PC How do you like A17 experimental NOW?

[Kovacs]

I'm really enjoying A17. So much that I can't go back to 16.4 now.

Good:

- I absolutely LOVE the new POI dungeons. Makes it way more exciting to explore - it is not just for loot, it is cool to find secret things!

- I like the change to Zombies just disappearing and not dropping loot. I was frustrated when I first saw it, but much prefer it now. No more chopping up zombie bodies is great.

- I like the leveling XP. I'm excited when I get a new level.

- I like the farming change where seeds stick around as you harvest.

Could be better:

- I don't like the double gating via skill points and by level. This is too restrictive. If I want to rush to high level crafting while having no stamina or fighting abilities then let me choose it.

- Eating drinking feels essentially binary - you're either 100% or you're not. Make a deadband when it drops or let me get to 125% or something.

- My server crashes constantly (reported in b240 post)

- Early game stamina feels too punishing

Funny:

- Finding all the bears instead of zombies was hilarious. (didn't restart world with new Alpha) I finally had to restart my world when I ran out of bullets but I had so much meat!

Thanks for making such a great game!!

 

[HungryZombie]

I chose the worst version yet. I took 5 minutes or so to verify that the stupid death penalty still exists and stopped playing.
Taking away my character’s abilities for an extended period of time due to death takes the fun out of the game.

I'm playing with a friend of mine ... still on A16. And the death penalty is just one of the many reasons for that.
She dies frequently (due to all kinds of stuff, its kinda funny at times ^^), and its frustrating enough for her to get her backpack back and loosing wellness - which is making her even more squishy. Introducing A17 to her would be a 100% rage quit after the third death - probably on day 1. Whereas in A16 she might die but still has fun playing.

I told her about the new zombie AI and increased wall damage, then asking her if she wants to try it. Her answer: "No, thanks."

Can't say that this came as surprise.

If she wanted to have enemies scan the environment for weaknesses and take the easiest path in, destroying everything she worked for in an instant and ruining her game experience, then she would play against other human players instead of mindless computer controlled zombies.

She got a point here, I guess.

If neither of you are willing to open the console and enter one line of text to negate the death penalty then I don't think there's anything anyone could say to keep you playing.

 

[Jamey]

If neither of you are willing to open the console and enter one line of text to negate the death penalty then I don't think there's anything anyone could say to keep you playing.

This is an experimental. The purpose of it is for us to give our feedback on the current state of the game.

My feedback is that the current death penalty is a horrible game ruining experience and should be changed. The fact that I could mod the game or cheat doesn’t change the fact that the death penalty is a horrible game ruining experience and should be fixed as soon as possible.

 

[madmole]

I think the new version is definitely an improvement. But here are some things that I would like to see changed.
1. Loot, we need more of it and different types. Half of the night stands, refrigerators, lockers, etc... are "opened" already and the other half only about 70 percent of them have loot. When the pimps added the "already looted" night stands etc... you took away a lot of loot from us.

2. I would love to see the traders pay a little more for the loot that you sell. I've put 4 points into "better barter" perk and still it's no where near what it was back then. albeit, back then it may have been a little too much, but how about a middle ground between then and now. It seems the only way to save up dukes is by doing trader quests(see no. 3).

3. Trader quests need balancing. The "fetch", "clear" quests give out very little dukes compared to "buried treasure" (please don't nerf it) quests. I've tested the tier 1,2 and 3 and it's not much different. It takes a whole day to complete one of these quests. Also the perk that grants you extra dukes for completing quests needs a buff. You only get about 10 percent more dukes and it's a tier 4 perk.

I haven't had that much time to play in this version, so far this is what I would like to see changed. Like I said I think this is an improvement from the last version and I'm enjoying it. I loved looting and selling stuff that I found to the trader, it was a big part of my game. I hope you guys make this happen.

1. If its closed it has loot. If it doesn't its a bug or you were on MP and someone looted it already.

3. I've increased xp x 5 and dukes x 3 for the rewards, but it didn't make it into the stable release, so look for it in the next patch.

 

[madmole]

Still voted mixed feelings, even though overall I think that it's getting better with each patch. I'm not yet convinced though, because most big showstoppers (for me) haven't been addressed :- RWG

- not unlocking all the recipes with perks, aka bringing back some randomness / incentive to loot in order to gain access to crafting knowledge

- quality system of tools/weapons which is way too simplistic and actually raises the importance of the Intelligence tree even further (by specializing in Intelligence you get both access to the best tier of items AND the best quality, which is just too much and blows the other skill trees out of the window)

- improving by doing

Overall if those issues get addressed, I think A17 will be vastly superior than A16. But for now, i'm still not convinced I enjoy A17 more than A16, even though there's a lot of things that are awesome in A17 (dungeons, vehicles and the skill tree for Perpection, Fortitude, Strength and Agility being the most notable improvements)

Roland, can you give me some input whether the team considers doing something about these points besides RWG ?

I don't understand all the complaints about RWG. My last game the map generated 8k in maybe 1-2 minutes, and there are loads of POIs. I saw one floating building that collapsed into a pile of rubble, so it looked like a destroyed building and everything was fine. The biome distribution is weird, but it doesn't make me hate it.

