PC let me get this right

This is about being real and letting them know how we feel. No disrespect is ever intended for the team in a personal way.
I've been playing games all my life and to be honest this game has gotten my attention in a way I never expected it to. My "gaming" senses are tingling and that's why I'm so invested (if you wanna call it that) and get so disappointed when they try to make the game "harder" with decisions I <----- believe to be dumb.
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I totally get it, I first played this game drunk on Halloween a couple years ago because a buddy of mine kept telling me I would love it. I played it and never gave it shot, I just wanted to drunk kill zambies. Played like 2 hours and shelved it for a year. I picked it back up and gave it a fair shot and actually learned how to play it. I've been hooked since and really LOVED A16.4 because I never exploited it like I hear so many did.

I was initially upset that everything was pretty much scrapped and A17e started over. I did the same thing and didn't give it a proper shot.

I really enjoy A17e now, not as much as I did with A16.4's RNG, RWG, and learn by doing, but I do enjoy it and wish TFP would just pick a path and get us to stable now. Seems the pendulum keeps swinging on issues that don't seem that pressing (to me).

Just my 2 cents.

 
My Seven Days of Love

(Original poetry by: CoolJ, inspired by Madmole)

​





Your problem is there is no progression at all in this game.

There is have and have not.

Doesn't help that you refuse to follow convention.

In it self is fine and noble, but really starts to suck when you have no concept of where you are taking any of this.

Why is this just being tested out now?

Where is your comprehensive plan?

What is the end game?

Plans almost never work out the way they were originally intended, but having no plan is planning for failure.

pexels-photo-207962.jpeg


-Morloc

 
They cut the level gates in general because they wanted people to have the freedom to specialize but they also want spacers between the tech levels. When they very first switched to a point economy gate from level gate they said that they would be looking at doing some surgical level gates to certain perks in order to give each tech level its era.
What's to be confused about?

A15 (mostly passive leveling) --> A16 (less passive leveling and more point spending and level gating) --> A17 (all point spending and level gating) --> (all point spending and no level gating) --> (all point spending and limited level gating)

Throughout all of this the concept of starting gimped and progressing to super has been the same. This seems like standard development of concept and experimentation that would go on before the final release. If development is confusing and disorienting and unpleasant then wait for the full release. Not one single person who purchases this game after it releases will go through the process illustrated above and will never have played the game with those different settings. They will just know the one where it finally settled after trial and error and experimentation.
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i get your points, what confused me the most was 1.5 years of dev to get it changed completely 2 weeks after. the time span is what makes it confusing. altho are now more in line with what ppl wanted they are also not exactly what TFP says thes are. what i mean by this is the specialization thingy, because once u get high enough in lvl u can unlock everything anyway. i can easely grind like 50 levels each play session since now the goal now is to powerlevel in order to get the skills. only thing that makes it difficult is having glowing ferals at lvl 70 spawning already in mass. but yeh its doable anyway.

 
I would much prefer book rng instead of, here's your forge/minibike/auger/ect. just because you spent a point here.
RNG and searching/looting everything made for such unique playthroughs imo.
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gave a purpose for looting everything too. now i dont even need to worry where to find coal and nitrate cuz there are so many weapons i get bullets all the time. in roughly one week me and 2 mates we got like 10k 7.62 in a chest without counting the other bullets and the one spent.

 
I would say you certainly CAN powerlevel by grinding out zombie kills but I wouldn't say that doing so is the recognized design goal of the current system.

What I am hoping is that the developers are finally coming to the realization that whatever system they put in place grinders gonna grind. So stop worrying about it and create the system that supports the fun playstyle they are envisioning. There will always be Speedy McSpeedsters who will complain that the endgame came too soon because of what they chose to do.

 
See? Making up metaphorical dialogues is fun! :)
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Not as fun as making up fantasy hit sitcoms ;)

What they have against the forge is simple. Nothing. It's a tier 2 building station and is treated as such. Not meant to be had on day one. Why? Because that is what THEY wish to see in THEIR game.

