PC Feedback for The Fun Pimps on Alpha 17

Very well said Roland. Thanks for being the voice of reason and keeping things real. In the end it boils down to the vision the Pimps have for their game. It's still alpha and were just along for the ride.

Now I'll say what I think.

7 days to die was entirely unique and not one single game out there could even begin to touch what it offered. Now they've moved in a direction to make it like other games instead of keeping what they'd already built. In time this may be awesome with a lot of fine tuning but in the meantime we're all left with a sour taste in our mouth because copying what another unique game had, did nothing but take away from what 7 days to die ALLREADY had.

 
Very well said Roland. Thanks for being the voice of reason and keeping things real.
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Thanks but I’ll point out that FishStyck is also being a voice of reason for a different perspective and I appreciate most everyone remaining civil in this thread. We may not see eye to eye but we all would like to see a fun game get made in the end.

 
So it’s just random chance, at 5-120 mill per dice roll. :)
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Not really. But if the secret sauce of game design were so easy to find, big publishers would just buy successful developers and hand over money to them and voila, neverending success.

This is exactly what EA has been doing from time to time. They didn't always interfere with their developers. A well-known example was Lord British aka Richard Garriot. It didn't end well.

 
Not really. But if the secret sauce of game design were so easy to find, big publishers would just buy successful developers and hand over money to them and voila, neverending success.
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It's definitely not easy, and Roland is on point when arguing the subjective nature of one's experience. Having said that, there are patterns in human behavior and interests. Different games leverage different patterns as few (if any) patterns are universal. Mindcraft, imo, for example, exposed a new pattern and it's success has spawned a set of new games exploring the boundaries of that pattern. I consider 7d2d one of those games, however, it seems as though that may not be the vision of TFP. We'll see.

This is exactly what EA has been doing from time to time. They didn't always interfere with their developers. A well-known example was Lord British aka Richard Garriot. It didn't end well.
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Yeah, some times interference is warranted :)

 
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I couldn't agree more with OP's sentiments. They clearly don't want you to even bother with crafting until you've played 60-plus levels of 7 Days to Hunt Zombies. Yeah - the game is now about US hunting THEM. The sheer amount of immersion and variety that has been yanked since a16 is unbelievable.
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Yea I keep trying to play, after running PVE servers for a few years. Everything in this game has been made so grindy in the beginning. Normally, starting fresh was fun. But now, basic actions are so nerfed until you put skill points into that category that its absolutely miserable. I hate having to rest after jumping twice. I hate having to rest after hitting a rock 4 times. I hate that I cant craft anything. I hate that I cant run through a field picking flowers and now have to punch each one. I hate that the nail gun is super slow. Everything they added in terms of actions and skills made the beginning game incredibly frustrating. Again, I used to love starting fresh, but that was when baseline granted a player an acceptable level of competency. Now, in order to walk 12 steps you need to add skill points into stamina, otherwise you were like a person with a 60 yeark smoking pack history and emphysema. The pimps should make the baseline how it was in a16, and then let us become stronger. NOT start us out as crippled humans and then force us to level to gain basic human motor skills.

- - - Updated - - -

It takes a long time for players to dig out those pits all the way around a base depending on its size, so to say there was no effort involved is inane, it used to take me an entire weekend to dig out my pits and they didn't even go to bedrock.

also not everything he suggested was a bug or an exploit, but there were some clever use of game mechanics as well.
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I agree, especially with the nerfs to stamina in the beginning, prior to putting tons of skill points into separate melee, block dmg, and stamina categories. Just let us level stamina passively.

 
Broken RWG + stuttering = lost interest

I've put a couple thousand hours into this game, so I guess you could say I've gotten my money's worth. But my wife and I play exclusively on MP servers and we lost interest a couple weeks ago and really have no desire to go back right now. The RWG is bad, we know. The frequent mini lock-ups are a real hassle. Yeah, it's alpha...but...

The MP server we played most had to shut down for lack of players as they waned away. Another loses players real fast after. The fun seems gone a LOT earlier than before on a new wipe.

I'm not here to gripe, just to give my varying mileage as input. TFP has put a lot into this alpha, but it seems to have taken a step back.

 
Hear hear, OP.

Thank you for this thread. I did play a little yesterday and today (my first time with A17) and it was frustrating but I tried to go with it. The texture overhaul is rather nice, the lag is not (and I have a powerful machine).

Anyway, this thread makes it clear to me that it is too soon to return.

Cheers.

 
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A17 looks like kind of short demo version with half cuted content comparing to A16. Also almost infinite replayability in earlier versions, no more exist, after played once I have feeling like game finished, and "Game Over" titles are played, so no more reason start another playthrough

 
left the game for a year and came back about a week or two now.

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Skill

The skills is kinda let down. I don't know which alpha this was (15 or 16) but having both xp in each skill and spending point to buy it was nice.

I feel like TFP should make it if you use items weapons or tools, it increase the efficiency (old skill system) like reload speed, damage, block damage. And skill point for things like + X% to pop zombie head, increase crop harvest, increase resource gain.

it shouldn't be like I wack a bunches of zombies and now I'm a mechanic.

