I started at the end of a15 and I never once dug down to hide from the horde night. I made real bases and restarted a few times within the first 7 days as I tested things out. The whole point of the game is that the 7 day horde is tough, you need to figure out legit ways to survive it.
PC Steam reviews - I kinda figured
- Thread starter hillbilly
- Start date
Poojam
New member
Yea. I suppose he's talking about the shared xp, but this update has very seriously killed multiplayer.
You can see other people's claim blocks on the map....
You can only have one claim block, so it's extremely easy to pinpoint and raid a base...
You can't build more than one protected structure, which shunts the ability to create large/multiple/detailed structures and also eliminates the ability to use them for tactical offensive/defensive scenarios with PVP...
You move significantly slower than older opponents...
You get a death penalty if someone kills you that compromises the ability for you to kill them & rescue your full inventory due to the encumbrance...
Your stamina is complete ♥♥♥♥e until you spend 20+ hours killing zombies...
Digging zombies reveal your base location by messing up the terrain, so you can't hide on PVP servers...
madmole
New member
What nerf? I doubled the amount of stone you get before initial release. I seriously doubt its nerfed compared to A16 in terms of how much or how fast you can get resources. If it is, we'll fix that for sure. I build huge castled every build and if I can't, it will get fixed. With all the perks and mods I'm pretty sure you can get loads of resources pretty fast. I gathered 1200 wood in about 5 minutes with my iron fire axe with 3 mods, one the wood splitter. I'll get into rock mining next I get my cement mixer in a level or two.I like the game now as a survival game, but i hate the fact that it is no longer a build your own world game.
IMO the reason there has always been quite loyal players and streamers is that you can spend a long time building almost anything you could imagine. This is the reason minecraft has lasted so long too, in that people like to build new and exciting structures.
By changing this dynamic, they're now going to have to constantly keep adding new and harder challenges because once we all get used to the new baseline difficulty, what else is there to do? Building huge mega structures is no longer a viable option for a large portion of the playerbase simply due to the time needed to invest to even get started.
As an example, i built a huge castle in a16 which took me until day 80 to finish the walls/inside [not the actual buildings inside but just the floor/grass] but with the huge nerf that building has taken in a17 it'ld take me over double that minimum and at 90min days . . . . that is just not viable and something that interests me. Yes previously it'ld take ages as well to build these huge structures but at least you could see a steady progress, now the progress would be at a snail pace and [in survival mode at least, not creative] wouldn't even be available to start until mid > late level due to a lot of the higher tier stuff not being available.
Now again i do like the new survival part of the game and i like that zombies are a challenge now but i do think that within a few weeks i'll be bored of the survival part and be longing for the building aspect of the game once again.
Thats my thoughts anywayI'ld still recommend the game as a survival game, but not as a base building game anymore.
skullpoker
New member
Your mistake is your focus on digging. I was responding to "complaints of zombie block damage are routinely countered by a dev chiming in that they's been watching youtube videos of people successfully defending a base on insane always run." which has more to do with the idiotic block damage that makes base building an exercise in futility. It's simple to infer that I meant that there should be a huge difference in how fast enemies destroy structures, block, or other world elements. It doesn't matter how strong a zombie is, the human skeletal structure can't do a whole lot to a brick wall without pulverizing the bones, making further attempts to damage that wall ineffective and rendering the zombies arms useless.
madmole
New member
land claims, a bug and easily fixed.
move slower? What are you talking about. Unarmored dudes run faster than armored.
Stamina is not bad at all if you understand what perks to buy and don't power attack constantly, BUT we're going to improve it.
Dealth penalty, save those books and read one of each attribute when you die to remove the penalties. We can look at it. I don't think it matters much for pvp, 1 perk level is not that much damage lost.
The underground thing is difficult to please everyone with. Zombies should dig by default but I can see how some people don't like it. Maybe we can make an option.
The fact is we have a super wide variety of customers who play so differently. We didn't mean to step on anyones toes with this update, we do what we think would be the most fun and what was on the KS list.
madmole
New member
Its a fictional game. Who says the virus or radiation can't make their bones stronger? And its proven on myth busters that a crowd of people can easily push down a big barn door where one guy can't no matter how hard he pushes. Everyone signed up for a tower defense crafting game, not hide behind your walls and laugh at them pounding on the door. Of course we can try to add options to help, but there is block damage 200%. We can bump that to 1000% for the people who want to sit behind their walls all night I guess. It takes away the thrill if you ask me.
OzHawkeye
Community Moderator
Ayup, you're absolutely on a hiding to nothing in any attempt to please everyone. As you say, so many people play this game in so many ways, often diametrically opposed ways, that it's impossible to please everyone.
