PC Smart vs Dumb Zombies?

Smart vs Dumb Zombies?

  • The zombie behavior of pre-A17

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • The zombie behavior of post-A17

    Votes: 0 0.0%
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they just needed to fix the spinning... the zombies now are way worse than before. some will sit there and smash a floor for no reason...some will just turn and walk away mid fight. they jump like they have rockets to go down instead of just walking off an edge and can be "kited" through a maze like a buncha dumdums ,among some other derpy behavior im sure some people can point out.

also the fact that they all go attack the weakest point and avoid all the traps doesnt make them seem "smart". its just bad and immersion breaking and total weaksauce .

smart zombie bad. spinning zombie bad. both were bad. time to step up the game

 
I think like most people I would prefer something between the two, but since the poll question only presented it as a simple dichotomy, I have to say I went with the A16 behaviour.

I don't have a real issue with zombies being at least vaguely smart - I'm something of a Romero purist when it comes to my zombie media, and in all the classic Romero films there are of examples of zombies being smart.

Noticeably, though, it's usually only a single "hero" zombie that's smarter than the rest; and that one then leads the others through or around obstacles that would otherwise stump them.

Some examples include:

Night of the Living Dead - After Karen is zombified she uses a trowel as a weapon to kill her parents because otherwise she wouldn't be strong enough to do so.

Dawn of the Dead - When Roger is zombified, he remembers the location of the hidden entrance to the survivors' base and leads the other zombies into it.

Day of the Dead - Bub is probably the most famous "smart" zombie. He remembers enough to salute a soldier, can be persuaded to talk into a telephone with a reward of food, and in the end remembers how to use a gun and shoots the person who killed the human that was nice to him and gave him the food rewards.

Land of the Dead - Big Daddy remembers how to use a gun, is realises that fireworks are a distraction, works out where the people who come to raid the city are from, commands an army of zombies to attack the city, and is smart enough to work out that as zombies they don't need to breathe so they can cross a river.

Personally, I'd love to see special zombies who are smart like this and can lead others. Having a few smart zombies as a special type is far better than just having physically tougher or acrobatic zombies. It would be really great if there were "pathfinder" zombies that would be able to make the smart decisions and work out how to to get to you or if ex-military zombies were able to shoot guns at you (they wouldn't be crack shots of course, but it would add to the danger). Regular zombies would be more stupid and without a smart leader they would walk straight into traps and the like, but if a leader were present they'd follow that leader around the traps and follow the leader's cue to break supports or dig.

 
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I voted for current. As a starting place it is vastly superior
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I can not vote for the new one, because it is the 2nd biggest gripe I have with this alpha, as defending larger areas is not viable AT ALL anymore.

But I do see its advantages after randomization and a more "try to make a hole even though there already is a path" behaviour is implemented.

So I actually withhold my voice.

A16 IS more fun, when it comes to general survival horror in small defended shaks.

A17 has more potential and zombies don't run circles.

 
I've been doing some tests on the point at which the zombies choose digging over other paths.

I dug out a path diagonally downwards to bedrock and walled off the entrance. Standing at a point about 30 blocks horizontally from the entrance, zombies chose to break through the entrance to get to me. At 40 blocks or farther, they just dig straight down.

I'm not sure if it's the horizontal or vertical height that determines the switchover, the overall path length, the path length along one axis, or something else.

 
Roland,

How about a mixture of both??

Like say, they code it as a random chance that 25% that they use smart AI pattern, else the use dumb AI pattern.

That would create unpredictability - which is scary and fun!

Most would be true dumb-dumb zombies grasping for anything. But, a few clever ones with a good sniffer, will hunt your weak points with laser guidance!

Especially feral wights should be smart, cuz they are freaks! Cops should be dumb because they are radius aoe bombers. Climbers should be smart too!

 
I voted for current. As a starting place it is vastly superior and I have confidence that faatal can really make it shine. All it really needs is some random behaviors added in and a bit more obfuscation that the zombies always know the ideal pathway to your location.
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This seems like you should have included a 3rd option in the middle. I am quite sure that the 3rd option here would have been right, but given the 2 options now, I prefer the first. Zombies should go for the stupid solution and chance onto the right solution. There should not be an intelligent process, only that a few zombies out of the first 2 dozen go to the right point, and overcome the weakness in about 1/6-1/20 the time they should if they were Architectural experts.

 
A16, because I extrapolate that if the a17 ones are going to be fixed, that the a16 ones would have been as well (fix spinning, hit up/down).

That, and the current behavior should be reserved for BANDITS, which I no longer believe are going to be coming.*

*I'm sure bandits will be introduced, just not in a meaningful way, i.e. bandit hordes... They'll probably just be guarding strongholds barely ducking for cover, much less moving... I certainly don't think that we will be getting the bandits madmole so lovingly described back in the day... The game is moving towards static play with linear progression, I don't see that changing, i.e. no more NEW dynamic elelements, just passive threats that we have to go to (not ones that come to us).

 
I agree with this post. Most things that zombies do now are very necessary exploit fixes. The way they attack a building according to its SI or the way they path around it to get to you are great additions. However, they're still zombies, and zombies are known to have null self-preservation. They shouldn't actively avoid traps.
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Zombies should also not know the difference between wood and concrete, nor should they have x-ray vision that allows them to precisely judge the width of a wall. Zombies are not master structural engineers! It's daft! There must be some reasonable compromise between robot super-AI and "gets stuck, spins on the spot".

 
First of all this poll was requested by one of you and these are the options they wanted to know. I’m not trying to lead anyone anywhere. Either you like the zombies better now or you liked them better before. There is nothing more to it than that. I could just as easily (wrongly) speculate that some who don’t want to vote for either just don’t want to give ANY positive spin to A17 even though they like it more.

