PC Steam reviews - I kinda figured

How? its a step in the right direction honestly...
Previously, you could hide and completely avoid the horde with minimal effort.

Now you have to fight them...there are plenty of exploits for the new AI sure, but the passive "i just sit in my base/underground and keep doing what i was doing and the fact that there is a horde at all is no consequence" is gone, and the exploits generally revolve around forcing the horde down predetermined paths where the players actively kill them.
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But if you skipped the horde, then you missed out on all the XP and loot. There was no risk and no reward. Fine, play that way.

Now, there is effectively no loot from the zombies. So half the reward is gone, and we're also forced to take the risk. I'm sure people will love that.

If they wanted people to always fight the BM horde, then they should have used positive reinforcement. IE - Give the BM horde a chance of dropping legendary items or consumables that you could only get that way. Give people a greater reward to encourage them to play that way. Don't add road blocks in front of every other playstyle.

 
they do have positive reinforcement....the horde is the best source of xp-per-time in the game atm.

your point is valid though....since the swap to xp-only advancement, those cave-dwelling people would be missing out on several levels of advancement every 7 days by avoiding...it seemed a redundant change to reward fighting and force fighting at the same time.

 
*sigh* You completely misunderstood my post about so many things... Also, I mentioned killing 5000+ zombies and you think the game is hard for me? SMH.
In short gamers like options. More options = more different playstyles. Having more options doesn't affect you, unless you have to change the default to something else. Having more options allows people to choose how they want to play the game. Why should you care if I want to play the game a certain way? If I want to disable zombies, let me, it's my game. If I want to hide underground on horde night, let me, it's MY GAME. Are you the zombie police? TFP allowed this 'exploit' for a very long time and suddenly changed that feature. So of course there will be people who play a certain style will ask for a toggle feature. Again, how does ADDING that toggle feature, affect you?
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There comes a moment when you have to decide between having a full on sandbox game or having an actual survival game. This game is a survival game, with elements of tower defense and waves of enemies that you have to fight off. I'm fine with having options, but I'm not fine with having too many of them that are completely unnecessary or that simply make the goal of the game absolutely pointless.

Also, I wasn't talking about you having difficulty with the game or not. I was talking about the people you mentioned that may find the game too difficult. Take notice that what I said also applies to experienced players as well. If you're just tired of fighting zombies, there's plenty of options to tweak already in order to fit your playstyle.

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How? its a step in the right direction honestly...
Previously, you could hide and completely avoid the horde with minimal effort.

Now you have to fight them...there are plenty of exploits for the new AI sure, but the passive "i just sit in my base/underground and keep doing what i was doing and the fact that there is a horde at all is no consequence" is gone, and the exploits generally revolve around forcing the horde down predetermined paths where the players actively kill them.
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This guy gets it.

 
Why even have zombies on if you are just going to hide underground? Since when should zombies drop amazing loot? They aren't meant to be a delivery service of loot that's just nonsense go out and find the loot in buildings. All these people whine and complain about the zombies do way to much block damage, here is the solution change the block durability to 200% along with a lower difficulty settings so they don't wreck your base. I mean if you want crazy easy zombies and uber loot just put the game at the easiest setting, air drops every day, 200% loot abundance and 200% block durability.

With so many folks complaining I can see why the old easy mode of WAR of the walkers mod was so popular and then when the difficulty got bumped just a bit people whined and complained so much.

 
Why even have zombies on if you are just going to hide underground? Since when should zombies drop amazing loot? They aren't meant to be a delivery service of loot that's just nonsense go out and find the loot in buildings. All these people whine and complain about the zombies do way to much block damage, here is the solution change the block durability to 200% along with a lower difficulty settings so they don't wreck your base. I mean if you want crazy easy zombies and uber loot just put the game at the easiest setting, air drops every day, 200% loot abundance and 200% block durability.
With so many folks complaining I can see why the old easy mode of WAR of the walkers mod was so popular and then when the difficulty got bumped just a bit people whined and complained so much.
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The point is that there was a large group of people that enjoyed playing the way that they want and to deal with the horde at their leisure. There were builders, crafters and miners that enjoyed this game as well, and they are the majority of the people you see complaining about it, and this exactly the point of view that is alienating them from enjoying the game. 7dtd's lackluster version of zombie killing has never been a major selling point of this game and the Pimps can't just force it to be.

