PC Horde Night is DEAD

1 You can safely ride around on a vehicle for the duration of horde night. - Don't like it ? don't do it.2 you find yourself making expensive repairs afterward. - That my friend has been in the game from day one and is a core part of the game.

3 If you make a base that does cheese the AI, you are likely doing this to gain XP. - See No 1

4 but we are still left with the same problem of expensive repairs and little reward. - See No 2

5 set a base and defend a base just for the sake of doing so... because it is fun. - See No2... and yes it is fun.

6 A no-XP mod solves some of the problem. - NOPE. See No2... and yes this MAY be a problem for some so just Mod it in.

7 There are many reports of people in multi-player who simply log off the server when horde night comes. This is true but if they want to play that way, let them.

One of the main things i like about 7DTD is you can play the game the way you like... i hate games that make you play one way and lock you down to that play style.

In short... let players play the way they want to, don't lock players down just be cause SOME players don't like a small part of the game.

Now there is one thing that i'm with the OP on 100% is that there does need to be more reward added. I loved the old days when you use to get ammo, gear and food ect off killing the Zombies and yes you now get all that from looting POI's but as the OP says removing the zombie loot has taken away from Horde nights.... Maybe add more and better drops from them just for Horde night ???
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Tell me one reason someone shouldn't treat you like a troll with statements like "players being locked into a playstyle", at the time the game has a ridiculous amount of options to tailor your "playstyle".

So all you have is "no1" and "no2", which you like to redirect people to, so let's see.

The "don't like it, don't do it" catchphrase would be better used along something equally complex with... I don't know, making eggs for dinner or taking the dog for a walk or something. It's one of those things you expect to see on a Facebook wall:

[ "Don't like it, Don't do it" - Albert Eistein ] with a black and white sunset for a background.

We already have a ton of optional game elements *through a menu*, but I take it you don't know what "synergy" is either.

With the above logic, there is no reason to fix any exploit, there is no reason to have any limits at anything, we could even be able to fly, clip through everything and destroy mountains with a punch or whatever 'cause "don't like it don't do it", everything's cool. Stellar argument, always happy to see it.

"That has been in the game from day 1". Pretty strong point, can't refute it. If you do something for the sake of doing it and that has been in the game since day 1, god forbid that was changed. It is common knowledge that the more time something has been in the game, the more credit it gets, the more it matures, like a nice ol' bottle of whiskey, like an ageing vampire or smth. So the concept of doing something for the sake of doing it is clearly a core element.

And in the end, the classic moar rewards solution. Too much time wasted here.

 
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I could go for something like that, sure. The only thing I worry about though, is wouldn't this mess with most of the traps we have for defense? Blade traps, dart traps, electric fence?
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thats why i said batteries only.

generators still work fine because they are burning fuel and dont store electricity.

I dont know :D find a way to explain it :p or just say it only affects mobile electricity because it is too weak (a carbattery isnt weak per se but still weaker than a 1000w generator :D )

 
Considering that HN only penalizes the player currently, when in the past it awarded with a lot of loot which apart from repairing your base, was enough to make you feel progressing forward. Now you get only XP which increases difficulty and perhaps some bags if you're lucky enough, but most likely will give food.
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Yes, in the past zombies acted as infinite delivery devices bringing loot right in front of your door, destroying any sense of item economy, completely inflating it and taking away some of the need for exploration. That is somewhat of a problem, no?

To some extent we all are people who thrive to have the best possible way to play the game, some people only in little steps, but it's still there. You gain experience in the order of skills you unlock (first pack mule, perhaps stealth, Sex T-Rex or aim for the forge), what materials you need first (focus on wood or stone, dirt and sand later, etc.), where you explore (burning is good with building corners, desert is too vast, forest is always good, etc.), how you build your base (take over a POI, build something from scratch or dig into the ground) and many other aspects of the game. Along all of that is the enjoyment we get, but it doesn't mean we don't strive to GIT GUD.
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Atm the BM as a threat mechanism is as threaning as they come. There isn't anything more threatening. The exact point I am trying to make is: the greatest and foremost incentive to fight the horde must be survival - not rewards. Because if your survival isn't threatened in the most threatening event of the game and the main incentive is to get rewarded instead, there is not much meaning to that reward in the first place - since the purpose of the reward is continued survival. Unfortunately and unavoidably "threatened" means risk of loss. Can't have it any other way, that's what the core meaning is. Some complimentary rewards might work, but if there isn't something at stake, the whole concept will remain fallacious.