 

[madmole]

I have zero issues with stamina, and I've rolled new games every day for weeks on end. All you do is the starter quest, get your 4 points and you will level up shortly after so thats 5 points. 1 into Agility (an extra 10 stamina seems to help a ton) 1 into strength, 1 sexual trex to reduce melee stamina costs, 1 into master chef. 1 into cardio if you want, but I've been getting along great without it. Do not wear any armor. Next thing I do is look for ruins buildings because they have toilets that contain murky water, and old sinks which drop cooking pots, acid and short metal pipes, all which are needed. On the way punch (uses least stamina) every red flower you see and save for making red tea (which reduces stamina use)

Stop at every nest and collect feathers and eggs. If you see any game make sure to kill it, you don't know how long it will be before you see another animal. Even if its a wolf, craft some frames or jump on a rock or car and sneak arrow it for the first shot. They aren't very hard to kill just make sure they can't get to you by standing on something, or backpedal if you are confident. The red tea reduces stamina use for a little while. Char meat and eat it to keep topped off. You can eat the fat now too and its safe without cooking. Make bacon and eggs as soon as possible, its one of the most nourishing easy to make foods. Zero stamina or hunger issues playing this way.

 

[HerrKingsley]

I have always loved starting a new game to see what the

RNG gods would give me.

But now I feel that the current system is so tedious and predictable I can't muster to start another game.

 

[madmole]

This is my first post....in general I prefer to lurk. I've been playing all the a17e versions as they come out and the most recent (b238, already obsolete I know) is terrible. The stamina losses from running and harvesting are truly punitive. I barely made it to level 12 before I just gave up.
My relevant perks, 2 in slow metabolism, 2 in sextrex, 1 in cardio, 1 in master chef. I'd start the day eating all my food, to get stamina to max, and then by noon I would already be down 30%-ish. After spending 2 out of the first 7 days doing nothing but hunting and berry picking with little food stored to show for it.

Also, when i just got the forge and and iron tools themselves aren't useable, i just logged out. Why the hell are the level gates so nonintuitive? Does it make any sense at all to allow a forge but not allow it to create anything useful? I don't want to blaze through the game in one sitting but playing in slow mo with terrible crafting options for 7 hours is borderline sadism on the part of TFP. By hour 7, i'd hope to be hitting some kind of stride, not best in game items but upgrades from the items i made within 45 seconds of creating my character.

In general, I have made it through every version of experimental with a decent outlook. I could see the goals and the slow improvements and was content to remain in the silent majority....actually playing the game. These latest builds have broken my back, I "hate" the stamina system as it is in b238 and if I return to alpha 17 it will only be with this improved, either by TFP or on a modded game. B238 is missing the critical fun.

I understand this is experimental and this is my feedback. Dev's take it for what its worth.

-Garg

*edit I forgot to mention i'm and experienced player (but not pro) playing on nomad in a rwg game.

The forge is to make iron to fix the iron tools you should have found by now, make iron doors, etc. The next rank you can start smithing tools. See my other post about stamina, what you wrote is crazy. I sprint everywhere non stop, use melee for most of my kills and have my stamina bar at least 70% full in the worst of situations where I had bad luck. There enough eggs to keep your bar at 100% forever.

 

[Druga Runda]

Uhhhh.

Was on a business trip, did not have a chance to play until now.

First impression hwell: :sad:

Pretty. Dumbed down. In that order. Looking better than ever, but I am realizing that I do not fall into the demographic/intent for whom this game is meant to be for. Finishing, with the realization that more than ever I was lucky enough to join this alpha when I did, as the early "unfinished" state was much more to what I was after from this type of game, than "closer to the finished product" state that we are getting today. It's actually getting worse for a few alpha's from gameplay perspective, and I guess I am just worn out.

What's wrong? Take arrows, shoot, collect XP - the end (do it with a gun if you feel like it). I am not motivated at all, all that content (no end game surely, but all that content early/mid game), with direction removed more than ever.

Ie loot - why bother (loot birdnests, harvest stone, kill zombies and then you will be able to loot better later), explore - why bother except to find new zombies in vicinity to level up, traders - bah nerfed or not, quests OK, but I can just shoot a few zeds instead. Guns - Ok so I can kill them with one shot instad of three... D7, that was supposed to be fun, right. I guess, but the way I can see them behaving, tower defense is removed through imablance, at the moment. However this is not the issue, the issue is in order to shoot a lot of zombies on D7, I have to focus on repeating the same action alone (find and kill zombies as I walk around) while I ignore all the rest of the game, as the rest does not matter much anymore.

Essentially the game content has been removed as the only worthwile action is to find and kill zombies, in order to get better at (or be able to?!?) doing anything else at all. In short - why bother. OK, so I need to kill 1k zombies so that I can then build without grind? What?!? were they thinking. Looks like devs are burnt out too. Gamestages is the crutch now. As you kill more zombies they become more difficult and allegedly this is why you need more and better stuff that you get through killing zombies anyhow, so it is killing zombies in an infinite loop scenario. Optimize through finding the correct rate.

