PC Some A17 thoughts

Because people will then complain about RNG. When "luck" controls your progression people get cranky too. We've seen that before many times with the forge ahead book, calipers, minibike book etc.
Yes we had that #gate before.

I personally like RNG stopping my progress.

That's when your true survival skill as a player comes in to play.

The game forces you to adapt. Getting it served like in A17 isnt making the game harder as some ppl here tends to think.

It's just a matter of killed zds before you unlock it.

In RNG you can never be certain and you need to have a backup plan.

 
If I had the purple crayon, I’d remove xp from everything and then award 1 point per day survived. If you die you get no point for that day.
If I had the purple crayon(BTW, what's that in reference to), I would also remove XP, but I would also have no point system. I'd use an under-the-hood set of mechanics that improved the quality of your cooking, the more you did it, bettered the effectiveness of your weapons the more you used them, increase the quality of your crafting the more you crafted and repaired; then, I'd put a slow decay on everything. Being able to craft steal? Cement? Only limited by the resources you could find. Then... I'd make the zombies more interested in you the longer you lived, and the more you interacted with them... with specialized zombies being more attracted to your base the bigger or more complex it was... Zombie deaths attracting more zombies, so traps would eventually wear down...

And death? Either, that's it, your done, start over... Or the under-the-hood mechanics take a big wet bite out of your butt and make you work for all your quality again.

 
Yes we had that #gate before. I personally like RNG stopping my progress.

That's when your true survival skill as a player comes in to play.

The game forces you to adapt. Getting it served like in A17 isnt making the game harder as some ppl here tends to think.

It's just a matter of killed zds before you unlock it.

In RNG you can never be certain and you need to have a backup plan.
Again it's a matter of preference isn't it? There is no way for TFP to meet everyone's preference on every game mechanic or structure. But they have allowed us the ability to mod almost every preference, guess that's why I enjoy the game so much. What I don't like I mod, what can't be modded I find ways to adapt and accept the challenge.

 
Don't be condescending.

A16 did a pretty good job.

So can you, and by the poll you're in the minority.
I'll agree that telling someone to play creative mode isn't a good answer to a game that can't suit multiple player styles, even though the devs seem to be interesting in fulfilling as many as they can.

I'll disagree about polls however as the data isn't "True" Data, its data that is collected based on your current "Forum" population and not really the entirety of the game population.

People call me a minority because I belong to the PVP group, however PVPers outnumber PVErs by a huge number, they just don't bother to come here , they just play a different game .

Again it's a matter of preference isn't it? There is no way for TFP to meet everyone's preference on every game mechanic or structure. But they have allowed us the ability to mod almost every preference, guess that's why I enjoy the game so much. What I don't like I mod, what can't be modded I find ways to adapt and accept the challenge.
We should mod the things that we want to enhance or accentuate , not mod out because they simply suck by design.

 
Because people will then complain about RNG. When "luck" controls your progression people get cranky too. We've seen that before many times with the forge ahead book, calipers, minibike book etc.
With the addition of traders quests, they could install stop gaps if RNGesus is being spiteful.

Player hits a certain level.

A quest popup notifies you that the trader has a new quest that they need your assistance on.

Here's a list of possible rewards you can select from if you accept it..

  • "Forge Ahead" book
  • "Calipers"
  • "mini bike for dummies"
  • etc,.

 
We should mod the things that we want to enhance or accentuate , not mod out because they simply suck by design.
Again, what you find "sucks by design" may not match my opinion of the design. Your opinion is of course just as valid as mine, but the question is whom do they make "happy" because it's obvious if our opinions or playstyles differ we both can't be happy, can we?

 
With the addition of traders quests, they could install stop gaps if RNGesus is being spiteful.Player hits a certain level.

A quest popup notifies you that the trader has a new quest that they need your assistance on.

Here's a list of possible rewards you can select from if you accept it..

  • "Forge Ahead" book
  • "Calipers"
  • "mini bike for dummies"
  • etc,.
Sounds like a great idea to me. I feel like those of us that don't like the A17 change are just beating the proverbial dead horse at this time. Madmole has already said in numerous threads (paraphrasing) to get over it, TFP will not revert to books or learn by doing, ect.