Apart from what everyone said, there's not much more to be said about Horde Night.- It SHOULD NOT be avoidable.

- It SHOULD be difficult.

- It SHOULD scale according to player progression, not faster nor slower. A good equilibrium is required in everything.

- It SHOULD give a sense of reward, unless it's only purpose will be to haunt the player (like the incoming hordes in They Are Billions). In its current state, it does neither of those.

- It SHOULD be satisfying as you kill the last zombie victorious.

- It SHOULD have a breather, so you don't have a WH on you 2 minutes after sunrise. I imagine HN as the gathering of EVERYTHING from around, i don't suspect a single group decide to wait till dawn to ambush me...
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1) Agree - this is the most important part by far.

2) Agree - at least compared to the rest of the game.

3) I guess it has to, even if I don't like the general scaling, BM is an event and it probably can't be helped. Some randomization is always vital though.

4) In an imaginary, ideal state, survival will be the best reward you can imagine, trust me on that.

5) Definitely.

6) Agree - chain deaths should be avoided (but deaths should matter equally and not like they ...don't atm, at least hope for an option).

 
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RE: Guarding the LCB

It wouldn't make much difference to me either way except in MP. In MP, we can't all always be there. Defending a friendo's LCB wouldn't be hard because we all build a central base, but any friendo who couldn't make it to horde night then loses out. A single skill point isn't a huge loss though. If a server constantly has people jumping in and out, then there would definitely need to be a way to exclude bases/LCBs of people who just aren't playing when the server hits horde night.

RE: Bloodmoon electrical problems

Could be fun. I do think that either through repairing or learning to make 'better' systems, tools need to be available to offset the effects at some point.

 
Is this a survival game or is this minecraft?
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It's both. 7 Days to die contains elements of different types of games. Basebuilding and the bloodmoon horde are for me rather elements from tower defense games than from classic survival games.

 
thats why i said batteries only.generators still work fine because they are burning fuel and dont store electricity.

I dont know :D find a way to explain it :p or just say it only affects mobile electricity because it is too weak (a carbattery isnt weak per se but still weaker than a 1000w generator :D )
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Is this magical Blood Moon EMP going to disable the logout button as well?

Just what battery/electronics in the bicycle did it impair?

Especially as the game now supports disabling the Blood Moon Horde right there in the in-game menu options, why are you so worked up about what other people do during the Blood Moon? However they choose to disable it, they will, and there's no system TFP could (reasonably) put in place that will stop that.

 
I just play with horde nights disabled now. It simply isn't fun dealing with the chore that is HN. It's easy enough to avoid even without vehicles if enabled and there is no reward for dealing with it head on. Why some people here cant understand giving HN some basic rewards for dealing with it, I will never know. I like how other games like terraria deal with there horde night by having unique enemies attack you on that night that give unique loot. Or say the game Dying Light where you get 2x exp for activities done during the night time, but say apply that instead for HN in 7days in some fashion. Until they give us a reason to deal with the horde directly, then I'll just play the game without HN or just avoiding the horde ontop of random pois or with a vehicle.

 
Is this magical Blood Moon EMP going to disable the logout button as well?
Just what battery/electronics in the bicycle did it impair?

Especially as the game now supports disabling the Blood Moon Horde right there in the in-game menu options, why are you so worked up about what other people do during the Blood Moon? However they choose to disable it, they will, and there's no system TFP could (reasonably) put in place that will stop that.
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Maybe. I know it is the magical Blood Moon that makes zombies magicially attract to you without having any hint of where you could be. Maybe we should get rid of that as well.

You are correct. It is an option. So when I select "I want a hordenight" I don't need to handicap myself when I try to overcome that hordenight.

There is no solution to online logouts. And there is no solution to offline commands.

But both are not part of the game.

So if you think that logging off is the same as using vehicles, why are you making such a fuss about keeping this as it is?

You don't lose anything because you can still logout of put the settings on "no hordenight".

I lose tons and tons of immersion because I know at every second in the hordenight i can be safe by just using my vehicle.

But luckily TFPs agree with me in this one regard and are working on fixing these exploits.