Modding, and allowing modders access to more of the games mechanics, is, I think, the long term "I win" button for the games longevity.
skullpoker
New member
That's a matter of perks and advancement. The game seems designed now to make the low levels overly gimped, while at higher levels you can become stronger than you could in a16. Basically I feel pigeonholed into focusing on Stamina-maintaining perks at low levels before I can learn to build items or anything else. The starting carrying capacity is crippling, meaning I have to buy Pack Mule before I can learn to use a bow as though it's a decent weapon. Likewise, if I don't invest heavily in Mother Lode I'm going to get much smaller amounts of resources than I grew accustomed to in a16.
Which is to say that it seems to me that I have to massively generalize before I can start to think about any spec. Given how drastically skewed the maps currently are toward harsh climates, there go even more points into well insulated, before I can find a decent spot to base or dig a nice bullet farm. Nitrate producing biomes are also much more abundant than coal/lead areas as a result of the current map weighting.
Guppycur
Well-known member
I'm 8 str and have the appropriate perks in smashing and stamina, and power attacks haven't really had a net change in effect for a while, so I'm looking forward to seeing improvements on that. Being a melee guy even with all the requisite perks is not currently feasible on horde nights or in close quarters.
A simple ability to edit the entity class XML, candig=true, would solve everyone's problem with digging zombies imo.
I'd much rather have it on a per entity basis than a global setting.
A simple ability to edit the entity class XML, candig=true, would solve everyone's problem with digging zombies imo.
I'd much rather have it on a per entity basis than a global setting.
skullpoker
New member
It's a bit out of proportion to how fast a player can get through the same wall with specialized tools. Compare time to get through a reinforced wood wall for players with a fireaxe versus zombies, or even an iron door. One example I know well is the bank vault. Zombies can get through that door pretty easily, whereas I tend to go through the stone wall, which is much less effort than the door but still takes me much longer with a steel pickaxe than it takes the zombies to go through the vault door. Not saying I ever want to put block health at 200%, as that makes gathering or getting around kind of tedious.
Maybe I'm off base but I have read people here saying that the Z's will tear through concrete double walls in about a minute. Seems futile to think someone is going to be able to defend 4 walls at that rate, even given the amount of work it took to build and upgrade that structure.
My comment on this is, you can argue the OP all you want, you're looking at a reality. A17 is shedding a certain player type. Maybe it won't shed all of them. Time will tell, I suppose. I still haven't found a replacement for it. I may change up genres for a while. A17 has been a kick in the balls. I'm laying here doubled over on the ground in awe of the game in the new engine. 
Personally I'm not overly impressed with the Steam reviews. I went to look at them today. My impression is that A17 certainly hasn't been bad enough on its own to warrant negative reviews from new players. New players don't know what changed, just like I didn't know anything before A15/A16. I think the only effect it could possibly have is obviously an affect on who buys and then sticks with 7D2D and who doesn't. Clearly certain types of players love it. 7D2D is very unique, IMO. I played a little Rust, but you can't dig/terra-form, which takes away a lot of the fun/immersion for me. Stones that you can mine and stones that you can't do anything to? Get out of here with that mess. Also players there are worse than PVP players in 7D2D by an order of magnitude. It's an a**hole/sociopath breeding ground.
Your problem, I think, Madmole (and very likely the rest of TFP), is that you're only dealing with the portion of the reality of 7D2D in the gaming universe that you want to. Once you release it out there it becomes more than you intended, as everyone explores and enjoys it in different ways. With every release you both intentionally and obliviously take a machete to it until it's back to the form you have in mind, and the process starts over. It's arguable that this is absolutely your right. It's true that every last one of us has gotten our money's worth many times over (even if the game we bought into never did get finished). You're an artist, it seems to me. Why couldn't you be more of a businessman, and cultivate that extra growth... I know that sometimes things have to be cut or changed for the growth/advancement of the product--I'm well aware that you can't please everyone. Put that machete away and grab a pair of pruners. I know that you have to keep your eye on the goal in order to have a game that is certain of what it is, but do you have to leave such a needless trail of wreckage on the way?
This game is still very unique in its own right--it's a great game. I expect TFP is going to succeed in keeping its promise to its customers and ultimately release a finished game. I expect it will be a really fun game. It would be a shame if (when) I can't enjoy that game for the reasons I enjoyed it during development. I'm not talking about exploiting the game and then being mad when we can't anymore, I'm talking about an entire style of play that has apparently come and gone. I don't think it would be impossible to preserve WITHIN the developer's vision, if they could just be convinced that it should be allowed to exist.
Personally I'm not overly impressed with the Steam reviews. I went to look at them today. My impression is that A17 certainly hasn't been bad enough on its own to warrant negative reviews from new players. New players don't know what changed, just like I didn't know anything before A15/A16. I think the only effect it could possibly have is obviously an affect on who buys and then sticks with 7D2D and who doesn't. Clearly certain types of players love it. 7D2D is very unique, IMO. I played a little Rust, but you can't dig/terra-form, which takes away a lot of the fun/immersion for me. Stones that you can mine and stones that you can't do anything to? Get out of here with that mess.