IMO, the tech tree should be reverse back to books, same skills we have now, but read books to unlock it.

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Loot

The loot from zombies is gone, so now there less of an incense to even bother fighting Zs, it get replace with xp instead. So instead of survival game, it an RPG game.

The yellow loot bag was kinda rubbish, mediocre loots or downright garbage most of the time. And it disappear way too fast, by the time you finish clearing a horde, it gone. All those ammo and resource goes into defeating a horde gone for no reason. (I edit the xml for it to last to morning, I shouldn't even need to do this)

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AI

Zombies chew through the base and you have to exploit their AI to survive. Older alpha base design was like, you can fight one end, quick repair it, go to other side and kills Zs on other side. You know, zombies survival. Now I search up base design, it all freaking maze or some kind of path finding exploit base. If you build older alpha design, the zombies just chew through your base because it doing so much godam damage, wtf. Not to mention, if it falls down like 20 blocks, it magically extend it arm back up and wack that block. So even more AI exploiting to get around this. And how the hell does zombies know it faster to go one direction rather hit certain block.

IMO, reverse it back to the old zombies AI or something similar to it (it should still keep the taking fall damage and go rampant at nearby block, that very zombie like) and if it can't reach you after a while, it'll try to find your building support and have a go at it.

And last I heard (over a year ago) wasn't we suppose to get an AI that look for your trail? I know zombies can jump like 2-3 block now, this shouldn't be an issue.

Give the current zombie AI to bandit. That make way more sense

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POI and city zombies

POI have way too much Zs some times.

Hidden in wall and roof zombies are stupid too. 1 or 2 is fine, an army of feral in a small POI is just stupid. If you want a feral army trap, make a large shopping mall POI that as contain 3-4 current POI inside it and put them in there. not every POI need to be some kind of dungeon.

Turning most of the zombies into sleeper made the game super boring. Sneak sneak sneak, crossbow, sneak sneak crossbow

I miss the old alpha where there were fair amount of zombie roaming the city.

IMO, when you enter an POI, it spawn zombies, but put it on a "patrol pattern" and wondering inside the POI. When you fight the zombies, if it growls, it call nearby Zs to investigate (doesn't target you, but just go to the general area). POI zombies take longer to despawn (leave POI far enough or wait about 5 mins), add dead corpses in POI, now this is where the sleeper zombies/traps shines. You don't know whether the zombies is dead or sleeping.

and bring back wondering horde in the city.

Also, what with the godamn bleeding, it happen way too often.

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Stamina, health, death and food

if it ain't broken, don't fix it. They change the micromanagement from clothes to food now.

I don't like walk 5 steps and be remind to take a sip of water or being hungry.

All the drink been dumb down to essentially coloured water. And beer you essentially drunk right after the first drink, wtf, I'm a lightweight and I don't get double vision after a single sip.

add in the water filter mod, there no reason to boil water, let alone to make any other drink.

What wrong with the old system?

if you let your food and water drop to 0, you slowly dying.

Speaking of dying.

Old system reward you for being healthy (eating food and staying alive) and punish you if you die by taking away health and stamina. Forcing you to play cautiously to rebuild it.

New system is punish you for not eating and drinking every other 5 seconds. And dying punish you by brain dead and forget your skill for half an hour, forcing you to ♥♥♥♥ around for half an hour.

IMO, if you want to keep the new system. Wait till food and water at 50% before starting to penalize the player. Reduce stamina consumption across the board (why the hell aiming down sight consume stamina?). Bring back the old drink, or have food give similar effects of old drink.

bring back the old wellness system and get rid of the skill point for stamina and health.

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Item quality

beside durability, there no real reason to get better quality item. You also lost that feeling of awe when you found better loot.

Old system where rarer item dealt more damage/block damage give it an incense to find better quality item.

TFP already got rid of combining item repair, don't need to remove rare item bonus as well.

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performance

oh boy. The last time I play 7D2D, I have like 120~80 fps on max setting (except texture, on half),1920x1080 with normal gameplay, 60 if my base was clutter and fill with lights turn on(large room with 3 lights, 5 levels of this).

now I'm have to play on 1600x900 with everything on low (texture still half) to get 60 fps, and it get dip down to 40~30 at times. And Im in the middle of butt f nowhere, only my crappy base and it tank my fps like that. Also, everything is blurry because I have to turn down the graphic to keep the 60fps, and I have a powerful PC.

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Overall

The game feel like everything been dumb down, or take a step back. The game definately feeling less and less of zombie survival sandbox and more of zombie RPG/tower defend.

 
Still liking 17.0 in both SP and MP and I'm liking the potential changes coming for a18. If the new RWG looks as good as the pics that have been posted, then exploration is going to be a real treat. Level gates seem to be going away and the attributes/perks are going to get some restructuring to allow for focus on particular play styles.

 
I’m done with A17. I’ve made my criticisms clear in a number of threads. Hopefully the devs have listened.

