PC Kickstarter Goals Abandoned?!?

[mr.devolver]

Read again what you said: "it will be boring."
Even here, you have a conclusion which I, at least, can't verify. Who says you can't find a weapon with a mod already attached?

Who says you can? You should never expect something to be a part of the game that was never talked about, in case of 7 Days to Die, you shouldn't even expect things they talked about. One day they talk about stuff, next day they decide to do the exact opposite. You never know. Maybe I went little far with my assumptions, but that's my opinion based on what I've seen and read so far.

- - - Updated - - -

For one they need to make advanced weapons much rarer - I think they will, since you won't have to gather parts anymore. And quality will affect durability so this is enough of a reason to look for high quality weapons besides mod capacity.

Durability was a part of the level of quality even before, so there's nothing new there. The only new factor added is the mod capacity, but there is also a downside - base damage the weapons can do is no longer based on their level of quality, so you have one less reason to look for "high quality" weapons.

What happens when you find a low durability weapon, but you attach all the mods you like? Even if you find the same weapon, but with higher mod capacity and higher durability, you still have to find new mods for it to make a good replacement for your current weapon, so you are pretty much stuck with your current lower quality weapon and the only good news there is that its "quality doesn't degrade with repair" (according to Roland's post). Although, I can't imagine how would quality degradation work here anyway - less slots for mods? The only negative factor would probably be lower max durability, but then again that's not a part of the equation for now. This all means that unlike now, instead of being instantly rewarded with better base damage AND higher durability for the effort when you find those "higher quality" weapons, in Alpha 17+ you will still have more work to do to get the same effect (looking for mods, buying skills just to improve the base damage of your weapon, etc.). If you find it enjoyable to work harder just to achieve the same effect, then I guess we have quite different views on what makes the games fun to play.

I feel like the only thing that will really push you towards that goal is that you will need to repair that weapon more often, but without the reward of having higher base damage since all the weapons will do the same base damage for you (based on your skill). And what if the durability isn't that horrible on that weapon you already have? And what if you can actually improve the durability using another specific perk which would let you use your weapon longer (perhaps a skill that teaches you how to maintain your weapon better so that it lasts in good condition for a longer time? It's not unusual to have such perk in games, so maybe there will be one like that in 7 Days to Die too). Also if the base durability isn't horrible, perhaps it can serve you longer than you can actually use it (for example, when you find it early in game and still don't have enough ammo for it). Maybe then you will come to a conclusion that it's not that much important to risk your life specifically in attempt to find a new weapon at all and maybe instead of trying to find the "higher quality" weapon, you will try to find more ammo for the one you already have if the durability isn't that much of an issue.

Sure, if you happen to find a "higher quality" weapon on your regular scavenging run, that's always nice, but then again, they will most likely be much rarer to come by in Alpha 17+. Sure, eventually, you will have to find better guns to be able to take on much more dangerous targets, but it will take much longer due to higher rarity, so it will feel like a tedious and boring process and you will have to do it, not for being able to enjoy higher base damage, but to be one step closer to making some progress in game. One necessary step to make progress and yet the reward for doing so isn't necessarily there if you don't find the mods for it.

To have a better idea of what I'm trying to say here, just watch some let's play videos, there are many unlucky players who can't find good stuff in ages. That's boring even to watch, let alone to experience it yourself. Games should be fun. Fun goal is a goal that rewards you when you achieve it. If the reward for achieving it is more work to do under premise that you will get the actual reward for the previous goal you already finished, that's not a fun goal, that's more like trolling. I know some of you may look at this differently, but that doesn't change the fact that developers decided to artifically put the players through more work for them to achieve the same effect.

 

[KingSlayerGM]

People are upset because of the lack of vehicles and yet technically TFP didn't have to do them since that tier was never reached with the pledges originally gathered.

LMAO, as you said, technically...

practically they have earned ten times that amout of money

 

[RestInPieces]

Durability was a part of the level of quality even before, so there's nothing new there. The only new factor added is the mod capacity, but there is also a downside - base damage the weapons can do is no longer based on their level of quality, so you have one less reason to look for "high quality" weapons.

