PC Kickstarter Goals Abandoned?!?

Nah, not always, not exactly. I think it's mostly because nowadays, there are already a lot of choices available and most won't search thoroughly or won't bother to go into detail before judging a game.
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First, I didn't say "always" or "exactly." I was referring to a single person's review (as I believe Roland was), then you and Minandreas chimed in with "most."

Second, you haven't indicated anything that doesn't fall under "stupid." Speaking before you think or forming an opinion before you have knowledge are markers of stupidity. These things might be widely accepted in the world, but that doesn't make them not stupid.

 
First, I didn't say "always" or "exactly." I was referring to a single person's review (as I believe Roland was), then you and Minandreas chimed in with "most."
Second, you haven't indicated anything that doesn't fall under "stupid." Speaking before you think or forming an opinion before you have knowledge are markers of stupidity. These things might be widely accepted in the world, but that doesn't make them not stupid.
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When you have hundreds of products in your disposal, you won't and can't thoroughly search every product's details. You will form an opinion, then ignore it/not recommend it etc. Stupid or not, the update rate can be a deterrent, especially in EA for a random customer.

As for the guy who wrote that review, I agree more or less with what Kubikus said in the 1st page.

But as for Roland's post... I think he sugarcoats it a little. I think that what that guy on that review said was overly-dramatic and not really true, but then again I think that Benjiro makes a lot of points. I'm saying it again though - could care less about their kickstarter goal details, when I am not completely satisfied by the core game.

 
4) Basic Survival - Scavenge the world for food and water maintaining and boosting health, food, stamina, and hydration levels. Grow and harvest a variety of crops and hunt, track or domesticate a multitude of wildlife to live off the land.

While there will always be controversy between veterans and newbs & hardcore and casuals about whether there is truly any meaningful threat to survival in the game nobody can deny that the elements of managing hunger and thirst and stamina and health are in the game. You can farm a variety of crops and you can hunt. Tracking and domesticating are absent however. C
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I think you are being too hard on this grade of C, I really believe according to what they stated it is at least a B. I wouldn't drop it to a C just because of lack of domestic animals. Other than this one I think your analysis is spot on. Thanks!

 
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When you have hundreds of products in your disposal, you won't and can't thoroughly search every product's details. You will form an opinion, then ignore it/not recommend it etc. Stupid or not, the update rate can be a deterrent, especially in EA for a random customer.
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Not "stupid or not." It is stupidity. As Guppy said, customers are stupid. Period. Sometimes customers are stupid because they didn't do enough research. That's on them. Sometimes customers are so stupid that they ignore the information which is readily presented to them and still complain when they form a false expectation even though they should have known better. (Just work at a restaurant. Good Lord.) That's also on them. Most companies will bend over backwards trying to correct this or overcome this. Customers still are going to be stupid.

That's a little far afield of the discussion though. (Well, not of what I was trying to say, but of the thread as a whole.) People will get false impressions, and EA can be particularly difficult for that. Ok. When the game finally goes Gold, those people who had trouble with EA will get over it because they now have access to the final product, a good final product. I mean, their comments at this time have little bearing. TFP continues to work despite negative reviews, and most people have a short memory anyway. Furthermore, the general gaming population that doesn't participate in EA will come to this game without knowledge of all the baggage, so that will make little difference to them.

It's like the New Mutants movie. People who haven't followed its development don't know a thing, and when the trailers finally air and the movie comes out, they will take it at face value. People who have followed its development and are pissed by all the delays...well, their feelings don't affect the development and likely will watch the movie anyway when it comes out because they are totally stoked for a New Mutants movie. Anyway, Roland has said all of this before.

As for the guy who wrote that review, I agree more or less with what Kubikus said in the 1st page.
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Lol. That explains plenty about our conversation, and probably why you didn't pick up on the point of my post at the top of the page.

