Feedback on 2.5

Suxar said:
It's all about the infrastructure. Why should I even buy water if I can just turn on the tap and fill the kettle? Why bother with the extra steps to purchase?
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You're too focused on water. There are a lot of other kinds of drinks that use bottles, plus many other containers that can work for water once cleaned. A lot of people do drink bottled water even if it's cheaper to use the tap. As has been mentioned, tap water isn't always very safe to drink and can also have a bad taste even if it is safe. But you have soda/pop, juice, energy drinks, milk, etc. These can be not only in individual containers but in gallon jugs or other sizes. And even if you're not stocking up, many people drink these at home and toss them either in recycling or the trash and that is normally (at least around here) only picked up weekly, so you do have some sitting around until then.
 
I don't know why, but I get random CTDs and even full computer resets (at times) after playing for a while.
Other times I can keep going for an entire session without any issues.

Anyone of you techies can figure out what the issue could be? :unsure:
My guess is that there is something "unstable" in the experimental, since with other games I can play most times without any issues.
 
WarMongerian said:
Even the dinky little dehumidifier we had in the basement, would fill the pan several times a day, in the summer, and that was a gallon pan. Military "water condensers" in contrast, could supply a remote islands entire garrison with all the drinking water they needed.
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Sure, they're powered units though; look like any other air conditioner. Not tarps on barrels. Dew collection is a matter of catching floating droplets, already liquid water. Can be done passively with a steel mesh. Dehumidifying is removing gaseous water from an air mixture; for each gallon of condensed water it has to remove the same amount of heat as it would take to bring the same gallon from room temp to boiling point. It's not a huge problem at a powered location, but it's more economical to just run a distillery... :)

So, don't call it dew collector, add a power source requirement, change the mats and model. With those changes you could turn it into a blender just as well.. the in-game version is about as close to a dew collector as a blender :P

The water from a dehumidifier is also generally not drinkable - the radiator / collector gathers all the airborne crap you can imagine, and works as a decent growth medium for all kinds of nasty. Sure, you can clean it, but it's just as easy to clean the local lake.

Sapient6 said:
Well, yes and no. There are dew collectors that look very much like the ones in the game. Instead of tarps they use a metal laminate material (I think maybe aluminum? but I really have no idea), and they will collect dew all night long, no fog needed.
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Passive tech? I might need some sources. "No fog" means you're going to have to remove a ton of heat; that heat is going to stop condensing if not removed, so a passive unit's efficiency is going to be horrible. And the in-game version is a tarp shaped into a funnel, that's not particularly doing anything with dew :P

Sapient6 said:
Lots of really cool engineering going on there.
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That I agree with, I think Plasma Channel on youtube did some demos; electrically charging fog droplets and driving them towards the gathering element with high voltage. Large improvement with surprisingly simple tech.. but powered. :)
 
Jost Amman said:
I don't know why, but I get random CTDs and even full computer resets (at times) after playing for a while.
Other times I can keep going for an entire session without any issues.

Anyone of you techies can figure out what the issue could be? :unsure:
My guess is that there is something "unstable" in the experimental, since with other games I can play most times without any issues.
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Sounds like a memory leak or something artificially pushing your computer to its limits. Run something that measures your system while you play and see what specifically is the issue.
 
Again this is just an opinion.
I find it quite sad that it has come to this. I am pretty sure there will never, ever, no way in hell, ever be a solution to water that will please everyone. Not even a large majority.
What I find odd is that both sides have supporters that will call those with opposite opinions as idiots, whiners, babys, etc, even though their opinions are just as valid (if even just to them) as theirs is.
The only ones who get any real say in how it all will work is the devs. Can they be persuaded by public opinion? Maybe.
But tearing down others just because they suggest something you don't agree with is not very gamer like to me.
I though the point of a game was to relax you. This is causing everyone waaaaay too much stress.
 
Jost Amman said:
I don't know why, but I get random CTDs and even full computer resets (at times) after playing for a while.
Other times I can keep going for an entire session without any issues.

Anyone of you techies can figure out what the issue could be? :unsure:
My guess is that there is something "unstable" in the experimental, since with other games I can play most times without any issues.
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Your comp just cant handle the hidden bitcoin miner. Invest!
 