 
I had to sit and think about this. Traditional zombies in film and print are not smart nor are they fast. However, I despised having them level houses to get to me in A16. I'd be inside a house looting and instead of finding a way in they simply started leveling crap. The new AI has managed to startle me multiple times and very little damage occurs to buildings now.

One thing I dislike is them randomly jumping around. I suppose they're jamming to

, but watching them on a flat area simply jumping around is silly. I also dislike them randomly just destroying chunks of ground. I mean with me miles away watching through a scope, one is walking along and then just slaps the ground for no reason. Beyond that I like them.
*EDIT*

Since bandits were mentioned, I keep imagining them as the ones in Borderlands. Wonder if we can slip one of them in as an Easter Egg without pissing Gearbox off?

 
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Voted PreA17 which is what I would call the smart zombies. A17 they are just way to predictable which makes them easy to manipulate and kill.

 
First of all this poll was requested by one of you and these are the options they wanted to know. I’m not trying to lead anyone anywhere. Either you like the zombies better now or you liked them better before. There is nothing more to it than that. I could just as easily (wrongly) speculate that some who don’t want to vote for either just don’t want to give ANY positive spin to A17 even though they like it more.
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...no leading?

"Option 1: Keep the old crappy broken a16 system that supports pedophilia and the clubbing of baby seals.

Option 2: Vote for a17 and show your intelligence, thus ending world hunger."

...kinda leading, Roland. Sure, what you said isn't quite as extreme, but... :)

 
First of all this poll was requested by one of you and these are the options they wanted to know. I’m not trying to lead anyone anywhere. Either you like the zombies better now or you liked them better before. There is nothing more to it than that. I could just as easily (wrongly) speculate that some who don’t want to vote for either just don’t want to give ANY positive spin to A17 even though they like it more.
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Thats pretty insulting to be honest, like usual people are only intrested in reading feedback if it follows a paragraph or two of brown nosing and proclaiming that TFP are the best develoers eva!

I DO have a list of positive things to say about a17, its pretty short.

- im glad zombies dig again, once thier damage gets balanced so they dont dig stupidly fast this will be great

- im glad zombies dont do the ballerina thing anymore and can attack structural supports if the player is above them

- vehicles seem more stable since thier re-write, more variety here is good too i guess but should have probably been left to modders.

Thats it, nothing else in this alpha has been a positive for me and a lot of the big changes (dungeon POIs, zombie behaviour, perk system, item mods) have taken massive ammounts of the enjoyment this game once offered me.

- - - Updated - - -

...no leading?
"Option 1: Keep the old crappy broken a16 system that supports pedophilia and the clubbing of baby seals.

Option 2: Vote for a17 and show your intelligence, thus ending world hunger."

...kinda leading, Roland. Sure, what you said isn't quite as extreme, but... :)
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Lmfao, this post expresses what i thourght the second i read this thread, thankyou for saying it more clearly than i ever could.

 
...no leading?
"Option 1: Keep the old crappy broken a16 system that supports pedophilia and the clubbing of baby seals.

Option 2: Vote for a17 and show your intelligence, thus ending world hunger."

...kinda leading, Roland. Sure, what you said isn't quite as extreme, but... :)
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Ok, sorry Guppy, but on this one, you simply could not be more wrong.

The poll options literally are:

The zombie behavior of pre-A17

The zombie behavior of post-A17

That couldn't be more neutral if Roland had spray painted Swiss flags all over it! His comments below, are his own personal opinion, which he is every bit as entitled to hold (and express) as anyone else on these boards.

I really don't see how you or WolfyBlah can be complaining about this.

 
Zombies should also not know the difference between wood and concrete, nor should they have x-ray vision that allows them to precisely judge the width of a wall. Zombies are not master structural engineers! It's daft! There must be some reasonable compromise between robot super-AI and "gets stuck, spins on the spot".
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One thing is certain: The easiest and most ancient way to beat horde night is to find a tall building, and climb on top of it. The only way for zombies to have the slightest chance to get you then is to attack the weak spots of the place so it crumbles down.

We could argue if zombies have a degree on architecture and engineering or not, but this is purely a decision based on gameplay mechanics.

 
Ok, sorry Guppy, but on this one, you simply could not be more wrong.
The poll options literally are:

The zombie behavior of pre-A17

The zombie behavior of post-A17

That couldn't be more neutral if Roland had spray painted Swiss flags all over it! His comments below, are his own personal opinion, which he is every bit as entitled to hold (and express) as anyone else on these boards.

I really don't see how you or WolfyBlah can be complaining about this.
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I'm on mobile. Polls don't exist for me until I switch to desktop mode, so all I see is Roland's first post. Which is very leading.

 
Isn't this like a moot point though... I mean, this "new" AI is being built as we speak. Maybe none of what it does now it will do in a week or so. Right?

Gun to my head though... I prefer the "real" zombies of A16, they at least knew their place in the food chain. They didn't have an advanced "understanding" of traps, supersonic hearing, a PHD in engineering and construction weak points AND they did NOT communicate telepathically with their colleagues about my whereabouts.

The running in circles had to be fixed though.

 
Ok, sorry Guppy, but on this one, you simply could not be more wrong.
The poll options literally are:

The zombie behavior of pre-A17

The zombie behavior of post-A17

That couldn't be more neutral if Roland had spray painted Swiss flags all over it! His comments below, are his own personal opinion, which he is every bit as entitled to hold (and express) as anyone else on these boards.

I really don't see how you or WolfyBlah can be complaining about this.
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Do you honestly belive there isnt an option (or 6) missing from this poll?

Just 1-

The Zombie BEHAVIOUR of a16 with the a17 exploit fixes and technical improvements.

Its asking which is better: a technically inferior product (old AI) or the new zombie behaviour that comes along with the updated product.

 
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