Concrete on day 2 with NO other consequence is deemed a bit OP in their eyes and rightfully so. Concrete takes away a big portion of the danger, and iron tools reduces the workload by more than half. So a little waiting is necessary. Its ok, you will get there. Patience is a virtue and like Faatal has pointed out it's very easy to bypass these mechanics you don't agree with. It's called Creative.

SAWCE

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?74084-Developer-Discussions-Alpha-17&p=911285&viewfull=1#post911285

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I would say you certainly CAN powerlevel by grinding out zombie kills but I wouldn't say that doing so is the recognized design goal of the current system.
What I am hoping is that the developers are finally coming to the realization that whatever system they put in place grinders gonna grind. So stop worrying about it and create the system that supports the fun playstyle they are envisioning. There will always be Speedy McSpeedsters who will complain that the endgame came too soon because of what they chose to do.
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During the inception of Ravenhearst over a year ago I stress tested V1 on our whitelist. We had three players who min/maxed and bragged over it. I tore apart my mod and redesigned it to fight THEM and their play style. Lost half my server pop and never gained them back. I can attest to this statement, make the game YOU want and dont try to fight the fringe. It can be costly.

 
Though I agree with you, I can't help but to play "Devil's Advocate" here.
At what point during a 5+ year Alpha development cycle do you think it would be appropriate to go hard on them?
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QFT. I tried during the early days of A16 to get people to stop calling this an alpha especially when A15 was a shipped port to console. Here we are 15+ months later still on an experimental A17 build but that's cool, this isn't the final stable product.

 
I would say you certainly CAN powerlevel by grinding out zombie kills but I wouldn't say that doing so is the recognized design goal of the current system.
What I am hoping is that the developers are finally coming to the realization that whatever system they put in place grinders gonna grind. So stop worrying about it and create the system that supports the fun playstyle they are envisioning. There will always be Speedy McSpeedsters who will complain that the endgame came too soon because of what they chose to do.
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This is a hard lesson for developers to learn. You can make your time to level spreadsheet, put in time to acquire goals, and make the graphs look all pretty but none of that survives contact with the player base. There will always be some percentage of your playerbase that is able to sprint to "the end" in a fraction of the time that the rest. While you can hinder those folks some, you risk alienating just about everyone else. That's currently what is happening with the early game in these builds.

 
Though I agree with you, I can't help but to play "Devil's Advocate" here.
At what point during a 5+ year Alpha development cycle do you think it would be appropriate to go hard on them?
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I have to say, at this juncture, many of us are secretly wishing the Alpha never ends in all honesty. No sarcasm here.

 
I would say you certainly CAN powerlevel by grinding out zombie kills but I wouldn't say that doing so is the recognized design goal of the current system.
What I am hoping is that the developers are finally coming to the realization that whatever system they put in place grinders gonna grind. So stop worrying about it and create the system that supports the fun playstyle they are envisioning. There will always be Speedy McSpeedsters who will complain that the endgame came too soon because of what they chose to do.
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+1

Living underground is an example of this. TFP thought it was not the way intended and (re)added digging zombies. Many people thought it was unbalanced and fought against it. Eventually and by the looks of it, a slider will be added to make digging optional. All that time was used in something that is now an option... instead of using it for the, as you put it, "fun playstyle they are envisioning".

All arguments are: "I dont like players who cheese by living underground" = "but you don't HAVE to do it yourself" = "Then turn off zombies"

Its a catch 22... TFP won't win that and they don't have to. Keep making your game and let players do their thing and what makes them happy. When there's game breaking stuff that you feel that EVERYBODY is doing IT to "cheese" a certain situation, then you deal with it. Other than that, let them be FREE.

 
I have to say, at this juncture, many of us are secretly wishing the Alpha never ends in all honesty. No sarcasm here.
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Why? I would really prefer they finish this game. I hope it is a huge success and that allows them to make another with newfound wisdom and greater resources. In the future I want to see TFP right up there with Rockstar and CDPR. There is plenty of room at the top. Certainly, as long as companies like Bethesda seem so willing power dive their way to the bottom, there are voids to fill.

 
Though I agree with you, I can't help but to play "Devil's Advocate" here.
At what point during a 5+ year Alpha development cycle do you think it would be appropriate to go hard on them?
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Coca Cola made a mistake that in is the top ten list of worst business mistakes ever.