I’ll evaluate A18 when it comes out. My impression is that the devs like the changes I hate, so I may be done with 7 days (or perhaps playing mods).

 
Everyone has their threshold for punishment. A moment when they say "enough, im not supporting this anymore". It is a slow build-up for those that are engaged in something they used to like. Mine was a two-pronged event, first at A15, when i decided to longer mod an Alpha game that changes so much with every update, and for the worst. You know when someone tries to save a cake by adding new layers, but each new layer, as good as they taste individually just messes up the entire cake more? This is 7 Days to Die.

The second was when René Kuhn, the most dedicated modder in the game, died in an accident. The developers didnt care. They couldnt. They after all need more ways to sell their game. Its okay. Ill just quit modding.

But then came A17 and everyone said it was bottom-level 7DTD. I couldnt believe it so i tested it myself for a month or so. The game is now completely devoid of its original character. There are just so many problems that rotted out to this version it stank even new cool mechanics, like new vehicles. The LBD is gone, because it actually was a cool thing and we cant have cool things. With standard settings zombies destroy bases effortlessly. I cant now find parts, just whole guns. The awesome quality level system for items is gone for a meager 1-6 system, because instead of hiring a mathematician to make loot drops more interesting they instead scrapped the whole idea because they couldnt bang their heads enough.

And for all gun aficcionados out there, all they got was a mod system that is alright, but makes zero sense when you need a schematic that is destroyed when you craft one. And im not even mentioning how farming is useless and they broke completely what was once the best sustaining water/food system several alphas ago.

So yeah, patience has its limits. And even the most patient of people are leaving because the devs want to be Hideo Kojima and do the opposite of what their players want, but can't separate the whiners from the good advice. Way to go, pimps. You sure slap and put those wenches of yours giving you money, thats how its done.

 
Oh great! someone has come to the forum to complain about the game via questions, but says they're not questions but a discussion.

I'm enjoying A17.X for what it is; one of many iterations of the game in which the developers constantly take feedback (I think too much), adapt, mold, grow, expand, tweak, and constantly discuss and communicate with the players. There are things I wish they hadn't taken out, things I like, and things which I see are evolving.

And I'm still enjoying the game for what it is

And I will enjoy the game for what it will be

Just move on to another game already if all you've got is whinging about it.

 
cough... stamina changes... cough cough... death penalty.... cough...
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There is still stamina management and people still complain about the stamina so definitely not a backtrack--simply a retuning of severity which (of course) others feel was unwarranted.

There is still the near death penalty and people still complain about it and mod it out completely so definitely not a backtrack. It was lessened and made less harsh but it is still there in a form that people still hate so there you go.

 
VIC and RAZZ.... I gotta ask...

What other sandbox games are better then this alpha? Besides earlier builds of the game or project zomboid, go on, name em! I wanna play em!

 
Everyone has their threshold for punishment. A moment when they say "enough, im not supporting this anymore". It is a slow build-up for those that are engaged in something they used to like. Mine was a two-pronged event, first at A15, when i decided to longer mod an Alpha game that changes so much with every update, and for the worst. You know when someone tries to save a cake by adding new layers, but each new layer, as good as they taste individually just messes up the entire cake more? This is 7 Days to Die.
The second was when René Kuhn, the most dedicated modder in the game, died in an accident. The developers didnt care. They couldnt. They after all need more ways to sell their game. Its okay. Ill just quit modding.

But then came A17 and everyone said it was bottom-level 7DTD. I couldnt believe it so i tested it myself for a month or so. The game is now completely devoid of its original character. There are just so many problems that rotted out to this version it stank even new cool mechanics, like new vehicles. The LBD is gone, because it actually was a cool thing and we cant have cool things. With standard settings zombies destroy bases effortlessly. I cant now find parts, just whole guns. The awesome quality level system for items is gone for a meager 1-6 system, because instead of hiring a mathematician to make loot drops more interesting they instead scrapped the whole idea because they couldnt bang their heads enough.

And for all gun aficcionados out there, all they got was a mod system that is alright, but makes zero sense when you need a schematic that is destroyed when you craft one. And im not even mentioning how farming is useless and they broke completely what was once the best sustaining water/food system several alphas ago.

So yeah, patience has its limits. And even the most patient of people are leaving because the devs want to be Hideo Kojima and do the opposite of what their players want, but can't separate the whiners from the good advice. Way to go, pimps. You sure slap and put those wenches of yours giving you money, thats how its done.
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Well I typed and deleted about five responses to this steaming pile of a post. That is the only indication I'll give of what I originally was going to type. Instead I will encourage everyone to please load up 7 Days to Die and click on the credits.

René "Pacco" Kuhn was acknowledged by the developers and they did care about him and his team of modders who created Starvation. Everyone has their own opinion about A17 and the general direction the game has been heading since about A11 and that is all it is...opinion. To try and use Pacco's passing as a club to bully the developers is a new low especially since it is unfair and unwarranted.

 
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