 
With the addition of traders quests, they could install stop gaps if RNGesus is being spiteful.Player hits a certain level.

A quest popup notifies you that the trader has a new quest that they need your assistance on.

Here's a list of possible rewards you can select from if you accept it..

  • "Forge Ahead" book
  • "Calipers"
  • "mini bike for dummies"
  • etc,.
Not a bad idea at all Tin. My guess is some will still see it as a level gate of sorts but interesting mechanic nonetheless.

 
Again it's a matter of preference isn't it? There is no way for TFP to meet everyone's preference on every game mechanic or structure.
This is a completely false statement, and I suspect you're using it as your goto strawman. The Fun Pimps can absolutely satisfy everyone, even if a person do not know how to mod. Ark has sliders, check boxes, and all the way back in the days of tetris, games had modes... But you keep pushing the narrative that if you don't like it, mod it, or play creative, and looking back on your comments, you present no nuance... just one message, repeated ad infinitum... do what I do...

 
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Again it's a matter of preference isn't it? There is no way for TFP to meet everyone's preference on every game mechanic or structure. But they have allowed us the ability to mod almost every preference, guess that's why I enjoy the game so much. What I don't like I mod, what can't be modded I find ways to adapt and accept the challenge.
To some degree. If a system is presented that is achieving the goal better than the way I prefer it I'll accept it gladly. Like a16. I enjoy grinding and had no problem with spam crafting. But a16.4 handled progression better than a15.

Ability to mod is hands down the best feature this game has!

 
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What is your definition of an RPG? Or rather, your gold standard? Is it Fallout? Than I would say 7 Days is about on par... but is it Final Fantasy? It's been a looooooooong time since I played FF1, but I don't remember level gates. Yes, there was fire1, fire2, and so on, but you got access to those if you had the gold, and reach the area, AND the monsters progressed with you. The only "gate," was "Evolving," or whatever they called it, from your childish form, to your adult form... then you could use the second half of the spells and armour. Vampire the Masquerade? Yes, the game had a point system, but no level lockouts... You could literally dump every point you have into mental and knowledge, or you could max out talents like intimidate and stealth... and the pen a paper version? It was up to the dungeon master what he wanted to do... and if he tried to level gate someone, he'd be getting his soda poured down his pants.
I can’t tell if you are joking or not...

1) The original concept/ elevator pitch for this game was Minecraft meets Fallout meets The Walking Dead. Maybe making you aware of this is all that is necessary.

2) Skipping over dozens of Final Fantasy sequels to go back to the one you sort of remember? I have many clear memories of several FF games where I needed to wait to level up before getting the next power or ability. FF has used different innovative ways to reinvent progression trees but they were still trees-meaning you had to wait for the most powerful abilities.

3) I’m not saying there aren’t examples of games that don’t use level gates but I’m not going to cherry pick to try and prove one way of doing it is the best. Both methods are legit and can be used for progression. Both methods are preferred by different players.

I’ve seen posts for and against the current system vs the previous system.

 
Sounds like a great idea to me. I feel like those of us that don't like the A17 change are just beating the proverbial dead horse at this time. Madmole has already said in numerous threads (paraphrasing) to get over it, TFP will not revert to books or learn by doing, ect.
I neither hate, nor like, the perk system. It doesn't bother me all that much. Still think the perks need to be fleshed out more.

*If I had it my way*

A starting player should be able to feel like they can reach "end-game", without needing to use perks. Perks should be nothing more than accents that the player can get, but not a need. Right now, some perks "feel like" they are needed in order get to the point, that the character is halfway capable.

Not a bad idea at all Tin. My guess is some will still see it as a level gate of sorts but interesting mechanic nonetheless.
I wouldn't really call it a level gate, since the quest itself wouldn't really be a 'need', but more a 'want' to accomplish. You could still choose to allow rng to dictate your playing in finding certain items, or You can accept the quest since your luck isn't turning out well.

 
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Aren't these games you are referring to mainly story based?

I wound think that's why the gates arent as obvious for the player. And why it works so well in these games.

About that. What's the plan for the storyline or the lore in 7dtd?

