PC let me get this right
- Thread starter Bandicoot
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Viktoriusiii
New member
Multiple people might! Because you multiply xp instead of share it (what a broken concept that is
)You want to know what a single player, who specializes in INT gains?
Steel tools, that he cant swing, because he doesnt have the agility to swing it, he doesn'T get ressources because he doesn't have the strength and he has absolutely nothing else! (no fighting and looting and farming skills whatsoever)
So if I as a single player want to have steel tools on day 10, I should be able to have that! I worked hard for it and I have so many other disadvantages.
And if a group of 4 specializes in perks, you know what else they have? A WAAAY higher gamestage! (if you share instead of multiply xp)
So having someone who can make you good tools is useful!
Also they spent about 4x the time in the game, so they are a combined level of 80 when a single player is just lvl 20 (with multiplicative xp its more like they are lvl 160(40+40+40+40) when a single player is just level 10.
All this and I have to tell you:
If you have tek tier within the first 2 days of Ark, you still do not have any torpor resistance! You still have no trex or turrets and so on!
Also Ark is a completely different, PvP style game that requires a sort of levelgating (even then I could name you other solutions to this problem) tech!
Bhaaltazar
New member
I just don't think this is the way to go and limit my play style. I wouldn't say the problem is players get too strong too soon, heck on build b195 I was at gamestage 140 on the first BM horde - that was one heck of a surprise and I enjoyed it. I licked my wound's and prepered better for next BM with investing to additional perks and changed my tactics. When I got little bored was at lvl 120 or so, when I was able to manage even those nasty feral hordes in big POI's like messiah -. but while I was doing it I was still on edge and hear my heart pumping lol.
What I missed was some real END GAME stuff. So now I m equiped, I found my mods, got my skills up where I wanted them to be and I was ready for BM, though I still had to run and jump out of a building ( from high point risking breaking my leg ) just to survive from those irradiated Zeds.
But my point being is that just adding more difuculty to zombies and increase their numbers is not the way. Maybe add some special recipes or schematcs on "legendary rare" level for which you have to look into many places and/or fight some special dungeons/bosses to craft something ( like some old factory assembly line or something ), or I liked those special NPCs in Fallout 3 that gave you some special weapons or tools - it just adds to flavor of the game. Also TFP also said they plan to add bandits - that would work as great if properly implemented.
So to not just sound all gloom and doom I still love this game, my favorite game for years right on top with skyrim, fallout..., but it always felt that game has only reached to mid - leveling stage and END game content still needs to be added. Figure great end game and the game will be golden ( I already spoted some great ideas from players in the chats so If running out of ideas why not open a brainstorming/suggestion thread for players to contribute end game ideas to TFP and let players talk it over with TFP team.
What I missed was some real END GAME stuff. So now I m equiped, I found my mods, got my skills up where I wanted them to be and I was ready for BM, though I still had to run and jump out of a building ( from high point risking breaking my leg ) just to survive from those irradiated Zeds.
But my point being is that just adding more difuculty to zombies and increase their numbers is not the way. Maybe add some special recipes or schematcs on "legendary rare" level for which you have to look into many places and/or fight some special dungeons/bosses to craft something ( like some old factory assembly line or something ), or I liked those special NPCs in Fallout 3 that gave you some special weapons or tools - it just adds to flavor of the game. Also TFP also said they plan to add bandits - that would work as great if properly implemented.
So to not just sound all gloom and doom I still love this game, my favorite game for years right on top with skyrim, fallout..., but it always felt that game has only reached to mid - leveling stage and END game content still needs to be added. Figure great end game and the game will be golden ( I already spoted some great ideas from players in the chats so If running out of ideas why not open a brainstorming/suggestion thread for players to contribute end game ideas to TFP and let players talk it over with TFP team.
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LuckyStar
New member
There's another option.
You can always stay with the A17 build you're using now and only update very few builds.
That's kind of what I'm doing with my SP games and it's just fine.
I was curious though, how people on MP servers were reacting to all the changes and updates.
Not surprising some don't like having to restart often.
It's not for everyone [myself included].
Kattla
New member
It is still quite a bit of dedicated work with the current stamina issues to reach INT 10. I would rush
INT, but only to the point of getting a motorized vehicle to make crossing the patches of different
biomes a bit easier, since either hot or could would add encumberance.
And yes, in very many games one make it to the top, then say stop. But there is at least 2 games
i know of that was good enough to make me, and many others, play well after they reached max
status, because the games themself were just pure genious and FUN to play.
One is minecraft, another one is 7 days to die. And i used to prefer the latter.
Still does , even though it seems to be a fading star.
As for attribute gating, i found the game better when it had none. When a shovel
was just a shovel , and my player was just someone , somewhere in the zombie infested
american wilderness, trying to survive.
Odin_the_Mad
New member
Thanks for taking the time to respond on the forums. So I read your post and you spoke about people teaming up to get all the good gear on day 5, and I can see how that is an issue. But this kind of behavior is strictly limited to multiplayer. You could never do that in singleplayer.