What else? At least there are still 64 zombies possible, much better AI, inventory management looks good, stamina I don't care about as you can have food galore (but it is an interesting method to annoy newcomers until they learn the game mechanics, for sure). Whatever the content changes, some definitely better, some crucial (better AI), the direction is removed. Take three arrows, repeat the motion of shooting the zombies in the same way, build up perks, fall asleep. I cannot even figure melee without perks - take several swings with L1 clubat zero level, cannot hit for the life of me.

All in all, it was fun while it lasted. I am sure it will continue to be successful, but I have to find something else. Will come back to check for sure, hope it improves (kinda unlikely at this stage though), so good luck everyone!

*What was fun for me? (could not resist) This is the key difference between me and the devs - the game had natural progression, you had a ton of things to do which all rewarded you meaningfully more or less. For me it was the best during the early no perks/playing on rails/whatever days, as progression was coming from the stuff we did, and you killed zombies to survive/live in postapocalyptic world.

I needed no damn XP to motivate me kill zombies so I could do other things better/do them at all. Forge was gated through a book you had to find, not some magic education that I get from shooting three arrows into the zombie head so that I could become a better intellectual and learn how to build an anvil at the level X.

You want meaningful progress? We were there once. We used to mine, get more ore/stuff at some rate, as you do more of something, you get better. Guns, loot, mining, building, cooking, medicine, whatever, on top of it all exploration/looting had a purpose as it also rewarded you with stuff so you could do all those other things better. Fine tuned item quality (could have been better, but fine tuned compared to today). Building, learning through what was done, growing, incentivized me to explore all available game content as I was were trying to survive in a harsh world, replaced by, three arrows into the head x 1000.

We were killing to survive, I have a sense I am killing zombies to learn how to cook now. (a bad joke, but I am killing them to access game content essentially, whether nerfed or not acessible at all).

Do other things you say, but then I am either crap at doing them, or cannot do them at all, unless I kill X zombies. I was motivated to kill 1000 zombies (even with the bow if necessary) as they were impeding on my progress as I was doing something (else), like trying to survive, or waiting for end game content of the future.

Zombies were there as a threat to stop you in whatever else you were doing, they were meant to get better at being a threat, not the sole purpose of being in the gameworld.

The game is upside down now. I have to feel like mining just for the sake of it, if I want to mine (not to mention I have all the boulders on the top anyway), but to mine... well I have to kill zombies, as getting XP from anything else is virtually meaningless.

Instead of mining so that I can defend beter, build a better tower, eliminate threats. I have to look for threats now, kill them, as without killing them I do not know how to swing a damn shovel. If I feel like mining now, explore game content underground - I have to do something else first, as without that - well mining is tedious, not to mention totally unnecessary as it stands (just go and defend from a POI, and mine boulders for gunpowder).

Three shots in the head for 550XP or 10min doing something else, I'll take three headshots, thank you, and ignore all the rest this game has to give, as at least in theory I am supposed to be preparing for D7, right?

Instad of diversifying the world they built back then, they are simplifying the world and moving to lowest common denominator. Players could just as well play in creative mode in order to enjoy other content, as in the regular game the rest of the content is gated behind a number of zombie kills, and once you kill them why would you do anything else anyhow?

Right now, repeat the same three arrow shot in the head, do it 20x, level up, use perk point. Cannot help it, but :miserable: I can still go and play an earlier version though, and I did get way more out of this game than I ever hoped. It is just so unfortunate to be so close, but so far away, that's all.

Another one "so much potential, but..." game. Certainly in a much better state than Elite Dangerous, that's for sure, however :fatigue: .

**Apologies for the wall of text, but I did spend a ton of time in this gameworld, and as it seems that the time is over, wall of text tends to be the final byproduct.

 

[GeraldQL]

I just... dunno. I can't bring myself to play the update without seeing at least some nerfs to zombie block damage and player detection.

The monotony of nighttime was filled with crafting (Generally to improve skills) and upgrading the base. And it seems if I don't clear the whole region around my base, every zombie in a mile will hear me upgrading. Wouldn't be so bad if I could make it to where they're breaking in before the base is compromised. They just go through everything too quickly.

My friend and I always spent the later (-ish) game designing and constructing a huge fort where we would spend the rest of our days. Generally, we had a more pragmatic base before then or an upgraded gas station. The hunt for resources was more of a means to an end. Now, I just don't have the drive to make a base. Period.

I don't want to make a zombie trap or make the most efficient type of base known to mankind. I just want to make a large, visually appealing house that's fully upgraded (eventually). The natural early base for me was always to pick a POI, generally with a forge, and upgrade the heck out of it. You can tell me to adapt to the times, you can tell me that my base is crap, but how I WANT to play, how I have BEEN playing, just isn't possible in the current state of the game.

I also have issues with the skill system, I agree with the posts I have seen about merging it with the old "learn by doing" sort of system. it feels a bit unnecessary and a bit shoehorned in, in part becuase there's only one real way to level up.

