PC Some A17 thoughts

[JoelleEmmily]

Sliders for zombie run speed is one thing. Sliders for completely changing the progression system is another.

How?

[ ] Character level free progression

[ ] Start with all recipes

0.5x/2x/4x/8x XP awarded for zombie kills

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That is a good point. In this game we largely create the story ourselves and this is how I largely play by creating a story of living during a zombie apocalypse and I DONT notice the level gates very much at all.
The original trailer for the game talked about learning the story through found notes. So I’m not sure how involved of a canned story line there will actually be.

Unless they added one, Planet Nomads has no story. You're dropped on a planet, you mine, you kill for food, you build bases and vehicles.

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Played Ark and hated it = not happy/satisfied = true statement
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all the people all of the time” (John Lydgate)

The game doesn't matter... Ark has a lot of problems, the example was regarding the customization options you are presented before building a world. Unless you believe not liking the game, also invalidates all other aspects of it's design.

 

[Exxodous]

The game doesn't matter... Ark has a lot of problems, the example was regarding the customization options you are presented before building a world. Unless you believe not liking the game, also invalidates all other aspects of it's design.

No, just reiterating the fact it's impossible to make everyone happy all the time. So we as individuals must either adapt to or accept change based on our own idea of what is "good" game design.

 

[Aldranon]

Sliders for zombie run speed is one thing. Sliders for completely changing the progression system is another.

Consider this a discovery into creative ways to satisfy as many players as possible.

In the options menu, you can have the following:

-Starter quest points gained.

-Points gained per level.

-Minimum player levels needed for Perk tier, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

Each 6 difficulty settings should have presets (including current settings available), that players can modify.

Not impossible and the end results is a game more people would like to play.

 

[JoelleEmmily]

No, just reiterating the fact it's impossible to make everyone happy all the time. So we as individuals must either adapt to or accept change based on our own idea of what is "good" game design.

Alright, you're reiterating your statement, but continued to not provide an argument. "I don't like Ark." That's nice... Ark has a highly customizable menu before you begin the game to tailor your game play... "No, I'm just saying, you can't please everyone." DUDE! THE MENU! "I'm just saying..."

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Consider this a discovery into creative ways to satisfy as many players as possible.
In the options menu, you can have the following:

-Starter quest points gained.

-Points gained per level.

-Minimum player levels needed for Perk tier, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

Each 6 difficulty settings should have presets (including current settings available), that players can modify.

Not impossible and the end results is a game more people would like to play.

By jobe, I think he got it.

 

[crazyduck]

That’s easy to understand. They don’t share your priorities.

So Roland you say Madmole is not telling the Truth?

he said few days ago in another thread to me i should and could mod it if i dont like how the Devs Vision of Alpha 17 is, but if i cannot mod it cause the Devs dont add the needed things cause they dont share the Priorities to mod it then Madmole was not telling the truth.

Cause i cannot mod something if i cannot add a Description to something so Players understand what this item is needed for or how it works.

So no its not easy to understand, cause we are not talking about months of development, adding such a simple thing would not take much time and it would make modding much easier and user friendly.

 

[Mad_Dane]

This game actually appears to resemble the kickstarter finally. Its supposed to be an RPG. Finally we have quests and npcs and a real skill system. Everything else is essentially the same. We do need to properly balance it, but can you explain how its not fun for you now? How many hours have you played a17?

Kickstarter also promised tower defence, yet you gain no XP from trap kills, so building a base is almost completely pointless now, best strategy now is just ride a bike and kill them in the morning or play with always walk on.

The base now is just a glorified storage box!

 

[Roland]

By jobe, I think he got it.

The part you are not factoring in is balance. If they add in non-trivial options that change the progression of the game and make them official options then they are obligated to make sure those options play correctly.

Now is still not the time to add in such options just because players want to play it differently. Having to re-calibrate each option as development continues would take up time better spent elsewhere.

I don’t think anything is wrong with a rich selection of options and hope to see it eventually.