Kage started a thread on this very issue which I absolutely agreed with, that it's going to be super hard to balance the game for singleplayer and multiplayer using the same kinds of gating which is why we suggested having some more options to allow us to set how many skill points we get or to allow us to enable/disable level gates since it seems like a lot of the game is balanced for multiplayer and everybody has a different idea of what balance is
I have almost a thousand hours in the game and have never played anything but singleplayer. I just play solo and that scenario would never happen. Because if it did your character would be so weak and feeble it wouldn't matter what kind of tools you have, you wouldn't even have enough stamina to swing that steel pick. You would be starving all the time. You would still be gathering so little in materials you would struggle to even make enough steel to build the tools in the first place. And that's the way it should be.
I understand the desire to create a sense of accomplishment and lengthen the game but in SP the attribute and perk cost IS the level gate. If we rush a forge we are making a tradeoff that hurts us in other areas. That is already a good balance and it allows us to play how we want. Cant you just let multiplayer servers set thier own levelgates to prevent that kind of behavior? Or stop giving so much shared XP so they dont fly through levels.
It's not about wanting to be God mode in day 1, I hated that about alpha 16, and you guys are doing a great job making this alpha much more challenging, but please dont treat solo like its multiplayer. Just when we were all so happy about the gates being gone they come back because of some guys who took advantage of multiplayer.
Best solution : a setting to toggle levelgates on/off
PoppaTot
New member
We've been handling pretty well. All of us are level-headed for the most part and understand that it's experimental. However this last week has been rough lol. When we sit down on weekdays we generally play 5-7 hours and weekends are longer. Getting almost to BM and then wiping after the early game grind has been taking it's toll on some of the players.
CoolJ
New member
LuckyStar
New member
That statement assumes a lot.
Can you prove they aren't following a plan?
I'm not saying you're wrong, just that you don't really have anything to back up that statement.
You've inferred this from the experience you've perceived.
I see something very different.
A development process that adapts to goals and ideas as it moves forward.
Things have to be altered and change to get past hurdles.
Take UMA zeds for instance.
GREAT idea that allowed us Modders to make custom zeds.
The engine hated it ... so it needed to be changed.
Well... that's part of development.
That doesn't mean TFP didn't have a plan, it means the tech couldn't support the idea as it was so TFP had to adapt.
What we got in the end were great looking Zeds and much better performance.
But you see that as an unguided mistake right?
See...... this is your chosen perceived reality.
Can't help you with that man.
Early specialization? Are you ♥♥♥♥ing kidding me...10 int now, how many levels is that? What exactly do you define as early I guess? And to be so extremely specialized as to have no other skills at all. Bleh!
In general I don't even like the idea of level gates and I thought the skill system as it was originally released for A17 was just fine, level gates and all.
Yes, I realize I am very much in the minority here. </rant>
CoolJ
New member
Yea, get back to me when when what is happening doesn't match my "chosen perceived reality".
Look, I want to see this succeed just as much as anyone. Take it from someone in the business. I have worked for organizations that try to develop software this way. I know what it looks like. I know how much of this crap could be avoided all together. I have made these mistakes before. It would be wrong for me not to levy these criticisms to a group of people that I respect and that I want to see succeed. If I wanted them to fail, then I wouldn't say a damned thing.
White knight all you want. There is a saying in the community that I come from.
"Orbital bombardment will continue until morale improves!"
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dregonazure
New member
i feel like the real issue here is lack of content for those at the end game, if people are getting bored once their character has progressed enough, maybe it would be best if there was some end goal for them to work towards that wasnt related to exp, some facility that you need to clear to work on a vacine or some npc settlement to build up and defend the npcs there, something to give the player that has reached endgame something to do
Randomdude
New member
He's a YES man. That's kind of what he does around here. (AND MEMES!!!) sorry...
I read your comments as constructive and to be honest, feel the same way. Direction seems to be a problem, if not, the pendulum wouldn't swing so hard when changing something that people don't want or they themselves find unbalanced.
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LuckyStar
New member
If this were a released build you might have a leg to stand on but it's experimental.
I feel you're "assessment" is a little early.
Though I won't discount all you've said here.
I think TFP have, like ALL developers, make some less than excellent choices.
I've seen exactly what you're talking about in major corporations as well.
Companies don't always take the best or most efficient route.
Is there a learning process going on, yeah... I see it too.
Doesn't mean they won't get to where they need to be.
Try to remember, this is TFP's first major project.
It's going to take time and they will make mistakes.
Try not to be too hard on them.
CoolJ
New member
If they didn't already have my money then your argument would make sense. They chose the path to involve the community in the development. They can't have it both ways. Conventionally, this would all happen behind closed doors. This is not conventional. Therefor conventional arguments do not apply. They are selling this game. WIP or not. It is a product for sale and there is some expectation of competence and playablility.
Randomdude
New member
This is about being real and letting them know how we feel. No disrespect is ever intended for the team in a personal way.
I've been playing games all my life and to be honest this game has gotten my attention in a way I never expected it to. My "gaming" senses are tingling and that's why I'm so invested (if you wanna call it that) and get so disappointed when they try to make the game "harder" with decisions I <----- believe to be dumb.