 
Not "stupid or not." It is stupidity. As Guppy said, customers are stupid. Period. Sometimes customers are stupid because they didn't do enough research. That's on them. Sometimes customers are so stupid that they ignore the information which is readily presented to them and still complain when they form a false expectation even though they should have known better. (Just work at a restaurant. Good Lord.) That's also on them. Most companies will bend over backwards trying to correct this or overcome this. Customers still are going to be stupid.
That's a little far afield of the discussion though. (Well, not of what I was trying to say, but of the thread as a whole.) People will get false impressions, and EA can be particularly difficult for that. Ok. When the game finally goes Gold, those people who had trouble with EA will get over it because they now have access to the final product, a good final product. I mean, their comments at this time have little bearing. TFP continues to work despite negative reviews, and most people have a short memory anyway. Furthermore, the general gaming population that doesn't participate in EA will come to this game without knowledge of all the baggage, so that will make little difference to them.

It's like the New Mutants movie. People who haven't followed its development don't know a thing, and when the trailers finally air and the movie comes out, they will take it at face value. People who have followed its development and are pissed by all the delays...well, their feelings don't affect the development and likely will watch the movie anyway when it comes out because they are totally stoked for a New Mutants movie. Anyway, Roland has said all of this before.

Lol. That explains plenty about our conversation, and probably why you didn't pick up on the point of my post at the top of the page.
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The "I agree more or less with Kubikus" was a trigger point I presume :p

But seriously now, it seems to me that you do understand how consumers "work". Companies can either take advantage of it or not. Markets are molded by consumers, not the opposite, at least, not in the level that we are examining here. It's more like a force of nature - no real use in blaming them. But like you said let's not get into that, it's too far off-topic.

And yes, depending always on the marketing, it won't matter for a good amount of people who will only see the final product. Which is why I keep saying that I don't care about the stretch goals and I am concerned about the things I said in my first post. Still by cultivating a large fanbase through EA and keeping it happy (within reason), the product will get better traction and sell more in the end, so I can't help but agree with Kubikus when it comes to getting advantage of that traction.

 
The "I agree more or less with Kubikus" was a trigger point I presume :p
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No trigger; just an amusing contextual marker. It would be like talking with somebody about some subject, then they give you some demographic information like "I'm an only child." Suddenly, that casts their comments in a different light (rightly or wrongly).

<snip>
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I get what you are saying, and I think we generally are focused on different things in this thread. There are plenty of marketing things that could be done, and how important they are is subject to debate. (And we won't get into which way influence flows with regards to markets, companies, and consumers.) *shrug*

 
Anyone have a link to the original review?

I'd like to read it [any if replies are allowed, maybe give them a piece of my mind.]

 
No trigger; just an amusing contextual marker. It would be like talking with somebody about some subject, then they give you some demographic information like "I'm an only child." Suddenly, that casts their comments in a different light (rightly or wrongly).
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If the message is legit and stands by itself, imo, you shouldn't see it in a different light because of the messenger.

 
Why are the fun pimps - 7 Days To Die getting so much heat lately. The game was fun when it became available on early access and has consistently improved since then. Its obvious that NPCs and story are being worked on. Good guys and bad guys will be a nice addition and it will add new challenges and resources.

I personally would like to see fishing/boats added and maybe a few tweaks on farming options, more crops. tools, and animals for example. These are just things that I would like to see but as far as what has been promised by the fun pimps, almost everything has been lived up to. The only thing they need really is the npcs and story in order to be on track, everything else is extra. The only things that I'm aware of that they gave up on was zip-lines and the behemoth, but those were never promised on Kickstarter as far as I am aware of.

 
If the message is legit and stands by itself, imo, you shouldn't see it in a different light because of the messenger.
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Maybe you shouldn't, but you do. You do, and I do, and most people do. (For the record, I didn't say that such knowledge changes the message in some way, but it can give insight into how and why that person thinks, particularly why they might think in certain ways. You don't think it changes how people read Roland's messages to know that he is a mathematics grade school teacher?)

 
I'm guessing diferent types of meat will not return?

Just a question. Why did they take it out?

I remember madmole did say that meat is meat and that he didn't understand why do people miss it.

Same can be done with everything else in the game you don't need corn and potatos, or pistols and snipers I mean weapon is a weapon. I will stop here as I think even with my bad english you can understand my point :)

 
I'm guessing diferent types of meat will not return?
Just a question. Why did they take it out?

I remember madmole did say that meat is meat and that he didn't understand why do people miss it.