 

[Roland]

So Roland you say Madmole is not telling the Truth? he said few days ago in another thread to me i should and could mod it if i dont like how the Devs Vision of Alpha 17 is, but if i cannot mod it cause the Devs dont add the needed things cause they dont share the Priorities to mod it then Madmole was not telling the truth.

Cause i cannot mod something if i cannot add a Description to something so Players understand what this item is needed for or how it works.

So no its not easy to understand, cause we are not talking about months of development, adding such a simple thing would not take much time and it would make modding much easier and user friendly.

To say the devs are lying about making this game mod friendly because your most desired change hasn’t happened yet is ridiculous. “Priorities” doesn’t mean they won’t do it. It means that they’ll do it when they get to it. How do you know it is a simple thing?

Also it sounds like you can mod it to how you like but just can’t push the descriptions from server to client? Couldn’t you make the files downloadable to those who wish to join your server?

 

[Exxodous]

Alright, you're reiterating your statement, but continued to not provide an argument. "I don't like Ark." That's nice... Ark has a highly customizable menu before you begin the game to tailor your game play... "No, I'm just saying, you can't please everyone." DUDE! THE MENU! "I'm just saying..."

I'm saying that even with Ark's "highly customizable menu before you begin the game to tailor your game play" I was still unhappy with the way the game played ie the mechanics and progression.

Thus although sometimes beneficial, game options and sliders, do not solve all the problems or make all people happy with the game. In my humble opinion the ability to mod it to my liking is a far more important factor in a games ability to please more (not all) people. The modding option is there for anyone willing to put a little effort into, something some (not all) people are willing to invest in.

 

[Dimpy]

Just started playing A17. On day 4 or so...

I've been treating Game Stage like the heat map, something that attracts zombies. XP is something that is both good and bad, and so I just focus on surviving (and looting for resources) instead of grinding for levels. So far it's been a relaxed, almost fun experience.

(Not to say I have anything against a frantic yet horrifying slog through death, decay and destruction.)

 

[crazyduck]

To say the devs are lying about making this game mod friendly because your most desired change hasn’t happened yet is ridiculous. “Priorities” doesn’t mean they won’t do it. It means that they’ll do it when they get to it. How do you know it is a simple thing?
Also it sounds like you can mod it to how you like but just can’t push the descriptions from server to client? Couldn’t you make the files downloadable to those who wish to join your server?

Sure i could make a modified Localization file and tell people to download it and overwrite the vanilla One in the Data Directory.

to be honest that makes not that much sense. If a game is mod friendly push files from server to client then it shoudl share every modded file as long as its not a dll file which could be a risk for the players.

If the pimps would add a option to add own localization files to mod folder it would again be much easier so this file i pushed to the clients.

Currently you can only have items with no description or tell players who join your server to first go and download the icons then go and download the localization file and explain them to unpack the itemicons into mod folder and the localization file into the data directory of the game and after that you can be sure with each update the pimps release and change anything like adding new blocks removing blocks or descriptions the player must download again and overwrite again.

Its not userfriendly and we are not talking about some sort of very big changes to the game. Also you say my most desired change , if i use google i find many threads people complain about this issue or ask for a solution so it seems its not only my desired change.

And you ask how i know its a simple thing?True i dont know the Code of this game, but i dont think the Pimps write garbage code with no Structure and only dirty Workarounds. So adding something like a check if a item or block has a line called something like property Itemdesc or Blockdesc or whatever and if this line is present it use the text inside " " for the description is should be not hard to add.

if it is would be nice if you or one of the devs could drop me a message why it is such a big problem or so much work to add such a normal simple function like that to the current game.

And the lying part was not meant that i say they are lying. It was meant that if a dev tell me to mod the game to revert the stuff i dont like in alpha 17 but at same time not offering me the options to mod it or to mod it in a way to share it in a userfriendly way and then a mod tell sme it has no prioritie it sounds like they are not doing it. Thats how i did understnad your no prioritie comment if its not meant like that ok then i misunderstood you .

 

[HerrKingsley]

That is a good point. In this game we largely create the story ourselves and this is how I largely play by creating a story of living during a zombie apocalypse and I DONT notice the level gates very much at all.
The original trailer for the game talked about learning the story through found notes. So I’m not sure how involved of a canned story line there will actually be.