Like you say there is one reason less to look out for new weapons, but there are still two other reasons and if higher durability is not compelling enough mods will eventually be. But personally, as I've mentioned in my pre-previous post, I would like quality to affect bullet spread (although that would be better to be done by skills) or malfunction chance when it comes to guns, which I find much more immersive than damage.

If you find it enjoyable to work harder just to achieve the same effect, then I guess we have quite different views on what makes the games fun to play.

Well, to put it simply, I feel that the whole progression curve is way too fast and steep. I would prefer a much slower curve, with much harder to acquire end-game materials and a ton more effort to get to that point.

I feel like the only thing that will really push you towards that goal is that you will need to repair that weapon more often, but without the reward of having higher base damage since all the weapons will do the same base damage for you (based on your skill). And what if the durability isn't that horrible on that weapon you already have?

............

Also if the base durability isn't horrible, perhaps it can serve you longer than you can actually use it (for example, when you find it early in game and still don't have enough ammo for it). Maybe then you will come to a conclusion that it's not that much important to risk your life specifically in attempt to find a new weapon at all and maybe instead of trying to find the "higher quality" weapon, you will try to find more ammo for the one you already have if the durability isn't that much of an issue.

Mod capacity will probably be the main motivation - as for durability I agree that it leaves something to be desired. Depends largely on fine-tuning though, so I can't really say unless I've played A17. Lowering the tier of a weapon at repair, to the point of unusable would surely make it more compelling and would act as a "weapon" sink.

And what if you can actually improve the durability using another specific perk which would let you use your weapon longer (perhaps a skill that teaches you how to maintain your weapon better so that it lasts in good condition for a longer time? It's not unusual to have such perk in games, so maybe there will be one like that in 7 Days to Die too).

That would probably be very counter-intuitive to this system and I doubt it will happen.

To have a better idea of what I'm trying to say here, just watch some let's play videos, there are many unlucky players who can't find good stuff in ages. That's boring even to watch, let alone to experience it yourself. Games should be fun. Fun goal is a goal that rewards you when you achieve it. If the reward for achieving it is more work to do under premise that you will get the actual reward for the previous goal you already finished, that's not a fun goal, that's more like trolling. I know some of you may look at this differently, but that doesn't change the fact that developers decided to artifically put the players through more work for them to achieve the same effect.

Where to start. My philosophy about how the game should be is completely different. If you want my opinion, each day being alive and progressing resource, base and tech-wise should be the main "reward", like it is on other survival games, but it currently takes the backseat to the generic ARPG trope of "get more damage, kill faster", because of a variety of reasons. The "more work" part you are mentioning is actually one of the game's most interesting parts, scavenging (well, subjective). We do need more reasons to scavenge.

But I agree with one thing you are trying to say in your post - looting a weapon, only to use it much later (if you don't have a ton of mods lying around, which you shouldn't), will most likely be annoying and anti-climatic.

 

[mr.devolver]

LMAO as you said technically...
practically they have earned ten times that amout of money

Yeah, good point. There's quite a bit of controversy there. While they didn't have to do it, they still planned to do that eventually and they made sure to let the people know about that plan which is why they eventually earned more money from Steam sales, because people liked the plans TFP had with this game. It was planned all along, they just didn't know when exactly would they get to that point and even if the kickstarter goal was reached, it would most likely take years for them to actually implement it anyway, so there's no real difference there.

 

[JaxTeller718]

You can add now modifications that change those stats and attributes like strength directly affect damage now.The interesting thing will be what mods you attach.

Meh, so what. Sure you can add 3 mods instead of 2 because you found a blue over a yellow but having base damage play a part as well would have allowed a lot more customization.

If there is one thing this game is running out of it is the need for people to reacquire resources. Find a yellow club, find a blue club it only matters in terms of mod slots. It feels like that takes away a huge NEED for having to go find a better one. Sure you CAN go do it, but its not an urgency.

So this means if i find a purple club i basically never have to worry about finding another? Since it never degrades to the tier before? That's pretty lame.

Does this mean Combine is removed as well?