 
For the last 5 years you could survive (ya know, the goal of the game) by hiding underground. Now you can't, and some players don't like being forced to play TFP want them to play the game. At it's core, it's the idea that you can invest time into building a secure area below ground and reap the reward of being able to dictate when you engage the zombies threat. Similar thing is true about base building, which they seem hellbent on destroying the ability to passively defeat the bloodmoon wave as well. Why can't I survive by investing all my time into mining and building a mega base with spikes, turrets, blackjack and hookers and let them do all the work for me? No.... TFP say. We must make the zombies into concrete eating machines that will bore a hole through your base so that you have to fight.
When the subject is broached on underground, they don't even seem to want to meet us halfway and allow them to sense you to 10 or 20 meters but not at greater depths. Or go into the discussion of heat generation in combination of depth. They even reduced the depth of bedrock to ensure their balancing of zombie sensitivity on the surface wasn't hindered.

They don't even seem to understand the nature of the problem with base building.

The tower defense style choices for how to survive have been greatly diminished, because they think we're playing the game wrong. We're looking around going, what game have you been playing for the last 5 years?
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This is complete bs. In alpha 8-11 zombies dug under ground, under your base, and shredded forts.

 
One thing to keep in mind is that the number of reviews for any game is from maybe 1-2% of the players.

Just look at the the total number of reviews!

The ones who have an axe to grind for whatever reason see it as a way to "get back at" the developers while there is no real incentive for the content players to write a review.

And if I see a negative review after 300 hours played? Hmm. Looks like an interesting game. =)

This entire forum? Some 120 or 130k users out of millions of players. It may look big but it's a very very tiny pond for a big fish of players.

Or the other way around. You know what I mean, right? Can fish legally buy the game?

The point is that you're dealing with a tiny subset of the player base. Anyone proclaiming the be the voice of the majority is flat out guessing because the majority is simply not here.

 
I've played over 1,000 hours, 90% of that single player, and I've killed literally thousands of zombies, 90% of them with a wooden club, spiked or otherwise. I set up bases on rooftops for the first couple weeks, then underground when a lot of zombie start running in the daytime.

TFP's vision, while previously focused on single-players like me, now seems focused on satisfying groups of player killer PVP folks who go in guns blazing to shoot everything that moves. That's just not how I play it, and I know there's a lot of people who enjoy the single-player game just as I do.

 
One thing to keep in mind is that the number of reviews for any game is from maybe 1-2% of the players.Just look at the the total number of reviews!

The ones who have an axe to grind for whatever reason see it as a way to "get back at" the developers while there is no real incentive for the content players to write a review.

And if I see a negative review after 300 hours played? Hmm. Looks like an interesting game. =)

This entire forum? Some 120 or 130k users out of millions of players. It may look big but it's a very very tiny pond for a big fish of players.

Or the other way around. You know what I mean, right? Can fish legally buy the game?

The point is that you're dealing with a tiny subset of the player base. Anyone proclaiming the be the voice of the majority is flat out guessing because the majority is simply not here.
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That's why Steam lets you search by review date. It's particularly valuable since the game has been publicly released for so long. Look at the reviews since A17 stable dropped. ~36% are positive....

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This is complete bs. In alpha 8-11 zombies dug under ground, under your base, and shredded forts.
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Not to the degree they do now. And A12 released in July of 2015. That's only 3.5 years ago, not 5. My bad.

 
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One of the problems I see with zombie block damage is that it was increased for A15/16 playstyles in mind but then the new progression system came with A17 and now the damage is seen as a problem, particularly in the early game. The progression system slows down how fast you can unlock study materials and the rate at which you can acquire materials is also reduced because tool effectiveness was also nerfed early game to account for perks and mods.

 
One thing to keep in mind is that the number of reviews for any game is from maybe 1-2% of the players.Just look at the the total number of reviews!

The ones who have an axe to grind for whatever reason see it as a way to "get back at" the developers while there is no real incentive for the content players to write a review.

And if I see a negative review after 300 hours played? Hmm. Looks like an interesting game. =)

This entire forum? Some 120 or 130k users out of millions of players. It may look big but it's a very very tiny pond for a big fish of players.

Or the other way around. You know what I mean, right? Can fish legally buy the game?

The point is that you're dealing with a tiny subset of the player base. Anyone proclaiming the be the voice of the majority is flat out guessing because the majority is simply not here.
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Ignorance is bliss.

 
This is complete bs. In alpha 8-11 zombies dug under ground, under your base, and shredded forts.
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I know this might surprise you, but alpha 12 was released 3.5 years ago.

So no not for the last 5 years... only for 3 1/2. which doesnt change the point of poojam at all.

 
The changes to the biomes was unnecessary and an extremely poor decision, maps look like bland garbage now. As a server operator, the digging zombies is a #*()$ nightmare, I have cancelled my bluefang subscription and will not be hosting another 7dtd server until this mess of a decision is fixed. Optimization has steadily got worse with every alpha, multiplayer aspect has always been on the back burner and the digging zombies just ♥♥♥♥ all over MP servers, players and expecially server operators. It is so easy to grief people using zeds now, it is no fun, point blank. Land claims are useless when you can have zeds undermine your foes base.
I could go on and on and on, but no need, I'm not here to knock the devs, but I certainly want them to know that THIS is the alpha that killed the game for me, as a player and a server operator.
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- RWG is nowhere near done so I'm holding off on judging Biomes.