[Changing formula and all that mess.]

They had been in business for half a century already.

TFP may have been doing this for five years but they have not completed one AAA game.

It's not so much time, I feel, but the experience of going from start to finish that will net the full experience.

If they didn't already have my money then your argument would make sense. They chose the path to involve the community in the development. They can't have it both ways. Conventionally, this would all happen behind closed doors. This is not conventional. Therefor conventional arguments do not apply. They are selling this game. WIP or not. It is a product for sale and there is some expectation of competence and playablility.
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1) They have your money? You mean the pittance you paid for an Alpha game?

You didn't pay the full amount of a AAA game and you most certainly have gotten your money's worth.

2) They chose to involve the community through an open Alpha.

YOU can't have it both ways either. You play a game not finished and in a state of development and yet you are demanding everything be done right the first time and when you demand it to.

Who's playing both sides now?

3) The sale of this game is not related to this discussion. The is an economic decision.

Smaller developers have to do these sorts of things to raise enough money to complete the project.

It's only after building the company can they invest fully into something without fundraising.

TFP is new and isn't there yet.... and you should know this because in your own words, "you're in the business."

 
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I was against attribute gating because it stops early specialization. So we removed attribute gates and hoped the steeper prices of attributes would keep people out of steel for several weeks, but they teamed up and got INT 10 on day 5 or less. Thats like having Tek gear in ark after 5 hours, when it takes literally 6 months to get tek gear in that game if you play casually for 3 hours a day.
Perk gating is best for the game to ensure some delayed gratification and continued challenge. If you get the best gear in the game on day 1 or even day 10, then there is no challenge and the game gets boring very quickly. You might as well just start a new character... and wait why bother you got everything on day 1 again. You guys might as well type CM in and get the stuff you think you deserve on day 1. You could turn the difficulty down too, it has the same effect. But that doesn't work against other players in pvp or give you bragging rights in pve.

There is still great value in getting an attribute to 10 and specializing early game. We're just blocking you from getting the best tech super early because once progression feels stalled out, any game gets boring. Once I got to level 100 in Ark and got the best stuff and couldn't gain any more levels, I quit. I didn't think I would, but I suddenly lost interest. Same thing happens in Fallout at level 40-50 and in Skyrim. Once you get the best gear and hit god status, the reason to play suddenly vanishes for most players.

We can always add an xp slider for those who can't stand not being god can hit end game in 10% of the time. And those who want a long grind can slow it down easily.
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If you want to make the game more rewarding and interesting, then stop adding level Gates and Point Gates and other gating stuff.

To be honest its funny you say something about Ark and Tek Gear and continued challenge.

You removed most of the Challenge from 7days and exchanged it with Gating and Nerfes .

Lets take Ark as example, yes it takes time until i can have Tek Gear but there are so many other things i can have before i get Tek Gear, such "so many things" is not existend in 7days.

In Ark i cannot carry 1000 Stone Walls cause they are too heavy in 7days i can carry much more cause nothing has weight.

And now back to only 7days. Many alphas ago we had stacksizes of 64 during this time people had to think during looting if they need the Water more or the Food or the Weapon or the Brass . You guys thought its crap with low Stacksizes so you pushed it to 6000 people could go and loot without real inventory Management. At same time you startet to raise ressources needed to craft somethign to stupid numbers, added some block upgrade stuff making again a part of the game easier and iuf it comes to resources for crafting somehow stupid.

Then you startet to remove different Meat types from the game removed recipes or modified them to only use meat , same with wood.

Then you removed recipe books from the game made it a Perk Gate Game. Before people had a reason to run around and search for the Forge Book or the Book for Auger oder whatever and during this time most people had no forge on day 1 or day 10. If it was still to easy reduce the chance for the book in loot.xml .

And Madmole to be honest , only cause you loose interest in a Game after you reach a high level of have good gear does not mean everyone does, and if your decision for such changes always come from such things like you loose interest playing a game after reaching max level i dont think its good to force this on all people.

XP Slider would also not fix that cause it would still be only simple perk clicking . Add back the recipe and Schemata Books and Plans and give Players a option to disable all this Perk and Skill Point stuff. or a option to disable unlocking Recipes by Skill so this Players can go and search Books and Schemata to unlock Recipes . Or add back the needed Code so Modders can change that back .