 

[Benjiro]

People are upset because of the lack of vehicles and yet technically TFP didn't have to do them since that tier was never reached with the pledges originally gathered.

I wonder if Roland is deliberately ignoring the massive post i wrote at the start of missing Kickstarter goals.

They hit 507.612 dollar in fundraising. That is not technically "never reached". That is technically 7.612 more then the required amount and they technically hit that goal with cash to spare.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/7daystodie/7-days-to-die-zombie-survival-game
https://steamdb.info/app/251570/graphs/

Between 2.000.000 and 5.000.000 copies sold. Even taking in account steam sales and steam taking a 30% cut, they made at minimum 30 to 40 times more money then the initial kickstarter.

So do the math ... 500.000 dollar goal that was hit, another 20 to 30 million ( or more ), plus 5 Years of time and still so much missing.

The term over promise on that 500.000 goal and under deliver comes to mind.

 

[mr.devolver]

Like you say there is one reason less to look out for new weapons, but there are still two other reasons and if higher durability is not compelling enough mods will eventually be. But personally, as I've mentioned in my pre-previous post, I would like quality to affect bullet spread (although that would be better to be done by skills) or malfunction chance when it comes to guns, which I find much more immersive than damage.

Higher durability may or may not really be a motivation for trying to find a "higher quality" weapon, I gave you enough reasons to think that way later in that post and just because you doubt that will be the case doesn't mean it will be somehow different, but we will have to see when it's released. I am skeptical though. And higher mod capacity is really just one reason and even that may not help much if your current weapon already has all the mods you really want.

Well, to put it simply, I feel that the whole progression curve is way too fast and steep. I would prefer a much slower curve, with much harder to acquire end-game materials and a ton more effort to get to that point.

Look, I'm not against slower pace, but it has to make sense, you need to feel that you're accomplishing something for your hard work and in games that's always translated into some sort of rewards you get in the process. Rewards that make sense and are actually worth the effort, if possible.

Mod capacity will probably be the main motivation - as for durability I agree that it leaves something to be desired. Depends largely on fine-tuning though, so I can't really say unless I've played A17. Lowering the tier of a weapon at repair, to the point of unusable would surely make it more compelling and would act as a "weapon" sink.

If durability can be improved somehow OR if we could at least prolong the durability (maybe with skill), mod capacity will most likely be the only real motivation and if you already had all the mods you liked on your previous weapon, you wouldn't really risk your life for a new weapon just for higher durability alone, would you? You would need much better reasons for that, but then we are talking about risking your life little more than you normally would to get that better loot, except zombies now don't drop loot and yet you still have to kill them to grab what's left from the stuff they are guarding which may or may not have that new gun you're looking for, so you may end up doing more work, going through more challenge to get the same effect, but your effort may or may not be worth it in the end.

That would probably be very counter-intuitive to this system and I doubt it will happen.

Counter intuitive? Why? It's a simple skill which could sit well in the intellect category. If anything, it would give you some compensation for having bad luck trying and failing to find a new weapon and mods and you would have to spend your skill points to get it anyway, so it's not like you would really get some advantage for free. We will have to wait and see, but we can't deny that possibility right now.

Where to start. My philosophy about how the game should be is completely different. If you want my opinion, each day being alive and progressing resource, base and tech-wise should be the main "reward", like it is on other survival games, but it currently takes the backseat to the generic ARPG trope of "get more damage, kill faster", because of a variety of reasons. The "more work" part you are mentioning is actually one of the game's most interesting parts, scavenging (well, subjective). We do need more reasons to scavenge.
But I agree with one thing you are trying to say in your post - looting a weapon, only to use it much later (if you don't have a ton of mods lying around, which you shouldn't), will most likely be annoying and anti-climatic.

My point was that you should feel like you're accomplishing something for your hard work, you should feel like you're getting somewhere for risking your life. If you find a weapon that's higher quality than your current weapon but you never manage to find those pesky mods you prefer, that will render into frustration rather than feeling of accomplishment. You don't really want a game in which the only reward for hard work is more hard work, do you?

