Laz Man
Fun Pimps Staff
No reason to be sad, there is plenty of more non questable POIs coming. As a matter of fact, the last 2 major updates had mostly non questable POIs.
Exploration For The Sake of Exploration
- Thread starter Lax
- Start date
No reason to be sad, there is plenty of more non questable POIs coming. As a matter of fact, the last 2 major updates had mostly non questable POIs.
Kyoji
Survivor
I hope the non-questable POIs are proper POIs and not buildings that have been blasted to the stone age. The issue with T0 remnant POIs is that there is no valuable loot in them. Make proper T0-5 POIs that are more open and don't have a quest but offer proper loot and zombies or bandits or at least make POIs less linear.
One of the issues with the current game is linear progression with questing. There isn't much of a reward for exploring. We need POIs that don't have a quest in them that offer enough rewards to warrant going to them outside of just doing quests.
With quests you get extra dukes, extra loot, free items (bicycle), etc all for the same amount of time you would do a non-questable POI. Even if we don't get an answer right away I hope bandits or something else can make exploration more rewarding.
I feel like you guys understand people don't like quests but the solution isn't addressing why people don't like questing all the time.
InfiniteWarrior
Survivor
As Kyoji indicates, adding more and more POIs -- "non-questable" and otherwise -- is not going resolve the issue. All the POIs are technically "non-questable" if you choose for them to be, but in addition to there being nothing of interest in what you're calling "non-questable" POIs, there's nothing to direct you to them other than those boring(?), neverending odd jobs. IOW, your own curiosity will lead you nowhere for nothing for the most part.
Obviously, RPGs have a number of POIs and interesting monuments that can be seen from just about anywhere and/or when you're within a reasonable vacinity of them -- Dinky the Dinosaur, the New Vegas skyline, the Shrine of Azura, High Hrothgar, etc. And, of course, monuments and so forth galore.
7DTD is not a RPG (in my book), so the landmarks, so to speak, will likely consist primarily of the major NPC's compounds and...that's about it. Stuff like Dishong Tower -- as special as they're supposed to be -- are just more buildings in cities full of buildings.
This is solvable and, as the saying goes, two or more heads are better than one. A little brainstorming could go a long way here.
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Kyoji
Survivor
Reminds me of people's frustrations with Elden Ring. A lot of cool places to get to but all you get is a random non-descript item for your troubles.
InfiniteWarrior
Survivor
Yeah. I mentioned that specifically. Probably not a good way to go.
Edit: Some of those places held special weapons, incantations and sorceries. (The identical ruins and forts.) So, maybe the upcoming "legendary" system can help alleviate the implacable emptiness somewhat, too.
Second edit: Elden Ring, of course, had an inordinate amount of "special" weapons and armor sets, etc. -- an incredible variety -- that 7DTD doesn't and likely can't have as an indie effort on a limited budget of both time and money. So, it would be helpful, as Kyoji and others have suggested, if loot weren't so predicatable. Once upon a time, you might run across a nice surprise like a low-tiered weapon or tool that is nonetheless better than what you've got and that might actually change your plans for a playthrough. Less predictable loot was a thing as recently as A21. Shouldn't be much of a problem to make loot interesting again.
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theFlu
Hunter
The game is probably pretty good for a new player, for quite a few playthroughs. Somehow the exploration just doesn't seem to pay off in the long run for veterans..
And you need to teach her to just craft a box, dump the randomness there and mark it on your shared map... makes your life easier
Grandpa Minion
Scavenger
gl doing that on a pvp serverAnd you need to teach her to just craft a box, dump the randomness there and mark it on your shared map... makes your life easier
theFlu
Hunter
Sending the wifey solo to loot that POI over yonder is going to go swimmingly, right?gl doing that on a pvp server
Lax
Survivor
But then she wouldn't be able to "pester" him anymore. Where's the fun in that?And you need to teach her to just craft a box, dump the randomness there and mark it on your shared map... makes your life easier
InfiniteWarrior
Survivor
I don't know that it is pretty good for a new player unless possibly just using it as backdrop for socialization in the case of multiplayer. I can't speak for anyone else, but I got pretty bored, pretty fast when I first picked it back up. In fact, I stopped playing and started alpha testing almost immediately. The only things that held my attention were those exceptional POIs and randomizing the maps until I'd exhausted pretty much every possible permutation of them. Aware of the rift in the community right off the bat, I then started testing to try and ascertain why so many people did "want jars back" and the like to see how differently it played with and without former systems. I actually had to push myself to level up high enough to get into the more interesting toys (vehicles, etc.).The game is probably pretty good for a new player, for quite a few playthroughs. Somehow the exploration just doesn't seem to pay off in the long run for veterans..