 
This is a completely false statement, and I suspect you're using it as your goto strawman. The Fun Pimps can absolutely satisfy everyone, even if a person do not know how to mod. Ark has sliders, check boxes, and all the way back in the days of tetris, games had modes... But you keep pushing the narrative that if you don't like it, mod it, or play creative, and looking back on your comments, you present no nuance... just one message, repeated ad infinitum... do what I do...
Played Ark and hated it = not happy/satisfied = true statement

“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all the people all of the time” (John Lydgate)

 
This is a completely false statement, and I suspect you're using it as your goto strawman. The Fun Pimps can absolutely satisfy everyone, even if a person do not know how to mod. Ark has sliders, check boxes, and all the way back in the days of tetris, games had modes... But you keep pushing the narrative that if you don't like it, mod it, or play creative, and looking back on your comments, you present no nuance... just one message, repeated ad infinitum... do what I do...
Sliders for zombie run speed is one thing. Sliders for completely changing the progression system is another.

 
I can’t tell if you are joking or not...
1) The original concept/ elevator pitch for this game was Minecraft meets Fallout meets The Walking Dead. Maybe making you aware of this is all that is necessary.

2) Skipping over dozens of Final Fantasy sequels to go back to the one you sort of remember? I have many clear memories of several FF games where I needed to wait to level up before getting the next power or ability. FF has used different innovative ways to reinvent progression trees but they were still trees-meaning you had to wait for the most powerful abilities.

3) I’m not saying there aren’t examples of games that don’t use level gates but I’m not going to cherry pick to try and prove one way of doing it is the best. Both methods are legit and can be used for progression. Both methods are preferred by different players.

I’ve seen posts for and against the current system vs the previous system.
I am not joking... but nor am I saying it should be done one way or the other because of X, all I've done is give examples of "RPGs" where such mechanics are not used... You were the one who said, "Now you named a whole slew of games that are survival but not rpg’s that don’t use gating of some sort to save better powers for higher levelled characters." I then countered your argument with one of my own using examples... But you accuse me of chary picking? Yet choose to point out Final Fantasy as your example of how my argument is ill contrived? And you attempt to debase my argument by suggesting it's laughable?

I'm not sure, but are we having a discussion? A debate? Are we attempting to tease out the finer details of what represents good game design? Sighting examples of what we prefer? Or are you telling me what you think... Full stop.

 
Sounds like a great idea to me. I feel like those of us that don't like the A17 change are just beating the proverbial dead horse at this time. Madmole has already said in numerous threads (paraphrasing) to get over it, TFP will not revert to books or learn by doing, ect.
True madmole said they will not revert anything from the Alpha 17 changes.

But dead horse dont think so, i already added back books for recipes and Schematics for recipes and removed all unlocks from the skills.

But to make this work on a server the Pimps need to add 1 little thing people ask since some time. Custom Item Descriptions wihtout modding the Localization file cause this file is not shared like the xml files.

Without such a custom description its stupid cause now someone woudl find on my server a book called guns and dont know which recipes it will unlock cause i have no chance to write that into the description.

And that is something i really dont understand, they have time to rewrite 80% of the game to add stuff many people dont like but they dont have the time to add 1 simple function to the game some people asking for years now.

 
Aren't these games you are referring to mainly story based?I wound think that's why the gates arent as obvious for the player. And why it works so well in these games.

About that. What's the plan for the storyline or the lore in 7dtd?
That is a good point. In this game we largely create the story ourselves and this is how I largely play by creating a story of living during a zombie apocalypse and I DONT notice the level gates very much at all.

The original trailer for the game talked about learning the story through found notes. So I’m not sure how involved of a canned story line there will actually be.

 
And that is something i really dont understand, they have time to rewrite 80% of the game to add stuff many people dont like but they dont have the time to add 1 simple function to the game some people asking for years now.
That’s easy to understand. They don’t share your priorities.

 
That’s easy to understand. They don’t share your priorities.
I appreciate straight-forwardness, but at the same time they tout "if you don't like it, mod it" and claim to be modder friendly. If modders have been asking for that for years, why not take a moment and add it?

 
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