 

[mr.devolver]

Meh, so what. Sure you can add 3 mods instead of 2 because you found a blue over a yellow but having base damage play a part as well would have allowed a lot more customization.
If there is one thing this game is running out of it is the need for people to reacquire resources. Find a yellow club, find a blue club it only matters in terms of mod slots. It feels like that takes away a huge NEED for having to go find a better one. Sure you CAN go do it, but its not an urgency.

So this means if i find a purple club i basically never have to worry about finding another? Since it never degrades to the tier before? That's pretty lame.

Does this mean Combine is removed as well?

Now this elaborates on the problem I was talking about even more, thanks for that! See? I'm not the only one who feels this way.

 

[RestInPieces]

Higher durability may or may not really be a motivation for trying to find a "higher quality" weapon, I gave you enough reasons to think that way later in that post and just because you doubt that will be the case doesn't mean it will be somehow different, but we will have to see when it's released. I am skeptical though. And higher mod capacity is really just one reason and even that may not help much if your current weapon already has all the mods you really want.
Look, I'm not against slower pace, but it has to make sense, you need to feel that you're accomplishing something for your hard work and in games that's always translated into some sort of rewards you get in the process. Rewards that make sense and are actually worth the effort, if possible.

If durability can be improved somehow OR if we could at least prolong the durability (maybe with skill), mod capacity will most likely be the only real motivation and if you already had all the mods you liked on your previous weapon, you wouldn't really risk your life for a new weapon just for higher durability alone, would you? You would need much better reasons for that, but then we are talking about risking your life little more than you normally would to get that better loot, except zombies now don't drop loot and yet you still have to kill them to grab what's left from the stuff they are guarding which may or may not have that new gun you're looking for, so you may end up doing more work, going through more challenge to get the same effect, but your effort may or may not be worth it in the end.

Well, going through more challenge to get the same effect is relative. They are still fine-tuning stuff. I mean, this has changed a few times already in many areas of the game and will change in the future most likely. And to be fair it wasn't that difficult to find a powerful weapon before, especially if you knew the safe spawn locations or visited a military base etc.

As for artificial challenge - I don't like it either, but that's mostly how the game loop works, scavenging to gather loot and so on. Personally, I would like to have even more reasons and sinks to have to do that, because at the moment things get stale after a point. A better example of artificial or "lazy" challenge imo, would be bullet-sponge/irradiated zombies with flatly higher hp and damage.

Counter intuitive? Why? It's a simple skill which could sit well in the intellect category. If anything, it would give you some compensation for having bad luck trying and failing to find a new weapon and mods and you would have to spend your skill points to get it anyway, so it's not like you would really get some advantage for free. We will have to wait and see, but we can't deny that possibility right now.

Because, as you mentioned yourself earlier, it will make durability less of an issue. Making it less of an issue, will make weapon tiers less important with only mod capacity ending up being the only motive.

My point was that you should feel like you're accomplishing something for your hard work, you should feel like you're getting somewhere for risking your life. If you find a weapon that's higher quality than your current weapon but you never manage to find those pesky mods you prefer, that will render into frustration rather than feeling of accomplishment. You don't really want a game in which the only reward for hard work is more hard work, do you?

Don't get me started on the risking your life thing, because I'll start making threads again about how death is more rewarding than punishing in this game -.-

Even if I don't mind the scavenging part or gathering mods, no matter how long it takes, I agree it will be annoying finding better weapons only to stash them in a box until you get mods, because your current weapon already has mods. I at least hope that weapons will be rarer than mods, because otherwise that will happen a lot.

 

[mr.devolver]

Well, going through more challenge to get the same effect is relative. They are still fine-tuning stuff. I mean, this has changed a few times already in many areas of the game and will change in the future most likely. And to be fair it wasn't that difficult to find a powerful weapon before, especially if you knew the safe spawn locations or visited a military base etc.
As for artificial challenge - I don't like it either, but that's mostly how the game loop works, scavenging to gather loot and so on. Personally, I would like to have even more reasons and sinks to have to do that, because at the moment things get stale after a point. A better example of artificial or "lazy" challenge imo, would be bullet-sponge/irradiated zombies with flatly higher hp and damage.