And that's what I personally having problems with. I want to roleplay a character in a world not roleplay the machanics like:

Roleplay that I found a recipe for bacon and eggs and then add a point..

Roleplay that I figured how to build a forge and then add a point..

Roleplay that I have practiced archery and then add a point.

If I had to do quests to get the last missing piece of the forge or buy it from a trader. I would be fine with it. Even though I prefer learning by doing.

 

[HerrKingsley]

Just started playing A17. On day 4 or so...I've been treating Game Stage like the heat map, something that attracts zombies. XP is something that is both good and bad, and so I just focus on surviving (and looting for resources) instead of grinding for levels. So far it's been a relaxed, almost fun experience.

(Not to say I have anything against a frantic yet horrifying slog through death, decay and destruction.)

Thing with heat maps is you can reduce it without any penalties if you feel it's getting too tough for you. Gamestage you have to die multiple times to reduce and then your stuck with the death buff.

Therefore areas with high tire enemies and loot would be nice.

 

[madmole]

I am so tired of you saying this. No one cares that you don't use explosive bolts or anything else that requires bulk duct tape. However, they are in the game and you will not have enough if you use them. So no, it is a "biggy". Why are you being so hard headed about this? Over 3/4 of recipes require duct tape. You are wrong about there being enough bones. Period.
Your personal vendetta against steel is equally disturbing. You have taken it to a level beyond hubris by having recipes that require gobs of steel 30 levels before the player can even make it.

I changed the recipe to 1 bone for 1 glue, so 2x the glue now. BTW, traders sell glue and duct tape. I can up the quantities they have pretty easy. Most of the recipes that need a lot of steel are huge game changing recipes you should not be able to spam craft, like high end vehicles. Ever play ark? An ascendant sniper rifle costs me like 2500 metal lol. We'll never be 10% as grindy as Ark.

 

[madmole]

As you might have noticed in my post, I said forget food and other items. But bones ARE there. Can't really hide them, you know. Holding the whole walking corpse together.
About coming out alive, thats not the problem, really, it is actually less troublesome to lead zeds away from your base and leave them /kill for the exp at day.

Facing zeds at your base is counter-productive. You dont get loot from them. You dont get xp when traps kill them. You have to repair/resupply those traps. All the disadvantages and no advantage at all. What is the incentive again?

Before, in a16. There were multiple motivations to face zeds at your base.

*It was safer and good build base could survive bloodmoon with minimal attention. 10 mins and you repaired it back like it was before. Now you would need hours to recover all you lost.

*You get loot from the zeds, that wasnt all that awful, especially from late game zeds, like military.

*you can resupply your glue storage with the bones.

*You level up your weapon skill. I often faced bloodmoons with weapons Im bad at. Pistols for example, to level them.

Now you removed all the reasons to face the wave. Why would I? What is the incentive for the player? Danger is not the answer, since there is none. You made zeds better at destroying bases. Not better at killing the player.

About duplication and carving 200 corpses, as was mentioned in my post, why not add 100 bones to every rare bag? Auto assuming, that you would have carved up all those corpses. Win win for both sides, I say.

You have some points, but isn't designing base you can survive in the reason you bought this game, not to be a bone farmer? I get really pissed and want to punch something if I die in any game so for me surviving is everything. There is XP to gain, I leveled up 3 times on the day 7 horde, so there is that motivation which is no different than skilling up your pistol in a16. We are going to increase the chance for loot drops a little.
At the end of the day we want everyone to enjoy the game. Its not taylored for the builders yet so that is something we're working on. I'm building a mega castle so we'll see how hard it is and make adjustments as needed. Playing as a rogue scavenger who uses mostly melee is working well but other play styles need some love for sure.

Everyone has different things they like or ways to play. For you its a reward, for me its not dying because I take pride in 0 deaths, and building a nice castle I know has so many fall back rooms that no matter what horde comes I'm not goind gown. I have my escape hatch and coffee maybe a vehicle ready to run as long as it takes. Preparation and plans pay off usually.

