PC Some A17 thoughts
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Hey MM. Just curious any idea if the next update will give RWG some love. It really is not vary good at the moment in my opinion. I do love all of the other changes though. I believe you all have done a fantastic job with this update and look forward to more tweaking. Also when any idea if the next update will be out before the end of the year or are you all taking a much needed rest until after the New Year. Thanks again
SilverWolf
New member
I swear man, if mobile forum template wasn't so awful and plain, this lurker would upvote all of you posts in this section every single day, as you and few other mod oldies always seem so concise(without random gifs and my prof said "wisdoms") and on target.
I would maybe only add onto this, we expected some innovations to the system, content, buuut... Yea, I'll go back to lurking, don't want to step on anyone's toes.
Roland
Moderator
Here is an actual example. 25% loot option is now broken because of the changes. I’ve seen at least two posts and a started thread demanding/asking TFP to get 25% loot fixed.
Well guess what? 25% loot isn’t the core of what they want to be working on right now. It’s a distraction. Now add 20 more options, some of which will completely change the progression and get broken by future changes.
I’m not sure what you keep going on about with your “full stop” and “are we having a discussion?” stuff but I suppose everyone does the forums in their own way. I agree with you that lots of options will be great but I disagree that right now is the time to do it especially as a way to avoid what the devs want us to test. Once their default desired settings are in place and they are done with the major changes..that’s when major options and alternative can be added.
Well, I partly agree. There are some ways to make your life easier still. Gardens, better tools, better weapons, better skills. I think it balances itself out on the level of "you always have to grind for your base at about the same pace, no matter how good you made your base".
Might have been an intention all along. To keep newer players interested for the whole journey. Makes the whole "tower defence" aspect pointless tho. Once player realises that he has been fooled into walking circles, he just loses interest to the game. This is why many veterans hate the changes, I guess.
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HerrKingsley
New member
Both skyrim and fallout are story driven and therefore helps the player through the progression.
That way the gates are not so obvious.
Also If you ventured to far away you would get slaughtered by high tire enemies and learned the hard way to get back to story progression.
7dtd dont have a story or high tire areas. Just unreversable game stage.
JaxTeller718
New member
Finally. You are dead on.
I agree 100 percent on this philosophy of NOT balancing or fixing, but yanking and overhauling. If they weren't happy with 16's actions and perks then fix it. Hell my Scavengers mod I reworked the entire progression system PER WEAPON AND TOOL. Meaning every time you used the wood club ONLY the wood club levelled. Then I dropped spam crafting by tying the craft quality INTO the action on the weapon. So crafting 30 clubs did not make you better at it, but using the club and REPAIRING the club levelled the craft quality.
I cant fathom how anyone can say THAT idea is dumb and not engaging gameplay but killing 200 zeds and dropping random points into random categories IS.
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25 percent loot broke because someone decided we just HAD to change every single aspect of the game, including loot probability templates. It was fine BEFORE 17. If the entire system had not been yanked, that would have never happened.
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Viktoriusiii
New member
Skyrim levelgated? Did I miss something?
Where does it say: "You can not level up your 1h right now, since you aren't level 30"?
And I cannot speak about fallout, but I harshly doubt that they would implement that sort of thing...
I feel you do not understand what a "level gate" is.
It is a level requirement that is gating skills behind a level requirement (who would have guessed)
If you can't learn a skill because it requires a certain skill or progression in the story, that is not levelgated.
Perk-gated, progression-gated, whatever. But levelgates are something special. They incentiviese hunting for xp and ignoring everything else. Which is why it is sooo much worse than any other sort of "gate".
JaxTeller718
New member
Can someone gift MM a survival game package on Steam? One with The Long Dark, The Forest, Fear the Night etc in it? Fallout and Skyrim are great and all don't get me wrong but I definitely didn't expect the direction of 7 Days to sway towards those games.
Roland
Moderator
That was one example of a simple option. You can’t know what would’ve happened but that’s not the point. The devs are not going to work crosswise against their own development by adding in user requested options before it’s time to do so. The game is complex and it is impossible to predict what will or will not break because of changes. If it was so easy to know then there would never be any bugs.
Optional play modes are a distraction during this phase. They are working hard to find the right balance for the current default progression. Why would they want to add theee more optional progressions to test and balance before their main one is done?
w00kien00kie
New member
Jax, stop playing with the forum trolls and send me the dll!
Deceptive Pastry
New member
Just jumping in to agree with the absurdity of claiming a flaw with one aspect of a system requires scrapping the whole system instead of fixing the flaw. There were multiple easy solutions to stone axe spam crafting that I've given on other threads. Diminishing returns, or higher XP multiplier and higher XP gains on next tier of materials so once you hit lvl ~30 in crafting stone axes barely level you and you need to start making iron tools to keep leveling, or separate stone tools from iron entirely, etc. There are lots of discussions to be had about balance but nothing gets on my nerves more here than people saying a minor flaw or one very specific leveling exploit required the whole system to be scrapped. Ultimately it is the way it is now because they thought they came up with a cool system for perks and wanted to implement it, perhaps also figuring it would be easier to balance.
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SilverWolf
New member
Maaaaybe skip the Long Dark, else we won't have any skill system, broken or not.
The loot is better? I've gotten a candlestick and hmm.. something equally useless a couple times. You see that bag drop and you typically think it should be good. but then...candlestick. pah.
The rest of the time is a gun you'll scrap or some ammo which is ok.
As for not getting specific gear, I agree it would be nice to have the stereotypical stuff they drop, but they wouldn't always have it of course.
And for miners/workers with the helmets not always dropping a hat, I just look at it as I'm wanging the dude in the head with a spike club (pre alpha 17 anyways when it wasn't so hard to get) and figure I've wrecked the hat. Same with the clothes, punched all kinds of holes in it, so it's not usable.
Would be nice if the game was accurate enough that when they're wearing clothes, if you shoot them only in the face to kill them then the hat would be unharmed. but that may be more work than it's worth.
I'm sure there's some guys on here that wish they could be running around in the nurse outfit. Could be pretty funny on a MP server.
OzHawkeye
Community Moderator
When the game goes gold, I expect I'll be modding a similar system to this (if we can). I'll have to remember to keep an eye out for your mod when that happens.
0 xp for crafting, skill leveling solely through use. 0 gates. (I'll also be looking for a way to remove XP as much as possible I guess).
JoelleEmmily
New member
Good point sir, and an excellent example, you're truly insightful, the 25% loot option is way more important than whatever crap I was going on about. I'm just selfish, I want to too much, and I should be far more concerned with how TFP wants me to test their product. And thank you sir, for correcting me, it makes me a better person. I will surely wait for the appropriate time to bring up my selfish desires you so skillfully lambasted during our discussions, because they don't really matter, and the game requires what I'm against. You've made me a better person.
Deceptive Pastry
New member
As far as level gates, I was thinking while modding progression that it is a bit difficult to balance progression properly without the level gates. Like you wouldn't want people crafting rocket launchers at level 20 right? But then I was thinking...if someone wants to spend 25 levels putting points in nothing but intelligence and forge to get steel at say lvl 25...why not? They are accepting the downsides of having no combat/quality of life perks and having the game be a bit more difficult in other aspects as a result. Like Viktorious said, it's people deciding "WHAT parts of the game they wanted to skip." If people want to focus on building right off the bat, they can go straight for building perks and accept the downsides of being worse at combat/having to eat more/not being able to carry as much when looting etc. Or they have a more balanced build and get the tech a bit later. I was on the fence about level gates for a while but I think I'm finally coming down on the side against them.