoring how hard the devs work on it or how much they care, and Im Supposed to take that seriously?

Fear the Night is getting killed in the reviews atm and I'm having an absolute blast with it. I can tell you now, every ones got an agenda and people need to think for themselves. And ffs dont take some randos review on steam seriously.

 

[JaxTeller718]

I don't know what you're talking about.
Note that this happens every time. This is not special to A17.

Every patch and also the recent experimental release. A flashfire of negative reviews from a handful of people who don't like (insert change). A week or two tops and the episode passes.

From day 1 people have bought into a tower defense game and now some are even demanding that zombies should not be allowed to get to them if they employ the amazing strategy of being below the zombies.

A tower defense game where the enemies cannot possibly reach you is some serious schizophrenia. =)

Brother, I have been here a few years, and I have seen with my own eyes and experiences the reaction each Experimental and each Alpha received. And yes there have been moments, extended moments where people were upset about changes and were vocal but the overall feeling was NEVER this negative before.

If you keep thinking this reaction is just part of the normal Experimental/Alpha release Im telling you you are going to make a huge mistake here. A year and a half is a long time, gamers have grown, new games have come out and raised the bar even higher. There are WAY more EA games out there. Customers are way more choosy with how they spend their time now.

You simply can not dismiss this as just another round of Alpha noise. I have read every review, every post and every status update on this game for YEARS. Probably way more than the entire team and please please believe me and others when we try to explain that this Alpha has sucked the life out of your fans. People are playing, but no one is excited. Server populations are generally down among the smaller servers who usually see nice numbers. You have a real chance of losing a lot of very strong supporters here. VERY faithful fans who have never uttered a bad word about this game are doing so now.

Stop focusing on the people who are mad over diggers or better AI. Those aren't the customers who you should be worried about losing. They can adapt to those changes. The people who are upset over the core of the game being changed, the fun being removed, the complexity being streamlined, the overall pointless feeling this game now has are the ones who will walk and never look back. I REALLY don't want to see that fate befall this one. I've seen it before and it sucks.

This is not a handful of people.

 

[Guppycur]

Gazz is also forgetting that the complaining dies down because people simply give up and just accept the crappy update, too.

... continually hoping for the magic to come back.

 

[JaxTeller718]

Steam reviews? Really?
Listen I'm not saying you guys on the forums dont have some legit gripes. And im sure some of the steam reviews are legit. But come on. Who even listens to reviews anymore, much less steam reviews.

I have played countless games with bad steam reviews and loved a good many of them. Someone goes on steam and bitches about 7 days to die graphics or the fact it's been in alpha for so long, ignoring how hard the devs work on it or how much they care, and Im Supposed to take that seriously?

Fear the Night is getting killed in the reviews atm and I'm having an absolute blast with it. I can tell you now, every ones got an agenda and people need to think for themselves. And ffs dont take some randos review on steam seriously.

Fear the Night really is awesome. Bought it based off your video and Im not regretting it. Been spending HOURS in it exploring that world and getting lost in the zombie insanity.

 

[Viktoriusiii]

I don't know what you're talking about.
Note that this happens every time. This is not special to A17.

Every patch and also the recent experimental release. A flashfire of negative reviews from a handful of people who don't like (insert change). A week or two tops and the episode passes.

From day 1 people have bought into a tower defense game and now some are even demanding that zombies should not be allowed to get to them if they employ the amazing strategy of being below the zombies.

A tower defense game where the enemies cannot possibly reach you is some serious schizophrenia. =)

How can someone be so naive, dismissive and ignorant to say this? You never hit peak players like you did with A16, your reviews were never lower than 70% like/dislikes, discussions on the forums were heated, but AT LEAST in a balance with equal ppl defending what others criticise.

There are nearly no ppl who really defend the changes. And even those that say they like it are more casual players just joining the game, not knowing the glory of A16 (there are some who like the new one, but they are super rare).

Everything you have written in this thread was filled of ignorance and dismissal of very real concerns. If I see a game with <60% recent reviews, I stay away from the game, because the dev obviously fked up. How you can be so blind and compare the 75% positive reviews of A16 to the 30% of A17... blows my mind. Seriously.

*edit*

Gazz is also forgetting that the complaining dies down because people simply give up and just accept the crappy update, too.
... continually hoping for the magic to come back.

+1

 

[JaxTeller718]

Gazz is also forgetting that the complaining dies down because people simply give up and just accept the crappy update, too.
... continually hoping for the magic to come back.

YES! Guppy knows. And the reason why I think this time the voices are SO loud is because we have come to a point where it is getting obvious to some that maybe the teams fingers are not on the pulse of the player base and things are beginning to spiral. Its not unheard of for once great games to pick up the reputation of turning into a hot mess and losing its community. It's a very real occurrence, and its happened to a few other great games out there. And that is something that none of us want to see.

I mean, correct me if i am wrong but i NEVER once read anyone complaining about 16's perks and progression after 16 released to alpha. So WHY overhaul it so much? Was it really needed? And why couldn't this new system "fit in" with the older one. Expand, not restrict.

There were rumblings that TFP were looking to kickstart their new game a year back. Maybe thats the case here. Feature creeping stuff from the next idea into this one. It should have been called at 16 then. Fix the AI (which you dont need a complete progression overhaul to do) add the vehicles and update the engine and call it. Then set out on the next game. This feels too much like a series finale to a great tv show that speeds through plot points just to wrap everything up in a nice bow. You had it just about perfect with 16.