Well, before Alpha 17, you could find weapon parts in some usual places, but even then a chance of finding the parts you were actually looking for was very small and since we won't find weapon parts anymore, only fully assembled weapons, I expect that chance of finding the one you're looking for (to replace your lower quality weapon) will be even smaller. You will most likely get tons of the same low quality weapons before you finally get one of "higher quality".

Because, as you mentioned yourself earlier, it will make durability less of an issue. Making it less of an issue, will make weapon tiers less important with only mod capacity ending up being the only motive.

But then again, with no repair penalty, durability won't be much of an issue to begin with, at least for as long as you have resources required for repair, so why not add such skill? Higher mod capacity already is pretty much the only reward for finding a "higher quality" weapon anyway, that is if we don't take the "overall less nuisance of having to gather more repair resources" into consideration, because who knows? Maybe those resources required for repair will be easier to come by than "higher quality" weapons which would make the effort of trying to find a "higher quality" weapons even less rewarding.

Don't get me started on the risking your life thing, because I'll start making threads again about how death is more rewarding than punishing in this game -.-
Even if I don't mind the scavenging part or gathering mods, no matter how long it takes, I agree it will be annoying finding better weapons only to stash them in a box until you get mods, because your current weapon already has mods. I at least hope that weapons will be rarer than mods, because otherwise that will happen a lot.

I don't know what do you mean by death being rewarding more than punishing. Death was always punishing, it made you lose wellness that is hard to gain back, sure it magically cured all your health problems, but you still had to work your ass to regain your wellness and the death being a universal magic cure is no longer the case in Alpha 17 - this change was mentioned in one of the videos.

As for the weapons, like I already said, if the "higher quality" version of that weapon is too rare, you might end up with tons of the same low quality weapons before you actually find one of the "higher quality" to replace the one you already have, so perhaps you will even run into the opposite problem - you will have more mods than weapons to use those mods with and that's not nice either.

It all boils down to the need for good balance which will have to feel just right on the spot, otherwise it will be discouraging if not totally frustrating. Unfortunately, this topic is delicate even more now that they actually need to make the weapons more rare to begin with, so this overall balance conflict will inevitably occur. I can imagine that even finding the lowest tier weapon will feel like a miracle and you better keep it safe, because you won't be getting a new one any time soon, which again would be another reason for a skill that lowers the degradation rate of your weapons. That would be a part of balance too, you don't have to buy that skill if you don't want to, but if you do, you might be unable to buy a different skill that would help you more later in the game, so it's kinda self-balancing game mechanics and it definitely wouldn't come at no cost at all.

 

[Poojam]

Same reason as to why a lot of other things got removed. Simplification ... If you have 5 different meats, and you have 25 "base" recipes that use meat, that means you need 125 recipes and ... it lags out the menu. It means more work adjusting each xml file.
If it was me, i simply introduce Deer meat => base meat, base dear meat. And you let the game use one of the two types. Allowing you to keep 25 "base" recipe. But still have more meat options, what can result in unique recipes.

Why remove weapon parts when introducing weapon modifiers... Both systems can co-exist but yet, they dumped weapon parts. Simplification ...

Why use wood > plank > frames, when you can simply use wood for frames.

I have long given up that TFPs will even have a more logical crafting system. If it was up to me, you have:

Wood > Planks

Iron > Scrap > Scrap Nails

>>> Planks + Scrap Nails = Wood frames

More logic in the crafting system ( and a bigger inventory ). It also increases loot in the world and feels like cabinets etc are not completely useless after 2 days in game. Some mods even give you complete object that you can scrap for electronics, plastics etc.

Some people like complex crafting, TFP seems to think the community does not and point to Mods if you want more complex things.

Mods do a lot of this because some people like more complex crafting but the game menu lags when mods authors add 200 items or more. Known issue that TFPs for years never fixed. No idea if A17 will finally fix this.

Don't worry a lot of people are non-English native ( holds up hand ).

They had to simplify the crafting so that controllers could be supported. Plunking down components in the grid was too awkward, and controllers couldn't do a right click menu system.

 

[Roland]

Not being able to find a weapon with better base damage (because "All levels from tan to purple now do the same amount of damage if they are unmodified."), it will be boring.