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I just play with horde nights disabled now. It simply isn't fun dealing with the chore that is HN. It's easy enough to avoid even without vehicles if enabled and there is no reward for dealing with it head on. Why some people here cant understand giving HN some basic rewards for dealing with it, I will never know. I like how other games like terraria deal with there horde night by having unique enemies attack you on that night that give unique loot. Or say the game Dying Light where you get 2x exp for activities done during the night time, but say apply that instead for HN in 7days in some fashion. Until they give us a reason to deal with the horde directly, then I'll just play the game without HN or just avoiding the horde ontop of random pois or with a vehicle.
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+1 for your right to choose this way.

I dont want to. I want to be forced to build and level up to face the bm horde.

 
I dont want to. I want to be forced to build and level up to face the bm horde.
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And if the implementation is optional then I'd have no objection. I don't want though, my vehicle to magically stop working on BH night while I'm out looting and my friend is guarding the base say, just so that one of the un-countably many ways BM nights can be avoided is closed off.

 
Why some people here cant understand giving HN some basic rewards for dealing with it, I will never know.
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Probably for the same reason that people who want rewards can't understand the ppl on the 'other' side of line think that beating the horde is the reward. I tend to fall more in that direction. Sure, the loot is nice, but personally, my reward has always been successful base design/actively defending my base. Or even base failure and then I really have to think quick to not only keep my butt alive but also to keep my resources from being obliterated.

I like how other games like terraria deal with there horde night by having unique enemies attack you on that night that give unique loot.
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This could be interesting. Horde night loot perhaps has a higher chance of getting mods or full pieces of armor.

 
But luckily TFPs agree with me in this one regard and are working on fixing these exploits.
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I wouldn't be so sure. Gazz once wrote that he sees escape as a legitimate option for the horde night and madmole once wrote that there might be a stealth perk in the future with which you can even hide from the horde.

 
Is this magical Blood Moon EMP going to disable the logout button as well?
Just what battery/electronics in the bicycle did it impair?

Especially as the game now supports disabling the Blood Moon Horde right there in the in-game menu options, why are you so worked up about what other people do during the Blood Moon? However they choose to disable it, they will, and there's no system TFP could (reasonably) put in place that will stop that.
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What is the science between the red sky? The sudden multiple thunders? The green glowing bullet sponges?

I don't think an "EMP" is stretching it nowadays. Can come in the form of an enemy (like the screamer), at random periods of time like lightning and will even add depth to the defense process during a BM since it will disable most contraptions. Doesn't have to last for long, like you imagine it. But even a little while would make vehicles not worth using due to the risk of being destroyed.

Especially now that there is an option, there is no longer an excuse that "people are forced into xxx" (which was always a reason to avoid any meaningful synergy with which the game could engage its players - god forbid!). Or is that still taking the right away from people to disable the BM with ...multiple ways some of which having the side-effect of making an important game element optional, thus, taking away any sense of urgency or purpose from it?

Oh the bicycle! Damn it! Never mind let's scrap the idea... or I don't know, make the bicycle slower than the max zombie speed? As it also should have been in the first place?

And what was that about the logout button again? Was my first answer not sufficient? Should they also balance the game over the fact that it doesn't "pause" in MP servers in general? For someone who might want to visit the bathroom perhaps? Eat? Or go out to grab a coffee? Are you seriously saying that they should design the game around your ability to... stop playing?

 
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One thing I've noticed in the settings for horde night how many zombies one can have at once. So if a person sets it to 8, on horde night they'll get 8 zombies, and repeart once they kill them 8 more zombies come in. How about instead, it would dictate zombie waves? Especially since if the default time for a normal game is 22:00-04:00, once it reaches morning no more zombies. The way I envision it in the wave mechanic:

-Game time could be normal, but once it reaches morning if you still have one last wave of zombies they will still come.

Example: Zombie wave of 8.

Waves will come with a varied amount of zombies and types.

Gimmicky reward: Zombie boss in the last wave that would drop a loot bag or a supply drop will appear after killing the last wave + zombie boss.

 
Are you seriously saying that they should design the game around your ability to... stop playing?
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No, not at all, I'm just pointing out there is no way to stop people from avoiding BM nights (even when they are configured by the in-game options to occur), nor any way to disable vehicles that is even remotely supportive of "immersion" given that the game has a bicycle now, which has not so much as a Tandy-1983 pocket calculators worth of electronics to it.

So given that it can't be done immersively or comprehensively, I struggle to see the benefit in TFP trying.