Same can be done with everything else in the game you don't need corn and potatos, or pistols and snipers I mean weapon is a weapon. I will stop here as I think even with my bad english you can understand my point :)
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They were reducing the number of Blocks in the game if I recall correctly. They got rid of the different kinds of boxes and added "painting" Not sure if meat was standardized for the same reason. Meat is only used in food recipes while veggies I think were planned to be used in other things so you couldn't lump blueberries and potatoes or you screw up making snowberry juice or something

 
I'm guessing diferent types of meat will not return?
Just a question. Why did they take it out?
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Same reason as to why a lot of other things got removed. Simplification ... If you have 5 different meats, and you have 25 "base" recipes that use meat, that means you need 125 recipes and ... it lags out the menu. It means more work adjusting each xml file.

If it was me, i simply introduce Deer meat => base meat, base dear meat. And you let the game use one of the two types. Allowing you to keep 25 "base" recipe. But still have more meat options, what can result in unique recipes.

I remember madmole did say that meat is meat and that he didn't understand why do people miss it.

Same can be done with everything else in the game you don't need corn and potatos, or pistols and snipers I mean weapon is a weapon.
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Why remove weapon parts when introducing weapon modifiers... Both systems can co-exist but yet, they dumped weapon parts. Simplification ...

Why use wood > plank > frames, when you can simply use wood for frames.

I have long given up that TFPs will even have a more logical crafting system. If it was up to me, you have:

Wood > Planks

Iron > Scrap > Scrap Nails

>>> Planks + Scrap Nails = Wood frames

More logic in the crafting system ( and a bigger inventory ). It also increases loot in the world and feels like cabinets etc are not completely useless after 2 days in game. Some mods even give you complete object that you can scrap for electronics, plastics etc.

Some people like complex crafting, TFP seems to think the community does not and point to Mods if you want more complex things.

Mods do a lot of this because some people like more complex crafting but the game menu lags when mods authors add 200 items or more. Known issue that TFPs for years never fixed. No idea if A17 will finally fix this.

I will stop here as I think even with my bad english you can understand my point :)
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Don't worry a lot of people are non-English native ( holds up hand ).

 
Seems that the vast majority of negative reviews are about communication, the developers, update frequency, these forums and the moderators of these forums.

 
I felt encouraged to find the review you speak of, it does not make "the claim that all of the kickstarter goals have been abandoned by the developers", but... Here it is:
It says "seemingly", and refering to "the promises" as a whole, one could say said promises "have been abandonded" as soon as who made the promises decides to actually abandon only one of them.
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Thanks for helping me recollect what I read better. I edited my OP accordingly.

 
I think you've basically just given way too much credit to someone that posted something on a whim in Steam. It probably went something like this:
*cruising through game list in Steam*

Holy cow, 7 Days to Die. I wonder if that update came out yet.

No? Over a year and no update? WOOOOOW They just cut and ran.

*posts about it being another abandoned kickstarter game*
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I'm sure you're right. I wasn't trying to debunk the reviewer for his own sake. It was more of a springboard into getting me curious about the kickstarter goals and where TFP is in accomplishing them. The list I made is good for anyone who is interested to see the progress that has been made. Sure, some will disagree on the extent to which TFP should go in each area so those grades are my own and someone else will have to grade it against their personal preference criteria. That's another reason for the thread so that people can discuss how they feel about the progress and what they would like to see and what has exceeded their expectations.

I know I created a distractor by referencing the review and there are some that will go for that distractor instead of focusing on the list itself and the progress made but we were talking about negative reviews in the dev discussion thread and I went and responded to some so I had these negative reviews in my mind when I typed this up. It's fine.

 
But as for Roland's post... I think he sugarcoats it a little.
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I think you are being too hard on this grade of C, I really believe according to what they stated it is at least a B.
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lol...

My grades are based on what I know including A17. That's why it isn't a fair rebuttal to the reviewer. Instead the review was simply a catalyst to inspire me to write up an analysis of the kickstarter goals based upon my own knowledge. Beniro posted his analysis based upon his experience with the game that is inclusive up to A16. So I disagree with some of his points but only because those points are handled in A17.

 
Customers are stupid... It's why they need product education.
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Are you a customer? :)

I would say "ignorant" is the correct word. A well done streamer video set will take care of that.

 
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