Gamida said:
But tearing down others just because they suggest something you don't agree with is not very gamer like to me.
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That's the first and foremost Gamer Move, though... do you even lift, bro ;)
It takes a bit of growing up to realize it's counterproductive; I'm an old fart and I have a long way to go still... and every year there's a new round of scrubs being spawned, requiring the same re-programming to fix their inherent flaws. Luckily, though, since dreaming of times where that stops happening is dreaming of extinction.
"Imagine there's no heaven..." .. well, that's one big glass ball.
 
theFlu said:
Passive tech? I might need some sources. "No fog" means you're going to have to remove a ton of heat; that heat is going to stop condensing if not removed, so a passive unit's efficiency is going to be horrible. And the in-game version is a tarp shaped into a funnel, that's not particularly doing anything with dew :P
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Passive. The material for the cone (small portable ones like I've played around with) or broad angled surfaces (if you want to collect more than a sip) is made of a material that quickly radiates heat on the top side, so at night the surface quickly loses heat and drops below ambient temp. Water condenses on it all night. And you are correct: something the size of dew collectors in game wouldn't collect much, and the plastic tarps they have would make them even worse--I'm not convinced they would drop below ambient temp.

I can't find anything on the portable thing I got to play with. But this wikipedia entry describes the principles involved (which I understand much better now that I've read about it and not just relying on old man memory): Air Well: Radiative
 
Sapient6 said:
But this wikipedia entry describes the principles involved
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Hmm.. the article talks of "condensing", but also "dew-nights" .. so it sounds like a "fog catcher", not exactly a "passive dehumidifier".

Taking the numbers from that (9000 litres over 550 square meters over a 100 days of "uptime"), turns into about 5 square meters for a liter a day. That's not bad, tbh - for an area with no puddle water in sight. If you look at the image, the collector ditch is covered in sand, pointing to "not so clean"; river water would be just as usable.

10 square meters for 2l of daily drinking water, 3x that to cover for a year (if the "downtime" isn't the monsoon season.. that thing would double nicely as a rain catcher :P ). It's not THAT far off from the in-game contraption, but it does require quite specific conditions IRL. Wouldn't produce anything where I live, for about 350 days per year ... :)
 
InfiniteWarrior said:
No, it doesn't. I understand it's a very difficult to balance mechanical problem, but I've considered the jar "issue" an aesthetic consideration from the moment I picked up on the controversy in the community and extensively tested playing with and without to ascertain its impact on the game world. I think it's a good thing they've reconsidered and repurposed and rebalanced harvesting water from natural sources. It's most definitely not all about the glue, but making the wilderness viable on its own, else it serves no purpose whatsoever. Not much to be done about magazines and such being practically nonexistent in the wilderness. Leveling up will still take forever and a day if you choose to play without visiting the towns and cities overmuch, but it also alleviates the necessity to head straight for those town and cities to accomplish anything. It opens up the "open world", iow.
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I still don't buy that this is an immersion thing. I really don't.

But to that end. If it was for immersion, then take a bunch of buckets down to your water source. fill them up, bring them back and magic in some murky water. 10 per bucket sounds fair. Easy work-around without asking TFPs to do a bunch of extra work, further delaying releases of new versions of the game. but beyond that, people in survival circumstances would not waste time filling a bunch of jars with water, they would fill up a big container that they can carry. Filling jars at your water source should break immersion even more.
 
There is frequent precipitation in every biome so regardless of its name, I can imagine it is catching falling water in addition to any dew regardless of what the code says. Put that together with the same exact phenomenon that causes crops to grow in an accelerated manner and they work fine for me.

I don’t want a realistically simulated dew collector any more than I want a simulated farm. If you want it to edge towards the more realistic side then only ever build one at your base and never fit it with the tarp or the condenser. Then you’ll have something that produces the minimal amount of water possible in the slowest time possible. It will still be faster than a real dew collector but at least you’ll be having as much fun as you can.
 
Roland said:
There is frequent precipitation in every biome so regardless of its name, I can imagine it is catching falling water in addition to any dew regardless of what the code says. Put that together with the same exact phenomenon that causes crops to grow in an accelerated manner and they work fine for me.

I don’t want a realistically simulated dew collector any more than I want a simulated farm. If you want it to edge towards the more realistic side then only ever build one at your base and never fit it with the tarp or the condenser. Then you’ll have something that produces the minimal amount of water possible in the slowest time possible. It will still be faster than a real dew collector but at least you’ll be having as much fun as you can.
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I just assume it fills up so quickly do to how often it rains lmao
 
theFlu said:
Well, it is. Don't really care if you buy it. It is.
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how is it immersive to carry a bunch of jars down to a water source? It isn't, and it can't be. That would break immersion. a person would take a bucket to collect water, not a bunch of fragile glass jars just banging around in their backpack. How is it immersive to fill up 125 bottles of murky water simultaneously? it isn't and it can't be. It isn't any more or less immersive than using the creation menu to 'trade' buckets of water for quantities of murky water.
 
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