The looting also feels a bit worse in this update, but I won't say too much because I haven't played in the most recent builds. Others have said it well enough.

Just about everything added is great. Quests, vehicles, textures, etc. I love seeing all these new blocks and objects strewn about the map.

The main issue, though, is the building aspect. I just can't play the game if I can't build how I want to build. I like my base to feel like a fortified house, not a zombie exploiting machine.

 

[JaxTeller718]

Uhhhh.
Was on a business trip, did not have a chance to play until now.

First impression hwell: :sad:

Pretty. Dumbed down. In that order. Looking better than ever, but I am realizing that I do not fall into the demographic/intent for whom this game is meant to be for. Finishing, with the realization that more than ever I was lucky enough to join this alpha when I did, as the early "unfinished" state was much more to what I was after from this type of game, than "closer to the finished product" state that we are getting today. It's actually getting worse for a few alpha's from gameplay perspective, and I guess I am just worn out.

What's wrong? Take arrows, shoot, collect XP - the end (do it with a gun if you feel like it). I am not motivated at all, all that content (no end game surely, but all that content early/mid game), with direction removed more than ever.

Ie loot - why bother (loot birdnests, harvest stone, kill zombies and then you will be able to loot better later), explore - why bother except to find new zombies in vicinity to level up, traders - bah nerfed or not, quests OK, but I can just shoot a few zeds instead. Guns - Ok so I can kill them with one shot instad of three... D7, that was supposed to be fun, right. I guess, but the way I can see them behaving, tower defense is removed through imablance, at the moment. However this is not the issue, the issue is in order to shoot a lot of zombies on D7, I have to focus on repeating the same action alone (find and kill zombies as I walk around) while I ignore all the rest of the game, as the rest does not matter much anymore.

Essentially the game content has been removed as the only worthwile action is to find and kill zombies, in order to get better at (or be able to?!?) doing anything else at all. In short - why bother. OK, so I need to kill 1k zombies so that I can then build without grind? What?!? were they thinking. Looks like devs are burnt out too. Gamestages is the crutch now. As you kill more zombies they become more difficult and allegedly this is why you need more and better stuff that you get through killing zombies anyhow, so it is killing zombies in an infinite loop scenario. Optimize through finding the correct rate.

What else? At least there are still 64 zombies possible, much better AI, inventory management looks good, stamina I don't care about as you can have food galore (but it is an interesting method to annoy newcomers until they learn the game mechanics, for sure). Whatever the content changes, some definitely better, some crucial (better AI), the direction is removed. Take three arrows, repeat the motion of shooting the zombies in the same way, build up perks, fall asleep. I cannot even figure melee without perks - take several swings with L1 clubat zero level, cannot hit for the life of me.

All in all, it was fun while it lasted. I am sure it will continue to be successful, but I have to find something else. Will come back to check for sure, hope it improves (kinda unlikely at this stage though), so good luck everyone!

*What was fun for me? (could not resist) This is the key difference between me and the devs - the game had natural progression, you had a ton of things to do which all rewarded you meaningfully more or less. For me it was the best during the early no perks/playing on rails/whatever days, as progression was coming from the stuff we did, and you killed zombies to survive/live in postapocalyptic world.

I needed no damn XP to motivate me kill zombies so I could do other things better/do them at all. Forge was gated through a book you had to find, not some magic education that I get from shooting three arrows into the zombie head so that I could become a better intellectual and learn how to build an anvil at the level X.

You want meaningful progress? We were there once. We used to mine, get more ore/stuff at some rate, as you do more of something, you get better. Guns, loot, mining, building, cooking, medicine, whatever, on top of it all exploration/looting had a purpose as it also rewarded you with stuff so you could do all those other things better. Fine tuned item quality (could have been better, but fine tuned compared to today). Building, learning through what was done, growing, incentivized me to explore all available game content as I was were trying to survive in a harsh world, replaced by, three arrows into the head x 1000.

We were killing to survive, I have a sense I am killing zombies to learn how to cook now. (a bad joke, but I am killing them to access game content essentially, whether nerfed or not acessible at all).

Do other things you say, but then I am either crap at doing them, or cannot do them at all, unless I kill X zombies. I was motivated to kill 1000 zombies (even with the bow if necessary) as they were impeding on my progress as I was doing something (else), like trying to survive, or waiting for end game content of the future.

Zombies were there as a threat to stop you in whatever else you were doing, they were meant to get better at being a threat, not the sole purpose of being in the gameworld.

The game is upside down now. I have to feel like mining just for the sake of it, if I want to mine (not to mention I have all the boulders on the top anyway), but to mine... well I have to kill zombies, as getting XP from anything else is virtually meaningless.

Instead of mining so that I can defend beter, build a better tower, eliminate threats. I have to look for threats now, kill them, as without killing them I do not know how to swing a damn shovel. If I feel like mining now, explore game content underground - I have to do something else first, as without that - well mining is tedious, not to mention totally unnecessary as it stands (just go and defend from a POI, and mine boulders for gunpowder).