It won’t be boring because some found weapons will come with a random mod already attached. So there will actually be more variation in weapons that can be found than ever before.

 

[Roland]

But you have to find those mods first and who knows what else will you need in order to attach those mods to those weapons? Perhaps it will require a specific skill hidden behind other skills, or maybe it will even require a certain item like workbench which will have to be unlocked with another specific skill? You won't have those "lucky" moments finding a high quality items on day one. I liked it when that happened.

No on any skill gates to attaching mods.

No need for a workbench.

Want mods? Do quests.

All your concerns are baseless. This aspect of the game is something to be excited about.

 

[Roland]

I wonder if Roland is deliberately ignoring the massive post i wrote at the start of missing Kickstarter goals.
They hit 507.612 dollar in fundraising. That is not technically "never reached". That is technically 7.612 more then the required amount and they technically hit that goal with cash to spare.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/7daystodie/7-days-to-die-zombie-survival-game

How so?

Promise: vehicles

Delivery: Minibike, Bicycle, Motorcycle, Jeep, Gyrocopter

I don’t think the phrase “over promise and under deliver” means what you think it means.

 

[Aldranon]

It won’t be boring because some found weapons will come with a random mod already attached. So there will actually be more variation in weapons that can be found than ever before.

Looking for a SMG with the: "Explosive incendiary rounds" mod, willing to pay 500 Dukes.

But seriously, are the mods somewhat like fallout 4?

 

[JaxTeller718]

It won’t be boring because some found weapons will come with a random mod already attached. So there will actually be more variation in weapons that can be found than ever before.

Yes but once you find that weapon with the extra mod you never have any need to go find another one, or a better one. Use it up til its last bit of health, repair it, it's STILL a Blue Quality with the same mods. And it will never be less than that.

I appreciate the spin you are trying to put on it, but i don't see how this new repair system is something that is going to "add" variation to the game.

I can add variation to the game NOW in 16 by creating 10 different club variations, the difference is all of them would degrade over use. THAT is actually variation. So again HOW is this an improvement?

Or lets use guns as an example here.

Day 1 I find a blue Sniper, day 3 I find 2 mods to attach to it. Its end game for me and that sniper. Whereas before I had to maintain the quality, hope to find better qualities or a repair book, and also use the Combine system to upgrade all the parts in my quest to make the perfect sniper. Now 90 percent of that is gone.

Talk about arcade-y.

 

[RestInPieces]

it made you lose wellness that is hard to gain back, sure it magically cured all your health problems, but you still had to work your ass to regain your wellness and the death being a universal magic cure is no longer the case in Alpha 17 - this change was mentioned in one of the videos.

Make an effort to gain wellness back, for which reason exactly? Some more max health/stamina, even less with the "health nut" perk, which I could outheal/outregen, never motivated me in the least, even at higher difficulties. Dying regularly and resetting your status was much more beneficial. Same with every one I've ever played with. Wellness was a good concept, but poorly implemented. I don't remember any information about death in any of the videos. Can you link?

 

[Roland]

Yes but once you find that weapon with the extra mod you never have any need to go find another one, or a better one. Use it up til its last bit of health, repair it, it's STILL a Blue Quality with the same mods. And it will never be less than that.
I appreciate the spin you are trying to put on it, but i don't see how this new repair system is something that is going to "add" variation to the game.

I can add variation to the game NOW in 16 by creating 10 different club variations, the difference is all of them would degrade over use. THAT is actually variation. So again HOW is this an improvement?

Or lets use guns as an example here.

Day 1 I find a blue Sniper, day 3 I find 2 mods to attach to it. Its end game for me and that sniper. Whereas before I had to maintain the quality, hope to find better qualities or a repair book, and also use the Combine system to upgrade all the parts in my quest to make the perfect sniper. Now 90 percent of that is gone.

Talk about arcade-y.

Spin? Devolver was talking about how boring it would be to find weapons because they are all basically the same with the only difference being mod slots between them. I answered that finding guns would not be boring because some would have a mod already attached so there would still be a lot of variation.