And you need to teach her to just craft a box, dump the randomness there and mark it on your shared map... makes your life easier
Probably just an inclination on my part. I don't play survival games much because I find the vast majority of them exceptionally repetitive, grindy and boring. (Subnautica is an exception.) Probably why all the "RPG elements" that have been added since its inception, but I personally find those boring as well because the so-called "questing" (that isn't) is just more randomized, computerized bs "stuff to do".
I'm obviously not among the audience for a game like this, but could nonetheless see enormous potential in it regardless until...1.0. It had an "old school" charm to it that I really liked and knew many of my gaming friends would like, but even that was getting diffused with the introduction of fantasy elements like mummies and yetis, which fortunately, I think, are being changed.
Lax
Survivor
Now there's a game that does exploration right!
theFlu
Hunter
That's kinda what I meant with "quite a few" playthroughs.. good for around 5 30 hour games; but not much more. Just tried to stick to the positive for once
InfiniteWarrior
Survivor
There's nothing to hold your interest for much longer in solo play unless perhaps building ever more elaborate bases is your thing as it appears to be for most streamers and YouTubers, but I keep reminding myself it's actually designed for multiplayer play and try to concentrate on ways to make it more interesting overall.That's kinda what I meant with "quite a few" playthroughs.. good for around 5 30 hour games; but not much more. Just tried to stick to the positive for once
All that's been said thus far about making loot interesting again will no doubt bring out the "crafting is neglible compared to looting" crowd. This is why I say all the systems should be able to stand on their own so no one is stuck doing stuff they hate doing due to the fact that they're not. Trader odd jobs and rewards; crafting; looting have to be balanced against one another, but I find it strange that you have to interact with all of them to a certain degree, e.g. if you really want those dew collector mods. They can't be crafted, so you can take a chance of (probably) never finding them in the wild, the chance is so exceptionally low, or buy them. There's no in between.
Much of the balancing, I gather, is predicated on min-maxers saying this or that has to be nerfed. "It's overpowered," they say. Well...not really. If said min-maxer can't exercise a little discipline, that's not the game's fault.
theFlu
Hunter
I see it a little different; all a min-maxer can do is reveal an imbalance in the game. It is up to the dev then if they choose to address that or not.
I also can't think of many a thing that has been changed due to some min/max; the recent 100% damage reduction was one, but I don't think anyone would seriously argue for keeping That in game, whether anyone actually used it or not.
InfiniteWarrior
Survivor
I can. Trader rewards were nerfed to nothing when a min-maxer said they were too powerful for but one example. So I can't imagine those who do follow the so-called "questing" route almost exclusively have much incentive to do so when the "reward" is a few bullets or corns on the cob or baked potatoes and magazines found just as quickly simply by looting. Their only advantage is that they're paid jobs. You also get a few Dukes for doing them. Otherwise, why bother?
theFlu
Hunter
Highly depends on the setting; an active server, even with the supported 8 player max, will quickly run out of POIs to just loot. So everyone's running quests just to have _something_ to do. So they shouldn't really be too powerful in themselves, they're worth a full POI already.
And the nerf to me looked like more like a hamfisted attempt at quelling the complaints about "the quest loop is too powerful"; which is not really addressed even if quest rewards are neutered entirely (and not even then for the reset needs).
- the highest form of challenge in the game, a T6 Infestation, is only available by doing .. 50 quests. Anyone wanting to do those, will be spamming quests.
- anyone wanting to gather anything significant will be looting POIs.. quests are just looting POIs, twice, or with a reset.
The quest loop is too powerful, because there's really nothing else to do in the game (after the initial drive for exploration has been sated). And especially nothing else Required to do by the game. They tried fixing that the easy way, by nerfing the rewards; but it's doomed to fail without alternatives.