Three shots in the head for 550XP or 10min doing something else, I'll take three headshots, thank you, and ignore all the rest this game has to give, as at least in theory I am supposed to be preparing for D7, right?

Instad of diversifying the world they built back then, they are simplifying the world and moving to lowest common denominator. Players could just as well play in creative mode in order to enjoy other content, as in the regular game the rest of the content is gated behind a number of zombie kills, and once you kill them why would you do anything else anyhow?

Right now, repeat the same three arrow shot in the head, do it 20x, level up, use perk point. Cannot help it, but :miserable: I can still go and play an earlier version though, and I did get way more out of this game than I ever hoped. It is just so unfortunate to be so close, but so far away, that's all.

Another one "so much potential, but..." game. Certainly in a much better state than Elite Dangerous, that's for sure, however :fatigue: .

**Apologies for the wall of text, but I did spend a ton of time in this gameworld, and as it seems that the time is over, wall of text tends to be the final byproduct.

Myself and a few others tried to convey this same sentiment during Experimental but unfortunately it was easily dismissed because its not the direction they want to take the game in. For me this Experimental was filled with lots of heartbreak as the updates each rolled in. I was often told to wait until stable because Experimental was all about change but here we are.

Maybe the public reception will help it become more clear that what people will want is NOT simplification but more content and complexity. A17 actually took the engaging gameplay and all but removed it in favor of a more linear boring perks system.

So many awesome ideas and concepts in 17, along with the amazing POI work, the graphical updates and the AI, But also so much of what all of us actually loved about the game (activity, scavenging, trade and creativity) has now either been removed or severely handicapped.

 

[HeavensDoor405]

I have zero issues with stamina, and I've rolled new games every day for weeks on end. All you do is the starter quest, get your 4 points and you will level up shortly after so thats 5 points. 1 into Agility (an extra 10 stamina seems to help a ton) 1 into strength, 1 sexual trex to reduce melee stamina costs, 1 into master chef. 1 into cardio if you want, but I've been getting along great without it. Do not wear any armor. Next thing I do is look for ruins buildings because they have toilets that contain murky water, and old sinks which drop cooking pots, acid and short metal pipes, all which are needed. On the way punch (uses least stamina) every red flower you see and save for making red tea (which reduces stamina use)
Stop at every nest and collect feathers and eggs. If you see any game make sure to kill it, you don't know how long it will be before you see another animal. Even if its a wolf, craft some frames or jump on a rock or car and sneak arrow it for the first shot. They aren't very hard to kill just make sure they can't get to you by standing on something, or backpedal if you are confident. The red tea reduces stamina use for a little while. Char meat and eat it to keep topped off. You can eat the fat now too and its safe without cooking. Make bacon and eggs as soon as possible, its one of the most nourishing easy to make foods. Zero stamina or hunger issues playing this way.

Just because you don't have issues with it doesn't make it good gameplay. I can take down a tree and kill a zombie in a starter house and I'm down to 70% stamina. Every time I peek out it drops, it's a waste of food (think of all the starving zombies in Africa). It takes away from the purpose because I'm managing a game mechanic that needn't exist in the first place outside of an illness buff. Stamina was plenty annoying in the early game in 16.4 without this crap. Can you perk your way out...sure but you'll still be managing it instead of playing the game. Also, no amount of "perks" should allow me to buy a recipe. The books were a good mechanic, sure it pissed people off when RNGesus wasn't with them, but sometimes it's better that way.

 

[Growl]

I loved A17 but two patches ago that was by far my favorite state. I generally play default state without adjusting settings.

I don't think the food management has as much of a place in this game as they're making it, I'd rather play The Long Dark for that. It feels like it takes away too much from the fun of the game.

I am not a fan of the bear problem. While running into a house of bears jumping out of closets is entertaining for a moment, it's not particularly fun....

I liked the blocked skill trees, I liked that it slowed down building progress and made the start of the game more challenging. I do miss the importance of skill books, it rewards staying in place instead of exploring.

The new patch's tweaks to power attacks are very nice.

Overall game play is much better, but I'm afraid the latest two patches are moving a little more away from my favorite state.

 

[Fenris_Wolfy]

First time posting here although I have been lurking around this forum for a few months, thought I'd try and give my opinions on the current state of A17. I personally voted for ambivalent. There are good aspects that I like and bad aspects that don't like so I'm still unsure what to make of it.

I'll start with the stuff I don't like (Cons):

- RWG is funky atm, I hate being limited to 8x8km, skyscrapers are mostly missing, and biomes are all over the place. I'll put this here even though I'm aware Kinyajuu is planning on fixing that when he has the time.

- Perk system, this is probably what I hate the most (along with the new death system). I understand that the "learn-by-doing" system was inherently exploity and grindy, but it made so much more sense to me and felt like I could specialize in certain areas at the expense of others. While I've seen the devs try and introduce specialization back into this game, but because of the fact it's gating purely behind Exp and in the case of the Intellect tree, levels, which happens to be my preferred tree as I am generally the builder/crafter in the games I play with my friends, if I want to build and craft mid to late game level stuff. I have to gain Exp which at the current moment is basically repeatedly killing zombies. You CAN gain passive exp from resource gathering and whatnot, but it's so inefficient and slow that I'll be left several levels behind my friends who are out looting and killing. I'm not asking for a return to the A16 days of shoveling the entire desert out of existence, but I'd like to only be 1-2 levels below them, not 5-7 levels below. So I suppose I will be out killing and looting with my friends whenever I possibly can and hopefully not fall too far behind in levels.