I don't really mind if they do though, so long as player freedom is preserved (even to skip the Horde if that's what they want to do, despite these new random hordes being one of my very favourite A17 game mechanics).

 
No, not at all, I'm just pointing out there is no way to stop people from avoiding BM nights
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I don't care what other people do.

I don't cheat, so logging off or using the console is not an option for me. But a vehicle is part of the gamedesign and should be factored into the rest of the gameplay.

And yes they should definatly try and make every exploit go away as best as they possibly can. Bugfixing is part of gamedevelopment!

They won't be able to fix all. But you are trying to argue since they cant fix all they should fix none.

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I wouldn't be so sure. Gazz once wrote that he sees escape as a legitimate option for the horde night and madmole once wrote that there might be a stealth perk in the future with which you can even hide from the horde.
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If there is a legitimate option for it (like some sort of anti zombiespray that costs massive ressources) I'm all up for it to avoid one hordenight.

A "spend a point here and the setting "bloodmoon horde" turns off" is stupid though.

 
1. Make zombies on HN faster than the player, way faster.

2. Make zombies in general have less HP and do a little less damage. This goes in pair with #1 as the danger would be with faster Zs and less bullet spongy enemies. Easy to add a few more variants of zombies to the club.

3. Make bicycle a bit slower than zombies on HN. During normal days and nights it will be faster, but slower on HN. Other vehicles need to be a bit faster than HN zombies, but they can stop working/have debuffs (like above).

@RIP - I don't mind not having a reward after a HN, but it would be a lot more interesting if either there was a small reward or you had a sense of achievement/passing a milestone. Sure you survive and it can be a reward of itself, but only when you had a good fight. I wouldn't mind on lower GS a big number of very weak zombies marching in, would be more interesting than 10-20 zombies throughout the night.

EDIT: 4. Give the possibilities to use some drinks/food/meds that would enhance the player speed a bit over the HN zombie speed, allowing the player to have the benefit, but at the cost of resources (late game) and a small period of time (plus consequences).

 
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No, not at all, I'm just pointing out there is no way to stop people from avoiding BM nights (even when they are configured by the in-game options to occur), nor any way to disable vehicles that is even remotely supportive of "immersion" given that the game has a bicycle now, which has not so much as a Tandy-1983 pocket calculators worth of electronics to it.
So given that it can't be done immersively or comprehensively, I struggle to see the benefit in TFP trying.

I don't really mind if they do though, so long as player freedom is preserved (even to skip the Horde if that's what they want to do, despite these new random hordes being one of my very favourite A17 game mechanics).
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As an immersion warrior and as I described in the rest of my post which I hope you did read, I don't find periodic electromagnetic pulses too much of a stretch, compared to the sudden lightning, red sky and glowing zombies. The bicycle simply doesn't have to get disabled, since it should be the slowest vehicle in the first place, not allowing you to safely escape the horde.

Since you are struggling to see the benefit, let me ask this with a simple example. For what reason is there a cheat mode checkbox in the first place? Why isn't it just integrated into gameplay? What is the reason for the existence of the checkbox? Why would anyone uncheck it and play? Let's take it further - why are there difficulty sliders for any game?

Do you understand that every game is a set of rules, which the player is thrown in, to play with its mechanics? For example when you play with the cheat mode box unchecked, or choose a certain difficulty, you want to play under certain rules. You don't want to be able to fly at will - not because of something nonsensical as the "you lack self control", but because you want to have this specific set of tools playing under those rules and feel free to do your best at playing the game. Even board games work like that damn it.

TLDR: "Player freedom" is not the game asking you if you want your health to be subtracted after you got hit by that zombie or if you would like to avoid threats at your convenience. Many of you seem to be mixing that. Also something being optional unavoidably comes with zero sense of urgency and becoming unimpactful.

 
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If there is a legitimate option for it (like some sort of anti zombiespray that costs massive ressources) I'm all up for it to avoid one hordenight.
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Sounds to me like the Shark Repellent Bat Spray -

The horde's not switched off, but they just can't find you anymore.

It's pretty handy when you want to skip a horde but don't want to turn it off completely.

The reasons can be manifold. In A16, for example, I saw a stream where the streamer didn't want to interrupt his work on the new base because of the horde. So during the horde he just worked in the mine while the zombies were partying on the surface. So he could work productively and then welcome the next horde to the new base.

 
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