- RWG is nowhere near done so I'm holding off on judging Maps/Road/Towns/etc.

- Digging zombies should replace whatever they dig with dirt or destroyed stone.

You're right, on a server it's just no good.

I can understand your frustration.

There's still work to be done with A17.

 
One thing to keep in mind is that the number of reviews for any game is from maybe 1-2% of the players.Just look at the the total number of reviews!

This entire forum? Some 120 or 130k users out of millions of players.
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Really not trying to be argumentive here, but sales do not equal current players. We have tools like steam charts and the steam achievements themselves to see just how many people are currently playing, and how many have bought and never played or stopped playing. I would argue therefore that this is'nt as small a minority as you claim. Just having a quick look at global achievements:

59.2% have ever made a stone axe.

30% have killed 10 zombies.

13.5% with a score of 500 or more in a game.

I think its safe to assume that with statistics like those a lot of these guys either did'nt play long or have'nt played much yet, I don't know what your sales figures are but those percentages are low for being such easy things to do in game.

 
And if I see a negative review after 300 hours played? Hmm. Looks like an interesting game. =)
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You just shelf life'd your game at around 300 hours when some of us have over 4k hours and are just NOW disappointed.

The fact that none of you see this as an issue is the biggest problem here. You seem to think most of us are just having a knee jerk reaction, or that we are overreacting. You're not actually seeing the bigger problem, and that is for years you have had loyal supporters who white knighted every single thing (myself included) you did but this Alpha has managed to turn even THOSE loyalists away from your game.

This isn't about some rook with 90 hours quitting, or a new player being thrown by negative reviews. The overwhelmingly negative response is real. There's a thing called "trending". And ignoring those trends is foolish. You are trying to take some imaginary "majority of players never write a review" faction and banking on those numbers being MORE loyal and more accepting of these changes. Truth is for every person who is happy and does not review, there's another who is just as upset and uninstalls and leaves NO review. That pendulum swings both ways.

The numbers will tell the story though. A month from now, a year from now.

 
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You just shelf life'd your game at around 300 hours when some of us have over 4k hours and are just NOW disappointed.The fact that none of you see this as an issue is the biggest problem here. You seem to think most of us are just having a knee jerk reaction, or that we are overreacting. You're not actually seeing the bigger problem, and that is for years you have had loyal supporters who white knighted every single thing (myself included) you did but this Alpha has managed to turn even THOSE loyalists away from your game.

This isn't about some rook with 90 hours quitting, or a new player being thrown by negative reviews. The overwhelmingly negative response is real. There's a thing called "trending". And ignoring those trends is foolish. You are trying to take some imaginary "majority of players never write a review" faction and banking on those numbers being MORE loyal and more accepting of these changes. Truth is for every person who is happy and does not review, there's another who is just as upset and uninstalls and leaves NO review. That pendulum swings both ways.

The numbers will tell the story though. A month from now, a year from now.
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Gazz: This entire forum? Some 120 or 130k users out of millions of players. It may look big but it's a very very tiny pond for a big fish of players.

With the most dismissive sentence by a member of the TFP Dev Team to date, he kind of let you know that your opinion doesn't really matter. We, the disappointed of the direction of the game (Fallout/Skyrim clone), have already paid and they're now interested in the "NEW" fishes out there.

You and your opinions will be... forgotten.

TY

 
I used to love to build bunkers as my loot and crafting area. This stopped with a15 though when they made it so everything collapses as soon as you dig a few blocks. That killed mining for me so a17 digging zombies don't make or break it, mining has been broken for a while. I've been getting my ore top side since a 15.

Also, the myth of the "tiny vocal minority" has been debunked ages ago. Many many people don't take the time to go on a forum and post if they don't like the game, the only ones that do post are 7D junkies like us who can't get enoigh of this game.

 
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I've played over 1,000 hours, 90% of that single player, and I've killed literally thousands of zombies, 90% of them with a wooden club, spiked or otherwise. I set up bases on rooftops for the first couple weeks, then underground when a lot of zombie start running in the daytime.
TFP's vision, while previously focused on single-players like me, now seems focused on satisfying groups of player killer PVP folks who go in guns blazing to shoot everything that moves. That's just not how I play it, and I know there's a lot of people who enjoy the single-player game just as I do.
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I mostly play single player so I don't think you have much to worry about. Its good that MP gets some attention too though.

 
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