-Death system, I disliked the binary and flat wellness system, but considering how I'm the builder/crafter of the group, this new system effectively makes me worthless for 10-15 minutes and less than optimal for 30 minutes. I hated this so much i almost immediately modded this out. It's bad enough that I have to run to grab all my stuff back, but I'm gimped after the fact and am forced to essentially act as a scout/zombie trigger for my friends until I get my crafting abilities back. There needs to be something better than this.

-Left click for use button, this ones a nickpick but I'm so used to having right click on use throughout many games and this is deeply annoying to me, I'd like to at least have to option to change it to what I want.

Stuff I'm still iffy about (Not Sure):

-Quality, this could be a good replacement for my favourite A15 days. While duct taping 3 level 500 pickaxes to make 1 level 600 pickaxe never made sense to me and I'm glad that blasphemy is gone and the weird A16 progression of increasing by 50 every Tool Smithing level is done as well. I preferred A15, even with it's spamcrafting problems (why in the world did spam crafting clubs magically make my bow better?). Now it's simply a matter of getting Intelligence up, which involves getting exp which involves killing zombies (at least until other methods don't involve me being significantly lower level than your bloodthirsty peers). Mods theoretically would make up for the loss of crafting complexity and even allow for greater specializations in weapons, IF they were actually varied. Right now, finding mods is a pain early game, and later on the game, it becomes a simple act of only taking the best ones since there are so few of them that are actually viable i.e. Structural brace, Ergonomic grip, and the 15% extra to certain blocks for tools being basically the only option there is right now. This could easily be solved by adding more mods and making them easier to find earlier in the game. So I'll hold judgement of this until further balance.

- Loot, I'm one of the few people that like having zombie loot gone, I hated spending several minutes after a killing spree looting all the corpses hoping for something good when it was usually crap stuff that I have to keep anyways for crafting materials. In theory this would force us to go loot in the cities and hunt for specific stuff... except there's really not much reason to run into a Crack-A-Book when most of the recipes are in the Intelligence tree and magazines are basically space-wasting duke coins. There needs to be more specialized loot in certain POI's to force us to go in those honestly very fun dungeons. Atm, I basically raid the easier standalone POI's for basically everything I need and go to the carpark for the mechanical/electrical parts.

Now on the the stuff I like:

-POI's, man I love this dungeon style of POI's, hiding zombies around corners instead of mind-numbingly sneak attacking zombies. Makes me a lot more careful and it's quite enjoyable with a group of friends when actual strategy is required. I just wish I had more reasons to actually go in a large POI.

-Zombies, faatal has done a fantastic job on the AI, they are leagues better than the stupid zombies of A16. Still needs some work to add randomness for pathing and hopefully faster running zombies on Nightmare (you can still outrun them atm) But i like this so much more, they are legitimately a threat for once.

- Survival systems(minus the death penalty), food and water were always negligible in the older Alphas, being nothing more than wellness grinds, now they actually serve a purpose for stamina. The only issue I have with it right now is there's not much reason to eat anything except bacon/eggs and drink water, OR whatever you loot which I mostly just used immediately, but at least there's an actual reason for those systems to exist.

So overall, mixed bag. Sorry for the wall of text and I tried to keep some of my flame out of the negatives. Take of this comment what you will, I'll be playing A17 anyways, though not sure for how long, hopefully at least some of my issues with the game can be fixed. Whichever way it goes, TFP, you guys have made an excellent niche game and I've enjoyed the journey across development, even if this is one of my most disliked Alphas to date.

Cheers,

Fenris.

 

[Toy truck]

Just because you don't have issues with it doesn't make it good gameplay. I can take down a tree and kill a zombie in a starter house and I'm down to 70% stamina. Every time I peek out it drops, it's a waste of food (think of all the starving zombies in Africa). It takes away from the purpose because I'm managing a game mechanic that needn't exist in the first place outside of an illness buff. Stamina was plenty annoying in the early game in 16.4 without this crap. Can you perk your way out...sure but you'll still be managing it instead of playing the game. Also, no amount of "perks" should allow me to buy a recipe. The books were a good mechanic, sure it pissed people off when RNGesus wasn't with them, but sometimes it's better that way.

I think the devs had more of a group play vs solo rambo type players.Ulimited stamina makes game hella ez.Your right its really annoying starting out but perks really help.Someone will mod this soon so its whatever.Im more annoyed that being hot or cold encumbers u.And playing dress up everytime your cold or hot.Which takes up space.

 

[Heafus]

For me, the game has become way too hard. On A16 I played it on normal setting and have a game going near 100 days. I've died lots of times, but mostly it's my fault. With A17 on the easiest setting I cannot make it past day 3 without rage quitting. The melee has gone from feeling okay to plain out horrible. I have hit thousands of zeds on the head with various blunt objects, so I know what it is supposed to feel like. In A17 it just feels wonky. I can be standing right in front of a Zed and I will whiff over and over.

I know some of you are video game wizards and have no problem with the game, but there are lots of us casual gamers that are struggling with this build. It has become so frustrating to the point I do not want to play it anymore.

 

[eXSe]

I like the A17 in general, but there are a few gripes for me:

1. RWG is abysmal in my opinion because of the splotchy maps that are ugly, with even less biomes and the only one viable early game, i.e. forest, is defecated upon by that burnt crap... I loathe the burnt biome and everything it stands for, mostly because of the never-ending rain in it. So, that north/center/south mapping was nice in my opinion, but just delete the burnt biome... or, teach me how to do it plz

2. Skills/perks/XP - although an interesting change, novelty if nothing else (at least for me, coming from A16), I must say that I preferred learning by doing (made more sense) and skill books (made you venture out into danger for possibility of gains) over this kill X zombies so I can unlock the next thing I want. Now, you don't even need a Crack a book... magazines are just caps and crafted mods can be purchased. Not to mention that even if you have schematics, you can't build them... unless you've killed Y zombies, reached a certain level (is that back even, or you just need points? I've lost track after 231) and unlocked all the needed stuff. Maybe some kind of hybrid A16/A17 system would be preferable? I don't know really, but if I have to chose strictly between them, I'd go with A16, just because in A17 XP rewarding forces this game being solely about zombie extermination. Don't get me wrong though, I like killing them, but it shouldn't be the ONLY viable way of leveling up... 1 zed (2 heavy smacks over the head) = 550, or whatever, grass punches = 10 or 20 broken rocks... you get my drift.

3. Oh, and when I'm on the subject of rocks, you really need to up the harvest gains for rocks/raw iron, maybe wood even (I've quit playing with vanilla xmls because of the ridiculous grind). This just seems a bit masochistic if you need materials.

4. Last - item quality - better items should have better stats. Durability alone is just lazy thinking... or give us more mods and wider ranges of modding the items to our liking. Maybe tiered mods (t1 +10% dmg, t2 +20% dmg... t5 +50% dmg, just an example of a dmg mod)?

 

[Thorne]

Prying defeat from the jaws of victory! Still a general dislike from me. The improvements that in my eyes ARE improvements are too significant (NEW UNITY ENGINE!) for me to just stay back with A16, but damn you made it bitter-sweet. I'll be nursing the spot where A16 was ripped away as I fully explore the stable (laugh) A17 experience.

Does trader Jen still have a gruff male voice in stable A17? Ok, just checking. I know it's difficult--gotta find that special someone. God knows if SHE doesn't sound just right it'll be like France around here! [/sarc] (worst-case scenario, put "a woman" into Google Maps and set it to a radius of 50 miles) But the LCBs are back, right? Right? The terrain depth? No? I just want a better engine in my bike! Headlights?! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD I MISSED WITH MY HOE AND DUG UP THE PLANT BEHIND THE ONE I WAS TRYING TO GATHER AGAIN!

 

[skullpoker]

Playing un-modded, the biggest mistake is how gimped I feel by the lack of skill points. There are a few absolutely essential skills which conflict with the ability to build transportation, crafting stations, and effective tools. I can't get a solid foundation of skills needed in order to build into a given "spec".

Removing the need for perks in order to make the forge and iron tools, like in a16, would give back the feel of being able to get a solid start while leaving more of the Modifications, advanced foods/drugs, and other things gated by perks would very much improve the flow of the game (or more skill points/level, or less XP needed: Especially in experimental, we can't see enough of the game between new versions since we don't play 40+ Hrs/week). At the same time, I feel like the current RWG on Guns makes getting the initial Mechanical Parts somewhat too easy, especially given that the Mech Parts sell better than a damaged T1 gun.

I like the point where you can build the bicycle right now, but other vehicles might come a bit faster. Maybe 1 INT rank earlier?

Crafting guns is probably right about where it should be, other than the fact that it limits how good your first crafted (Pistol/shotgun/AK) will be. Likewise, you will never see a Gyrocopter under T6. Armors should be moved down a rank, as it would enhance survival given how many ferals you can find by day 2. Protection is needed.

Some of the altered recipes make things much worse for 2 reasons. We need to learn new things when most people have learned recipes as they were, and the inventory/movement dynamics mean that saving extra parts to try to build a given item will likely get you killed.

 

[CrazyWorm10mm]

Uhhhh.
Was on a business trip, did not have a chance to play until now.

First impression hwell: :sad:

Pretty. Dumbed down. In that order. Looking better than ever, but I am realizing that I do not fall into the demographic/intent for whom this game is meant to be for. Finishing, with the realization that more than ever I was lucky enough to join this alpha when I did, as the early "unfinished" state was much more to what I was after from this type of game, than "closer to the finished product" state that we are getting today. It's actually getting worse for a few alpha's from gameplay perspective, and I guess I am just worn out.

What's wrong? Take arrows, shoot, collect XP - the end (do it with a gun if you feel like it). I am not motivated at all, all that content (no end game surely, but all that content early/mid game), with direction removed more than ever.

Ie loot - why bother (loot birdnests, harvest stone, kill zombies and then you will be able to loot better later), explore - why bother except to find new zombies in vicinity to level up, traders - bah nerfed or not, quests OK, but I can just shoot a few zeds instead. Guns - Ok so I can kill them with one shot instad of three... D7, that was supposed to be fun, right. I guess, but the way I can see them behaving, tower defense is removed through imablance, at the moment. However this is not the issue, the issue is in order to shoot a lot of zombies on D7, I have to focus on repeating the same action alone (find and kill zombies as I walk around) while I ignore all the rest of the game, as the rest does not matter much anymore.

Essentially the game content has been removed as the only worthwile action is to find and kill zombies, in order to get better at (or be able to?!?) doing anything else at all. In short - why bother. OK, so I need to kill 1k zombies so that I can then build without grind? What?!? were they thinking. Looks like devs are burnt out too. Gamestages is the crutch now. As you kill more zombies they become more difficult and allegedly this is why you need more and better stuff that you get through killing zombies anyhow, so it is killing zombies in an infinite loop scenario. Optimize through finding the correct rate.

What else? At least there are still 64 zombies possible, much better AI, inventory management looks good, stamina I don't care about as you can have food galore (but it is an interesting method to annoy newcomers until they learn the game mechanics, for sure). Whatever the content changes, some definitely better, some crucial (better AI), the direction is removed. Take three arrows, repeat the motion of shooting the zombies in the same way, build up perks, fall asleep. I cannot even figure melee without perks - take several swings with L1 clubat zero level, cannot hit for the life of me.

All in all, it was fun while it lasted. I am sure it will continue to be successful, but I have to find something else. Will come back to check for sure, hope it improves (kinda unlikely at this stage though), so good luck everyone!

*What was fun for me? (could not resist) This is the key difference between me and the devs - the game had natural progression, you had a ton of things to do which all rewarded you meaningfully more or less. For me it was the best during the early no perks/playing on rails/whatever days, as progression was coming from the stuff we did, and you killed zombies to survive/live in postapocalyptic world.

I needed no damn XP to motivate me kill zombies so I could do other things better/do them at all. Forge was gated through a book you had to find, not some magic education that I get from shooting three arrows into the zombie head so that I could become a better intellectual and learn how to build an anvil at the level X.

You want meaningful progress? We were there once. We used to mine, get more ore/stuff at some rate, as you do more of something, you get better. Guns, loot, mining, building, cooking, medicine, whatever, on top of it all exploration/looting had a purpose as it also rewarded you with stuff so you could do all those other things better. Fine tuned item quality (could have been better, but fine tuned compared to today). Building, learning through what was done, growing, incentivized me to explore all available game content as I was were trying to survive in a harsh world, replaced by, three arrows into the head x 1000.

We were killing to survive, I have a sense I am killing zombies to learn how to cook now. (a bad joke, but I am killing them to access game content essentially, whether nerfed or not acessible at all).

Do other things you say, but then I am either crap at doing them, or cannot do them at all, unless I kill X zombies. I was motivated to kill 1000 zombies (even with the bow if necessary) as they were impeding on my progress as I was doing something (else), like trying to survive, or waiting for end game content of the future.

Zombies were there as a threat to stop you in whatever else you were doing, they were meant to get better at being a threat, not the sole purpose of being in the gameworld.

The game is upside down now. I have to feel like mining just for the sake of it, if I want to mine (not to mention I have all the boulders on the top anyway), but to mine... well I have to kill zombies, as getting XP from anything else is virtually meaningless.

Instead of mining so that I can defend beter, build a better tower, eliminate threats. I have to look for threats now, kill them, as without killing them I do not know how to swing a damn shovel. If I feel like mining now, explore game content underground - I have to do something else first, as without that - well mining is tedious, not to mention totally unnecessary as it stands (just go and defend from a POI, and mine boulders for gunpowder).

Three shots in the head for 550XP or 10min doing something else, I'll take three headshots, thank you, and ignore all the rest this game has to give, as at least in theory I am supposed to be preparing for D7, right?

Instad of diversifying the world they built back then, they are simplifying the world and moving to lowest common denominator. Players could just as well play in creative mode in order to enjoy other content, as in the regular game the rest of the content is gated behind a number of zombie kills, and once you kill them why would you do anything else anyhow?

Right now, repeat the same three arrow shot in the head, do it 20x, level up, use perk point. Cannot help it, but :miserable: I can still go and play an earlier version though, and I did get way more out of this game than I ever hoped. It is just so unfortunate to be so close, but so far away, that's all.

Another one "so much potential, but..." game. Certainly in a much better state than Elite Dangerous, that's for sure, however :fatigue: .

**Apologies for the wall of text, but I did spend a ton of time in this gameworld, and as it seems that the time is over, wall of text tends to be the final byproduct.

This is exactly How I feel!