Since the Changes to STacksizes and Resources the game startet to become more and more a Ego Shooter with a minimum crafting addon , sure you can craft everything but there is no real reward, now you can repair stuff wihtout any loose of quality , quality only is relevant for Mod Slots and again no option to change it back cause the game no londer accept it.

So Madmole why not offer more Options for the People to switch between 1 or 2 or give Modders the needed Functions in the Code to Mod it?

 
Multiple people might! Because you multiply xp instead of share it (what a broken concept that is :D )
You want to know what a single player, who specializes in INT gains?

Steel tools, that he cant swing, because he doesnt have the agility to swing it, he doesn'T get ressources because he doesn't have the strength and he has absolutely nothing else! (no fighting and looting and farming skills whatsoever)

So if I as a single player want to have steel tools on day 10, I should be able to have that! I worked hard for it and I have so many other disadvantages.

And if a group of 4 specializes in perks, you know what else they have? A WAAAY higher gamestage! (if you share instead of multiply xp)

So having someone who can make you good tools is useful!

Also they spent about 4x the time in the game, so they are a combined level of 80 when a single player is just lvl 20 (with multiplicative xp its more like they are lvl 160(40+40+40+40) when a single player is just level 10.

All this and I have to tell you:

If you have tek tier within the first 2 days of Ark, you still do not have any torpor resistance! You still have no trex or turrets and so on!

Also Ark is a completely different, PvP style game that requires a sort of levelgating (even then I could name you other solutions to this problem) tech!
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Good point. Ive been depressed ever since I heard about teams getting all that extra XP. I'm someone who 90% plays pvp, and 95% of that playtime has been going solo on servers that usually have a lot of teams. My playstyle isnt possible anymore unless I am a lvl900 Masochist.

 
They cut the level gates in general because they wanted people to have the freedom to specialize but they also want spacers between the tech levels. When they very first switched to a point economy gate from level gate they said that they would be looking at doing some surgical level gates to certain perks in order to give each tech level its era.
What's to be confused about?

A15 (mostly passive leveling) --> A16 (less passive leveling and more point spending and level gating) --> A17 (all point spending and level gating) --> (all point spending and no level gating) --> (all point spending and limited level gating)

Throughout all of this the concept of starting gimped and progressing to super has been the same. This seems like standard development of concept and experimentation that would go on before the final release. If development is confusing and disorienting and unpleasant then wait for the full release. Not one single person who purchases this game after it releases will go through the process illustrated above and will never have played the game with those different settings. They will just know the one where it finally settled after trial and error and experimentation.
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ok ill uninstall and delete it until final release.. buh bye

 
I'm sorry but I am going to have to agree that it sort of feels like there's no real direction with what you guys want to do here. You know what's better than forcing artificial play times? More content. If you want people to have a hard time specializing - add more options. I'm assuming the perks we have now aren't going to be the only ones we ever get, right?

And to boot, the whole 'parties get multipliers on their experience' is just silly. I've seen people somehow still manage to reach level 60-70 within a day or two of a new experimental drop - all because they party up and farm screamers. As a solo player, it sucks to know that not only am I denied experience because I am solo, but I am also denied zombies because the parties are spawning them all for themselves.

During the level gate removal experimental (233? 238? I can't remember there's been so many this week), I focused purely on an INT rush to get steel. This left me constantly over-encumbered, constantly thirsty and hungry, with terrible slow resource gathering and terrible combat performance. There were a few times I got in over my head and died because of my lack of build diversity. Now we're just back to being forced to spread our points, and mostly everyone is going to end up the same in the end, now it only takes much longer and there's nothing to fill in the gaps.

What happened to moving some exp over to crafting/building? Why do you get 3 exp for looting at level 1, but 100+ exp when looting above level 20? Getting to max gear level and discovering you're bored isn't a reason to slow the whole thing down and make it a chore, it's a reason to conceptualize new content - actual things to do in the game. In the last 2-3 years, the biggest leaps in terms of content we've had are vehicles, and electricity, and the very very basic quest system.

 
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