I wasn’t talking about repair at all much less trying to put some kind of pleasant spin on it. I don’t know what the final verdict of the repair system will be. All I can report is how it is right now. I highly doubt that Gazz will just let it be a freebee. That’s not really how he rolls.

What’s next? Oh I know... I should stop trying to put a spin on there being no bandits in the game yet by saying scavenging guns will not be as boring as Devolver fears...

 

[meganoth]

Higher durability may or may not really be a motivation for trying to find a "higher quality" weapon, I gave you enough reasons to think that way later in that post and just because you doubt that will be the case doesn't mean it will be somehow different, but we will have to see when it's released. I am skeptical though. And higher mod capacity is really just one reason and even that may not help much if your current weapon already has all the mods you really want.

Yes. You are absolutely correct that if the highest weapon quality has 6 mod slots and there are not enough mods to fill all these slots the motivation isn't there to look for better weapons.

The obvious solution is to provide at least as many interesting mods as there are slots. [irony] I'm sure Gazz didn't think of that at all, let's tell him [irony off]

My point was that you should feel like you're accomplishing something for your hard work, you should feel like you're getting somewhere for risking your life. If you find a weapon that's higher quality than your current weapon but you never manage to find those pesky mods you prefer, that will render into frustration rather than feeling of accomplishment. You don't really want a game in which the only reward for hard work is more hard work, do you?

In A?? up to A16 you could find a sniper rifle barrel, stock and parts but never manage to find the receiver. How is that for frustration? I tell you, you probably never felt frustration because the game offered enough possibilities for you to get that receiver. If not in a container then at the trader or in the air supply box. It will be the same for mods now.

Well, before Alpha 17, you could find weapon parts in some usual places, but even then a chance of finding the parts you were actually looking for was very small and since we won't find weapon parts anymore, only fully assembled weapons, I expect that chance of finding the one you're looking for (to replace your lower quality weapon) will be even smaller. You will most likely get tons of the same low quality weapons before you finally get one of "higher quality".

Yes, that is my expectation too (i.e. lots of low quality weapons). Your hard decision now will be whether you put your best mods into the low-quality weapons or keep them back for a better quality weapon. In the latter case you have a big motivation for finding the better weapon, right? And if you already have the better gun but not the high quality mods, do you put low quality mods into your good weapon or wait for better mods?

The fun part for the player is to decide exactly how to get the most out of the cards (aka weapons and mods) he gets dealt, just like in a good poker game.

It all boils down to the need for good balance which will have to feel just right on the spot, otherwise it will be discouraging if not totally frustrating. Unfortunately, this topic is delicate even more now that they actually need to make the weapons more rare to begin with, so this overall balance conflict will inevitably occur. I can imagine that even finding the lowest tier weapon will feel like a miracle and you better keep it safe, because you won't be getting a new one any time soon, which again would be another reason for a skill that lowers the degradation rate of your weapons. That would be a part of balance too, you don't have to buy that skill if you don't want to, but if you do, you might be unable to buy a different skill that would help you more later in the game, so it's kinda self-balancing game mechanics and it definitely wouldn't come at no cost at all.

Agree on the balance thing. Disagree on the hypothesis low tier weapons could be hard to find. Because it must be acceptable to put points into SMG if you plan on being an SMG specialist, a low tier SMG should be reasonably easy to get. Same as in any well-designed RPG where the trader in the starting or a low level town has the lowest quality version of any weapon type available to not constrict you in choosing your weapon specialization.

Lets be serious, for all the talk about making stuff scarce TFP have never made an alpha where stuff was really scarce in default vanilla. They have to balance the game for beginners in normal difficulty, an experienced player always knew how to get anything he wanted. Sure, there were items like the wrench that provided single point of failures in some alphas. But mods are not single points of failure. As far as I know they already hinted at mods having versions of different quality and surely low quality versions of any mod will be easy to find.

 

[meganoth]

No they don’t. The modification slots have been added to vehicles. Eventually there will be enhancements for those like they are doing for weapons in A17. That’s a bit deeper for customizable vehicles.

"Faster reload" and "laser scope" mods for vehicles confirmed :smile-new: