PC How do you like A17 experimental NOW?

[zombie4hire]

I am overall enjoying A17 quite a bit and have few complaints about it. Each time I restart I am trying a new way to build (though a lot stays the same as it needs to to kill zombies and not die) This time I am trying the better barter and the quality 6 items with full mods are really nice. And cheap overall. They might be a bit much as I am not very high level now.

I like the direction of the game too.

 

[LuckyStar]

Naw, was just trying to start crap.

 

[FileMachete]

I didn't cast a vote since I haven't made it past day 24? in any of the exp's so far.

1) ok. truly -not- intending to be a jerk w this one. The time between A16.4 & A17exp. I didn't know what to expect, but I did expect more. And yes, the whole expectations lead to premeditated resentments, bit gnawed at me for a while.

Reason I even bring it up is due to my perception that A17 is quite 'rough' so far. Again, expectations. Honestly been suprised by how many basic mechanics are changing quite significantly between builds.

2) In b208 I'd made it to a point around day 19 where grinding for materials had just started to feel 'ok'. Material gathering in the first week is just far to frustrating for me to consider it balanced or 'fun'.

3) Early Base Building. faatal is working on the AI, so that alone could significantly change early bases. And I haven't made a test world to try all kinds of things, so some of this is likely on me. What I'm hoping for later on is the possibility of an early base where I can do some melee'ing. Personally I don't like standing on top of a tower just shooting down. And I really don't like the 'new' giant field of spikes 'solution'.

--This may sound stupid, but something as simple as a retractable fire-escape ladder would be a big qol thing for me.

--I've figured out how to mimic one by hanging the ladder from a frame so the ladder breaks when frame is pulled up, but it feels a bit cheesy, like the maze bases.

4) Wood Bars. Frickin -love- those things. Also like all the new Quarter blocks, but...

**** -Please- return the Flagstone/Cobblestone 1/4 Block that fits into the -corner-; the one in-game is centered on the _side_

5) Really like that an early game Dog/Wolf isn't an automatic death sentence. Though they could be a bit tougher, imo. As is a Boar is much more dangerous. Sure, irl, a 300 pound wild boar is truly life threatening, more than a mid-sized dog, but the boars in game look like maybe 50-70 pounds?

6) Like the ramp up on the wandering horde sizes.

7) New game options for zombie speeds is great!

8) Stealth System. Reducing our ability to hear when crouched is very counterintuitive. No idea if it can be changed, or if there's interest to do so. Displaying both Light & Sound as one value results in the meter not being very useful when z's can not have any line of sight to you; in a mine, inside a closed room, and you have a helmet light or torches.

9) Land Claim Blocks. I don't play MP/PvP so no idea if there was an exploit that pushed the changes to LCBs. For SP it's a real pita so far, heh. Follow the advice and claim a POI as first base. I just took over the large Gas station in the East in Nav map. LCB area isn't large enough to cover it. Not a huge deal, I hope; there are a few areas where it looks like a z can spawn.

Biggest catch-22 is that w only 1 LCB allowed to be active at a time, I'll have to fully move out of my current 'base' prior to clearing and moving into another POI, if I should choose to do so.

-- What I would greatly prefer would be if 'active LCBs' were restricted to something like;

-- a) Player can not have more than 5 Active LCBs <-- arbitrary number

-- b) A players LCBs can not be within 1 km of each other. <-- add a warning prior to placement if within 1 click?

-- c) add a 'Large Land Claim Block' to support large base builds.

?? no idea what the MP/PvP impacts/exploits were/are, so maybe the above wouldn't work or just make things worse. If so I'd really appreciate someone detailing the issues for me, just for my peace of mind

10) The most recent improvements to frame rates and the added vibrancy to forest biome, yay! Very much appreciated!!

So that's where I'm at. Please keep in mind that the above is almost exclusively impressions from only the first week or two in-game. I've only made it to a minibike once. Concrete Mixer twice. And all in Nav map, no RWG seeds.

Edit: I'm not mentioning Stamina, it's mechanic or the bar. I've said my piece in other posts on this.

 

[Teknosis]

I enjoyed RWG more when dessert was in the South and Snow was in the North and everything in between was Forest. The patchwork xml biomes are just bizzare and horribly breaks immersion for me. I know random world gen should be random but it should also make sense and currently the quilt of random biomes don't

I love, Love the weapon changes and reduction to simple tires of quality. It does seem that the higher quality items should also do at least slightly more damage but that is a very minor issue to me.

Changes to attributes and perks are great. I actually care about all of them now and it forces choice which is a good thing. There should be meaning to what we choose and this actually makes those choices meaningful.

The zombie changes I also think are good but I haven't gotten far enough in to really have an opinion on them. They do seem to be more leathal to begin with but that might be lack of armor and endurance perks, also a good thing IMO

Making every POI dungeon makes RWG much better to play. You aren't looting any house is worthless instead of finding specific ones

Visual changes are also improved and appreciated.

Overall best yet I think although I do wish RWG Biomes made more sense or we're less patchwork

 

[vedrit]

None of these are applicable as I've not played in a while. Reading through the patch notes, it looks like some of my bigger concerns might have been addressed, but unfortunately I'm going on vacation and so won't be able to play for a while

 

[beHypE]

Still voted mixed feelings, even though overall I think that it's getting better with each patch. I'm not yet convinced though, because most big showstoppers (for me) haven't been addressed :

- RWG

- not unlocking all the recipes with perks, aka bringing back some randomness / incentive to loot in order to gain access to crafting knowledge

- quality system of tools/weapons which is way too simplistic and actually raises the importance of the Intelligence tree even further (by specializing in Intelligence you get both access to the best tier of items AND the best quality, which is just too much and blows the other skill trees out of the window)

- improving by doing

Overall if those issues get addressed, I think A17 will be vastly superior than A16. But for now, i'm still not convinced I enjoy A17 more than A16, even though there's a lot of things that are awesome in A17 (dungeons, vehicles and the skill tree for Perpection, Fortitude, Strength and Agility being the most notable improvements)

Roland, can you give me some input whether the team considers doing something about these points besides RWG ?

 

[Bromm]

Ah crap, I selected option 2. "In general I hate it" (which is true) but when I hit vote my fat finger double tapped the screen and my vote changed to "It's the best" and immediately registered a second tap so the wrong choice was submitted.

 

[Kattla]

Started out fairly ok with b194 - b221.

Then came the stamina nerf of 231. First time i done an xml mod to make it

playable. (from 0.0082 to 0.0022). Done so for 233 and 238 too. No regrets.

As much as i like the updated RWG, it makes it much tougher to play with at

the earlier levels, before i get the right clothing. After that, it's somewhat playable.

The biome patches are just too small. If i'd knew how, i'd modded it to like 4 - 5 large

patches.

Lastly, the trader nerfing. I think this express my feelings about it. A bit rude though. uke:

I suppose it's a bit of either adapting or just remove myself from the game. I usually says

a game that is not entertaining is not worth playing.

We'll see what A17 stable will bring. I don't have too high hopes for it, but i know TFP are like

cats, they usually land on their feets, so, we'll see.

 

[Royal Deluxe]

Raise coffee in the vending machines and i can adapt to the rest.

(Since the coffee nerf startgame is unplayable, I NEED MORE STAMINA !!!!)

(Glue value of sand and these other stuff is fixed ? if not fix it)

 

[Noompsie]

But each patch, we lose more, and larger handicaps keep getting placed upon us.

This ^

Edit: I have always played vanilla no mods, and loved it. In fact I was quite anti Mods. Since the stamina nerf and extreme hunger of the last two patches, I now play heavily modded because the alternative is not playing at all.

 

[Spanky Deluxe]

I'm really enjoying it but I really don't like the high cost of skill levels. Having to sit on points for 11 levels (i.e. to go from rank 8 to rank 10 seeing as rank 9 gives nothing of value) just doesn't seem like fun. Instead of having 10 levels for the 'main' stats, you could maybe have 5 levels with the cost of each one simply being it's numerical value. I.e. rank 5 costs 5 skill points but gives exactly the same perks as level 10 does now.

 

[Tman]

Liked b233, felt like survival once again. Assembled mods at traders were a bit too common, but else it was quite nice, with all the additions of A17 elsewhere.

B238 once more, feels like cancer.

edit:

Regarding the ohhh so evil forge...

As so many of those "we want lvl-gating back"-guys fear they can't show their 1337-ness anymore with earlier available forges (while they actually could with a bit of self-discipline by simply not using the forge if they do like the early game as much as they claim...), then why not giving those guys that tad bit of help with their consistency?

Adding in a game setting for it...

[x] Nomad-mode

"Life is short and the apocalypse doesn't wait for you!" - Building is disabled.

(or "hit the road"-mode, as Nomad is already used for a diff-setting, but you get the idea, maybe even add their beloved lvl-gating for other stuff)

So they can have their stuff and ooze out their pro-ness while not ruining the game for others.

 

[beHypE]

Regarding the ohhh so evil forge...

As so many of those "we want lvl-gating back"-guys fear they can't show their 1337-ness anymore with earlier available forges (while they actually could with a bit of self-discipline by simply not using the forge if they do like the early game as much as they claim...), then why not giving those guys that tad bit of help with their consistency?

Adding in a game setting for it...

[x] Nomad-mode

"Life is short and the apocalypse doesn't wait for you!" - Building is disabled. (or even add their beloved lvl-gating for other stuff)

So they can have their stuff and ooze out their pro-ness while not ruining the game for others.

Sorry but this is frankly retarded thinking. By that logic why not ungate everything, make every recipe craftable day 1, hell even give everyone the needed resources to craft everything, and let everyone decide at which pace they want to play ? Because unlocking stuff is the key component to gratification. Nothing feels rewarding if it's handed to you for no effort.

It's exactly the same logic Roland uses (no offense Roland, I think highly of you) when he states that "replayability can be achieved by just choosing different skills each time", while I argue that what made replayability as awesome as it was was the randomness of books. It may be true to some people, but i'm pretty sure most people just stick with what works for them, or at least are going to rush Intelligence because it actually opens up all the possibilities of the game. Sure, you may like roleplaying a retarded warrior that puts everything in Strength, but overall, most will find their own "min-max" and stick to it. And it will get old quick.

 

[HeavensDoor405]

I'm still at 16.4 was fine, but needed more content. B233 is something I'm dealing with, it's not fun. The stamina is THE big thing. I enjoy building, I came to this game from Minecraft. I didn't start playing it until A15, and I liked it just fine too. I updated to get the added electricity stuff. I was really hopeful that the unity updates would optimize the game somewhat, was excited for more vehicles, and really excited about new POIs, but the other changes were unneeded.

 

[Aldranon]

Sorry but this is frankly retarded thinking. By that logic why not ungate everything, make every recipe craftable day 1, hell even give everyone the needed resources to craft everything, and let everyone decide at which pace they want to play ? Because unlocking stuff is the key component to gratification. Nothing feels rewarding if it's handed to you for no effort.
It's exactly the same logic Roland uses (no offense Roland, I think highly of you) when he states that "replayability can be achieved by just choosing different skills each time", while I argue that what made replayability as awesome as it was was the randomness of books. It may be true to some people, but i'm pretty sure most people just stick with what works for them, or at least are going to rush Intelligence because it actually opens up all the possibilities of the game. Sure, you may like roleplaying a retarded warrior that puts everything in Strength, but overall, most will find their own "min-max" and stick to it. And it will get old quick.

Hmmm, you're right, but only because most people need encouragement to try new things.

How's this: Quests based on players perk levels!

For me, the Agility line has just started to show its potential. Before seeming to be the weakest line in the group, at least the hardest to play.

Also Agility has a big potential for the most special quests. Of course, Intelligence has a lot of potential for special quests too.

 

[Tman]

Sorry but this is frankly retarded thinking. By that logic why not ungate everything, make every recipe craftable day 1, hell even give everyone the needed resources to craft everything, and let everyone decide at which pace they want to play ? Because unlocking stuff is the key component to gratification. Nothing feels rewarding if it's handed to you for no effort.
It's exactly the same logic Roland uses (no offense Roland, I think highly of you) when he states that "replayability can be achieved by just choosing different skills each time", while I argue that what made replayability as awesome as it was was the randomness of books. It may be true to some people, but i'm pretty sure most people just stick with what works for them, or at least are going to rush Intelligence because it actually opens up all the possibilities of the game. Sure, you may like roleplaying a retarded warrior that puts everything in Strength, but overall, most will find their own "min-max" and stick to it. And it will get old quick.

Well, adding a "sorry" or "no offense" to every sentence doesn't make it any more polite, but well, let's skip that.

As is possible to see I wrote about lvl-gating. Did I wrote about other requirements? Hmm... not here, not there... oh, right, I did not. I wrote about player level gating! The enforced bump in the road of character developement. Not about attribute requirements, not material requirements, not about strategic ones. Level-gating. So your try to establish a reductio ad absurdum doesn't work here. XP gain is either up or stagnation, it's linear, were the other can interact in way more versatile ways. So level-gating together with the XP needed to gain perks/skills is actually squaring the application of the XP influence.

Also if you decide to go for 1 way all the time it's exactly that: YOUR DECISION. Nobody forces you to do that, a level gate does. That's the difference.

edit: typo

 

[jdifran]

I haven't yet launched B238, but B233 just felt terribly tedious and grindy in the first few days. Constantly encumbered, constantly out of stamina, constantly hungry, and not enough points early on to make much of a difference. Just trying to get enough stone and mud to get enough cobblestone to fortify a POI and make a fighting platform for the first horde night took forever, and I hadn't even started on the spikes.

Yes, the early game should be challenging. No, it should not be a tedious, frustrating grind. Players new to the game would quit in frustration before they got to Day 7.

 

[Ardanza]

Just to throw my 2 cents in.

I believe this update has gone in a positive direction overall, as far as visuals, AI, pathfinding, movement, houses with "mazes", and a few other things i can't think of at the top of my head right now.

Things I dislike:

Current Leveling System

- XP granted for crafting, building, digging is too low IMO

- Only way to get XP that is worth anything is to go kill zombies

- I REALLY miss the old leveling system in A16, as far as being better at something through use, but I LOVE the Perception, Strength, Con idea

Suggestion:

- Mix the two systems together. Have the athletics, digging, construction, melee weapons, ranged weapons level up through use and the such, but make the cap level depended on the level of the Perception, strength, etc. These actions should only be increased through use, not use any skill points to be used to be increased.

-- Ex. Level 1 Strength, caps Melee skill to 10. Attacking with melee weapons increases melee skill.

- Levels should still award skill points which can be used to increase Perception, Strength, etc.

- Skill Points should be used to increase the Perks which are currently available.

*Alternative Suggestion*

- Instead of increase Perception, Strength, etc. with skill points, have this during character creation where not one person can have 10 in all attributes. Have it where people will have 30 Attribute points to distribute over there character to have specializations.

OR

- Attributes are increased through actions overall, so Athletics will give small XP bonus to Agility where one can increase their agility score through running, dodging, etc. This system would be more preferred.

Other Gripes

- Schematics are not easily known whether or not I am able to learn X or Y schematic or what the requirement is in order to learn it that's found in the world.

- Stamina is tied to Food alone. I believe it should be a 70/30 ratio From Water:Food to determine your overall max stamina. Food alone should not be tied to stamina. I'll even go as far to say 60/40 ratio would be better than what it is.

- GUI still could use some polishing, but having "pages" and not Scrolling is a bit on the annoying side IMO. A lot of bloat with Text, especially with the Strength, Intel, etc. hierarchy that was a little confusing at first with everything being the same text size.

- I think zombies make no sounds at all sometimes, causing death quite often for not seeing them. Have had instances where zombies would "spawn" in a house in the same room i'm in that were not there

 

[lord_ahriman]

Still think A17 is overall better than A16, but TFP should give us builders a little bit more love: grind is harder and I would like to be able to get more iron, nitrate and coal, but mainly Xp, it's way low!! Effective explosive weapons would be good too, because exploding bolts and pipe bombs are useless (please, fix molotov throw mecanincs too!).

 

[Inmyh3ad]

In general I love it. The things I don't like are overshadowed by the good.

Why?

I miss the zombie loot, RWG like it was in A16, the 2 removed biomes and the skyscrapers.

But right now, I enjoy playing A17e. The level gates are a good, new addition in my eyes. You actually have to work towards something to achieve it. Multiplayer is also a lot more immersive then before.

Can't wait for more updates. You guys are doing a great job improving this game. Thumbs up TFP!