WarMongerian
Scavenger
So they can no longer be made by hand?!?! This just keeps getting better and better (scarcasm)
Feedback on 2.5
- Thread starter for4gerz
- Start date
WarMongerian
Scavenger
Right. Thanks for the info. I hope that if TFP are willing to do all this work, they take my suggestion, and split the "Dew collectors" into two new craftables, the Rain Catcher and the Water Condenser.
I just don't want to have my ability to craft, early game, a secure, reliable source of water impacted by the folks that wanted empty bottles back in the game.
ALEXZANDER
Scavenger
Good one
Interesting question. I know very few people who buy water or soda to stock up; most buy them to drink right away. Most people I know drink tea or coffee using tap water. When robbing a house, I'm more likely to find pickled cucumbers and tomatoes than water.
WarMongerian
Scavenger
I have always been fine with the dew collectors, knowing that they were made to represent two completely different systems for generating water, but as that abstracted system was working, I didn't want to waste folks time complaining about it.
That being said, if TFP staff is willing to spend development time on this, it would be great to see the addition of the water condenser.
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WarMongerian
Scavenger
I currently have the 6 packs of water I got when the covid scare first started up, plus two more packs I got delivered this week. Disabled folks, that have mobility issues, are far more likely to stock up, because they cannot just go running off to the store anytime they want.
I hate to say this, but I could see going to the home I knew were the homes of the local disabled, because they do horde stuff.
jeffrezyah
Refugee
i'll just take the opportunity to add my feedback to this thread instead of opening a new one.
Played to day 16 so far, 2 player game, mostly vanilla settings other than i set jar refund to 50% (roland, you're right, 100% would be too much
)
not a survivor story, but things i've noticed, since it's experimental.
some recipes give you jars back even tho they dont use jars in the first place (grilled meat, grilled corn, baked potato for example) i think this is a bug?
the recipes that include honey should ramp up the infection heal rate a bit. otherwise it feels like i've just crafted a unnecessary high food giving healing item or "wasted" a honey (at least before you get the apiary). maybe 6% for tea, 7% for sham, 8% for brisket?
i was able to buy a crucible on day 10 i think. since we're 2 players and we got the dukes i thought why not, lets try the impact on water survival and oh boy. all the jars immediately
even tho 50% return feels nice (maybe 40 is better idk. could see myself going down further in future playthroughs - rarity is fun) the ability to craft them so early broke the whole thing and i think even with 0% it would still be a bit too good. i am fully aware that this was my decision (50% refund and buying the crucible) but i still think that you should not be able to buy it that early. maybe rise the price for it or make it so it doesn't show up that early now that it also unlocks jars?
water survival before the crucible was fine really. with 2 players and 50% return, we didn't really accumulate much. after a cuple days we could afford to take some drinks with us while we do quests (2 red tea each) so that was nice and felt like an improvement. could also be because some of the grilled corn, baked potato we ate gave us additional (undeserved) jars. so when i don't count them the situation would be as i'd wish for. few jars, manage them.
we had to decide how much glue we wanted to make and how much of the jars we wanted to keep for water/food production.
really like that the water stacks to 10 only
smell system is amazing. i read some complaints that the non-meat meals add smell as well but i think thats totally fine - no advantages for the vegetarians
loved that i had to think about when i ate and if it's worth to kill the chicken when running back home, nearly overloaded from looting.
that's it form me so far hope you all enjoy it as much as i do
EDIT: oh and we even bought all the empty jars from the trader every time he restocked. was still good with 50% return until crucible.
Played to day 16 so far, 2 player game, mostly vanilla settings other than i set jar refund to 50% (roland, you're right, 100% would be too much
)not a survivor story, but things i've noticed, since it's experimental.
some recipes give you jars back even tho they dont use jars in the first place (grilled meat, grilled corn, baked potato for example) i think this is a bug?
the recipes that include honey should ramp up the infection heal rate a bit. otherwise it feels like i've just crafted a unnecessary high food giving healing item or "wasted" a honey (at least before you get the apiary). maybe 6% for tea, 7% for sham, 8% for brisket?
i was able to buy a crucible on day 10 i think. since we're 2 players and we got the dukes i thought why not, lets try the impact on water survival and oh boy. all the jars immediately
even tho 50% return feels nice (maybe 40 is better idk. could see myself going down further in future playthroughs - rarity is fun) the ability to craft them so early broke the whole thing and i think even with 0% it would still be a bit too good. i am fully aware that this was my decision (50% refund and buying the crucible) but i still think that you should not be able to buy it that early. maybe rise the price for it or make it so it doesn't show up that early now that it also unlocks jars?water survival before the crucible was fine really. with 2 players and 50% return, we didn't really accumulate much. after a cuple days we could afford to take some drinks with us while we do quests (2 red tea each) so that was nice and felt like an improvement. could also be because some of the grilled corn, baked potato we ate gave us additional (undeserved) jars. so when i don't count them the situation would be as i'd wish for. few jars, manage them.
we had to decide how much glue we wanted to make and how much of the jars we wanted to keep for water/food production.
really like that the water stacks to 10 only
smell system is amazing. i read some complaints that the non-meat meals add smell as well but i think thats totally fine - no advantages for the vegetarians
loved that i had to think about when i ate and if it's worth to kill the chicken when running back home, nearly overloaded from looting.that's it form me so far
hope you all enjoy it as much as i doEDIT: oh and we even bought all the empty jars from the trader every time he restocked. was still good with 50% return until crucible.
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It's all about the infrastructure. Why should I even buy water if I can just turn on the tap and fill the kettle? Why bother with the extra steps to purchase?