 

[Aldranon]

Just started playing A17. On day 4 or so...I've been treating Game Stage like the heat map, something that attracts zombies. XP is something that is both good and bad, and so I just focus on surviving (and looting for resources) instead of grinding for levels. So far it's been a relaxed, almost fun experience.

(Not to say I have anything against a frantic yet horrifying slog through death, decay and destruction.)

A17 Gamestage is a lot like a donkey chasing the "Carrot on a stick" that can slowly get further away.

1) The faster you level the faster GS rises (plus days alive)

If you level too slow, GS will grow faster than your potential strength because of Days Alive in the GS formula.

2) Potential Strength is from useful loot and strong perks and what will keep the player alive in the long run.

Useful loot is mostly found in well guarded POI's. Leaving players that don't attack POI's falling behind to the point of needing them to die to reset the imbalance.

 

[madmole]

The poll I'm referring to is of course the "poll" posted by your moderator Roland. This poll is the only thing that we have that indicates what the majority of players want/don't want, but you keep using the 'most players' phrase as if they agree with you and the direction that A17 has gone. The poll says otherwise.
Just because someone, and in fact, as the poll suggests, most of us, disagree does not mean we are "whiners", or ''biased''.

Our forums are composed of mostly hardcore veterans who are vocal. The average player is not hardcore nor vocal. Anyhow we love all you guys input and are working hard to make as many people happy as possible.

Here's what I just checked in:

+Changed: Glue requires only 1 bone now instead of 2. (Joel)

+Added: Traders now sell glue (Joel)

+Changed: Reduced price of glue it was more expensive than duct tape (Joel)

There's already a beefy list of tweaks. Everyone is biased and need to give A17 a chance, and each patch a chance. We'll get it tuned in. The stamina system is a great example of something misunderstood that isn't punishing at all. Like most people didn't know sexual trex reduces mining stamina use, not just melee stamina use.

 

[JoelleEmmily]

The part you are not factoring in is balance. If they add in non-trivial options that change the progression of the game and make them official options then they are obligated to make sure those options play correctly.
Now is still not the time to add in such options just because players want to play it differently. Having to re-calibrate each option as development continues would take up time better spent elsewhere.

I don’t think anything is wrong with a rich selection of options and hope to see it eventually.

Please explain what is being balanced, and how an imbalance of that would impact game play to a negative degree... and how it is not arbitrary... Wait... never mind... I get it... no argument I put forward maters, no example I give will be sufficient... this is not a discussion, it is you telling me what you think... full stop. I'mma gonna try force of nature now... I really should look at my inventory more often.

 

[madmole]

A lot of my problems with this alpha are things that got removed. Can I mod the plains biome back in? I'm doubtful. Can I mod gore blocks back in? Maybe. Can I enjoy these on multiplayer mods on multiplayer? Almost certainly no.

All the plains biome did was increase RAM requirements. By nuking those few trees and the special grounds of the two uneeded biomes memory went from 5.8 gb to 2.8. That biome had nothing interesting in it, and too many biome transitions makes random gen a mess.

 

[fazi]

A17 Gamestage is a lot like a donkey chasing the "Carrot on a stick" that can slowly get further away.
1) The faster you level the faster GS rises (plus days alive)

If you level too slow, GS will grow faster than your potential strength because of Days Alive in the GS formula.

2) Potential Strength is from useful loot and strong perks and what will keep the player alive in the long run.

Useful loot is mostly found in well guarded POI's. Leaving players that don't attack POI's falling behind to the point of needing them to die to reset the imbalance.

useful loot has to be hard to get, so you have satisfaction and motivation.There is nothing forcing you to lvl, maybe the need of a forge and bike, after that you can stop and build and lvl slower.Game stage is really needed, in A16 i used to loot the skyscrapers in my first days with a bow and a club and get almost everything i needed.This game needs challenge and things to do, there is no point in having a big RWG map in there is no need to explore it, or the possibility to play for 1000 days if you have everything by day 28...