Also players there are worse than PVP players in 7D2D by an order of magnitude. It's an a**hole/sociopath breeding ground. Your problem, I think, Madmole (and very likely the rest of TFP), is that you're only dealing with the portion of the reality of 7D2D in the gaming universe that you want to. Once you release it out there it becomes more than you intended, as everyone explores and enjoys it in different ways. With every release you both intentionally and obliviously take a machete to it until it's back to the form you have in mind, and the process starts over. It's arguable that this is absolutely your right. It's true that every last one of us has gotten our money's worth many times over (even if the game we bought into never did get finished). You're an artist, it seems to me. Why couldn't you be more of a businessman, and cultivate that extra growth... I know that sometimes things have to be cut or changed for the growth/advancement of the product--I'm well aware that you can't please everyone. Put that machete away and grab a pair of pruners. I know that you have to keep your eye on the goal in order to have a game that is certain of what it is, but do you have to leave such a needless trail of wreckage on the way?
This game is still very unique in its own right--it's a great game. I expect TFP is going to succeed in keeping its promise to its customers and ultimately release a finished game. I expect it will be a really fun game. It would be a shame if (when) I can't enjoy that game for the reasons I enjoyed it during development. I'm not talking about exploiting the game and then being mad when we can't anymore, I'm talking about an entire style of play that has apparently come and gone. I don't think it would be impossible to preserve WITHIN the developer's vision, if they could just be convinced that it should be allowed to exist.
Thecolours
New member
Getting iron ore is a huge problem in the early game. Even with iron tools you get very little iron ore from mining above ground.
This rubbed me the wrong way. Let me please remind you about the people who just passively follow the game and these forums. Like I do. Like my friends do. Like I'm sure others do. To follow the latest developments and stay informed about the direction the game is taking. We are also passionate about the game, just not in a vocal way. I never left a negative steam review or forum post. But just because I never spoke up before, doesn't mean I don't have mixed feelings about the most recent update. I may be just another fish in the ocean, but we are out there. It makes me sad that you are so dismissive about negative opinions. Or maybe I'm just reading it wrong. Anyway, best of luck.
Jugginator
Tester
??? Killing zombies isn't player killer PVP, PVP sucks ass in this game and I think it always well -- and that's fine. I play single-player just fine... Change is hurrrd idn't it?
Others have said, the recent reviews are insignificant. Honestly most of them are raging about frame-rate so they change it to negative. Others are complaining about things that aren't bad, they just don't know how to adapt because they can't comprehend change, and any little change from the normal throws them into a rage-induced flury, ignoring how to do things differently to fix it. Like bones, food, etc.
Jugginator
Tester
Thank you. The damn game description has TOWER DEFENSE ZOMBIE KILLING in it! It's saying, "In this game, you're naked and afraid, you have 7 days to get your ass in gear to survive the zombie horde coming for you" And... look at the name: 7 Days TO DIE
And I guess options are too hard too, I guess you guys will have to implement them in difficulty settings lol.
My pet peeve in 15 and 16 was the game told me, "This is an open-world voxel game with deadly zombies and survival aspects, you can try to survive but you will die." And I played it... and only died to bugs or me being silly, zombies couldn't touch me or my base. I built freaking wood cabins with modified blood moon spawning and jacked up difficulty and banning guns aside from the blunderbuss and they still couldn't get to me. Pissed me and everyone I knew on Steam off and we left it. Now that it's playing how it was meant to be "Omg too hurd fail game gimmie back casual flower-picking mode plz" It's not perfect, but it's playing like it was meant to be.
Jugginator
Tester
So.. we're going to ignore wood/iron spikes, blade/shotgun/SMG/flamethrower/electric fence traps? Building a small 2-deep moat and filling it with more traps/landmines/campfires? If walls took half an hour to get through, then traps would make it impenetrable. Like a15 and 16 was. That makes for one boring tower defense game.
new7daylive
New member
I'd like to see damage toned down quite a bit for zeds. Having them concentrate in one area is already good - means we have to react to a situation.
To watch a blood moon horde do the 'hot knife through butter' routine to columns is a bit much. We did a day 14 horde in the parking garage and felt the need to install 16 or 18 additional columns and hundreds of barbed wire to protect the reinforced concrete columns. They still smashed 7 columns in what was a 1hr horde. If the horde is big, lasts all night and does moderate damage, it will still be challenging.
its like that barn door Madmole refers to - a group of people dont slice it apart in seconds. They slowly overwhelm it with shear force of numbers. If the zeds do that, Ill be happier.
To watch a blood moon horde do the 'hot knife through butter' routine to columns is a bit much. We did a day 14 horde in the parking garage and felt the need to install 16 or 18 additional columns and hundreds of barbed wire to protect the reinforced concrete columns. They still smashed 7 columns in what was a 1hr horde. If the horde is big, lasts all night and does moderate damage, it will still be challenging.
its like that barn door Madmole refers to - a group of people dont slice it apart in seconds. They slowly overwhelm it with shear force of numbers. If the zeds do that, Ill be happier.