WarMongerian
Scavenger
Have you never lived in a place, where you don't want to drink the tap/well water? If not, that explains it.
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I suggest not telling others what to do or not to do. If you don't like what I write, that's your problem.
There aren't many such places. They're either places where significant environmental changes have occurred, like the coast of the Aral Sea, or third-world countries. In developed countries this is rare.
WarMongerian
Scavenger
Well, if we are really going down this road...
Take the problem with the water in Flint, Michigan.
Or take the problem with the water at Camp Lejeune.
It doesn't even have to be water that will kill you, that people don't want to drink it, and it doesn't just happen in third world countries.
Here:
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Jost Amman
Hunter
I'd also add that the so called "drinkable water" is not often healthy water...
InfiniteWarrior
Survivor
No, it doesn't. I understand it's a very difficult to balance mechanical problem, but I've considered the jar "issue" an aesthetic consideration from the moment I picked up on the controversy in the community and extensively tested playing with and without to ascertain its impact on the game world. I think it's a good thing they've reconsidered and repurposed and rebalanced harvesting water from natural sources. It's most definitely not all about the glue, but making the wilderness viable on its own, else it serves no purpose whatsoever. Not much to be done about magazines and such being practically nonexistent in the wilderness. Leveling up will still take forever and a day if you choose to play without visiting the towns and cities overmuch, but it also alleviates the necessity to head straight for those town and cities to accomplish anything. It opens up the "open world", iow.
stallionsden
Tester
I will disagree. The game is now a water simulator no need to struggle or try to survive or take risks to keep hydrated.
But the stupid things are back and apparently they make a survival game lol.
Get the mod on nexus that adds jars to dew collectors problem solved for you jar lovers
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Old Crow
Hunter
Or, you could just not use them instead of being a ■■■■■■■■.
InfiniteWarrior
Survivor
Sounds like a good compromise. I've always thought seeing the crucible in trader inventory on day one was just pure meanness on TFP's part.
Could be locked to a mid-game player level or something. If-then.
Kyoji
Survivor
I do not think simulation immersion is important, but rather whether something fits within the game. Jars or no jars works because we recognize it's a game and it's not like Green Hell where things are more realistic, but one that has RPG mechanics. Now if we were to add unicorns into the game then immersion breaks because you can't really grasp why they are in the game as they are out of place and do not fit.
The complaining about jars was fine as that was something people wanted and I respect that, but then it had to do with jar return and now the Dew Collector. The jar return being a toggle was fine and a good compromise. That being said I do not want standard game settings based around optional support so if people want 100% return on jars then that is fine but don't complain about Dew Collectors as the immersion makes sense if you play with standard game values.
Do not waste time on small things when we are all waiting for bandits. Jars was the major thing and them returning was a minor fix. Changing dew collectors for that subset of players who want jar return off when others want it at 0% would simply break the game for those wanting it at 0% which is the standard game value.
The complaining about jars was fine as that was something people wanted and I respect that, but then it had to do with jar return and now the Dew Collector. The jar return being a toggle was fine and a good compromise. That being said I do not want standard game settings based around optional support so if people want 100% return on jars then that is fine but don't complain about Dew Collectors as the immersion makes sense if you play with standard game values.
Do not waste time on small things when we are all waiting for bandits. Jars was the major thing and them returning was a minor fix. Changing dew collectors for that subset of players who want jar return off when others want it at 0% would simply break the game for those wanting it at 0% which is the standard game value.
Mister Forgash
Scavenger
As I've seen discussed, I'm in the camp of thought that it was never -really- about the jars, it was about that innate instinct of 'how do I get water? -- I go to a body of water and collect it'. The container you keep it in would be as hypothetical as the one you use for gas, uniform with world logic. Obtaining it would be easy, processing it would be slow, and the materials to 'fuel' it would be relatively common wilderness finds- coal, flowers, sand, etc, shifting the challenge from getting water, to keeping a steady supply of suitable drinking water crafting.. But that's not how things went and to wish for that will detract from completing the game.
I fear to wish for more changes would be a monkey's paw wish that wastes another half a year and still doesn't feel satisfying when implemented.
Just get the bandits done and the event system going
I fear to wish for more changes would be a monkey's paw wish that wastes another half a year and still doesn't feel satisfying when implemented.
Just get the bandits done and the event system going
Sapient6
Scavenger
Well, yes and no. There are dew collectors that look very much like the ones in the game. Instead of tarps they use a metal laminate material (I think maybe aluminum? but I really have no idea), and they will collect dew all night long, no fog needed. This type of dew collector does not work well in hot arid environments, in fact too much heat will pretty much destroy the collection material. Set it up in the desert and watch it die before the first night rolls around. Set it up in the arctic and wonder why you even bothered.
I mean, you bothered because trying to melt snow in a pan over a heat source takes a ridiculously long time. It's a fun experiment to go over with the kids and see if they can work out why the snow will sit in a sizzling hot pan and barely melt at all, and how to solve that problem. (solution, hilariously, is to add water). Ok. Barely related tangent. Sorry.
There are dew collectors for use in deserts, but yeah, those look incredibly different and to be effective must be extremely large. Lots of really cool engineering going on there.
Rain not being tracked in unloaded chunks is the simplest part of that whole bit to solve. Rain frequency is, I assume, a known quantity to the devs. Just abstract the amount of rainfall during the unloaded period and you're done. But I think that would lead any experienced developer to the current solution: none of any of that is worth the overhead and development time, and can be simplified by abstracting the entire process... add in the requirement that this water collection device work in all biomes and BOOM you're right where the current implementation landed.