PC Devs, is this balancing possible or are we set on direction?

Adding my 2cents here (and that's all it really is), I still think Zombie XP (and Bandits even more so when we get them), ought to be the stand out XP gainer.
Other activities should award XP, definitely, but not nearly so much as countering the games primary threat.
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Then you are talking about balance, and you can't deny that the game is currently heavily weighted towards xp grinding on zeds. TFP want it this way or they wouldnt have instituded this in the first place.

 
Around level 120 now, melee and intelligence trees almost maxed and I'm working on getting perception up so guns are at least semi-useful compared to heavy weapons
I have 0 issues with leveling being tied to zombies because it means leveling requires risk taking. If I can work out a safe place (which you will always be able to do) then I can endlessly level up risk free. At high level I can all but walk through wandering hordes. Unless I really screw up I'm not ever in a fraction the risk I was in at levels 1-100. If I can go from 1-100 with almost no risk save the ones I want to take then the risk is 100% irrelevant and we're back to the game just being about the BM.

There's some largely different opinions about what is and is not fun. That's fine but it means in the end we're only going to have a solution everyone likes when you've got a difficulty modifier similar to the ARK/Conan Exiles games. You tweak XP gain for different things to your liking.
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On that note, honest question. I have 0 issue with your playstyle, as I've stated to not nerf the Zed XP. This leads me to ask you, are you against other playstyles being able to level on par with you? If yes, why?

I've noticed throughout a few threads that generally I'm seeing:

1) Enforcer role loves new A17e, and is against balancing XP for other roles because ???

2) Builder/miner/farmer roles don't want to nerf Zed XP, just want the same XP opportunity for doing their community role and are undecided on how they feel about A17e or dislike it all together.

Now of course this is just my observation and is not backed by polling or statistics and is based on this forum, streamers, twitter, ect....

 
Adding my 2cents here (and that's all it really is), I still think Zombie XP (and Bandits even more so when we get them), ought to be the stand out XP gainer.
Other activities should award XP, definitely, but not nearly so much as countering the games primary threat.
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I'd agree to that if Zombies getting damaged/killed by traps etc. would also give XP. This would boost XP for those who prefer to build, yet its still tied to kill Zombies. The question would be how to distribute the XP if some people share a base, but basically I'd think it would work fine that everybody gets a bit of XP for damage done / Zombie killed by a trap they built, and a bit of that XP shared over the currently implemented party mechanics. This probably would even out a bit the level gap I noticed between those who actively hunt Zombies a lot and the more building-oriented players who like to dig in and sit out hordes. Both active Z-Killers and those who help passively with barbed wire, spike traps, turrets, etc. to stop the Hordes would benefit and both play styles are equally rewarding without nerfing the other to death.

 
I'd agree to that if Zombies getting damaged/killed by traps etc. would also give XP.
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Not a good idea, trust me. Everyone would then simply gravitate towards the most effective way to grind zombies through traps, do anything in their power to attract more zombies etc etc.

 
Not a good idea, trust me. Everyone would then simply gravitate towards the most effective way to grind zombies through traps, do anything in their power to attract more zombies etc etc.
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100% agree you. It would be, let's power level to blade traps and build a passive base and have 15 forges going to ATRACT MOAR ZAMBIES!!!

lol

 
Then you are talking about balance, and you can't deny that the game is currently heavily weighted towards xp grinding on zeds. TFP want it this way or they wouldnt have instituded this in the first place.
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Above the good points raised by PoppaTot and RestinPieces, your other problem is who would you assign the XP to? The person who built the trap? The player who placed? Whoever was nearby when it killed a Zombie? A share amongst all three?

It'd be an easily exploitable nightmare.

 
I get nearly 400xp per rock I break. And honestly building should net very little XP. I honestly don’t understand the gripe.

 
I get nearly 400xp per rock I break. And honestly building should net very little XP. I honestly don’t understand the gripe.
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Then you obviously aren't a builder. Understanding the gripe is easy when you are.

 
Then you obviously aren't a builder. Understanding the gripe is easy when you are.
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Rocks don't fight back.

Building isn't as risky as killin' Zeek, so the reward shouldn't equal it (which is not to say I necessarily think it's not up for some further tuning in 17.E).

 
On that note, honest question. I have 0 issue with your playstyle, as I've stated to not nerf the Zed XP. This leads me to ask you, are you against other playstyles being able to level on par with you? If yes, why?
I've noticed throughout a few threads that generally I'm seeing:

1) Enforcer role loves new A17e, and is against balancing XP for other roles because ???

2) Builder/miner/farmer roles don't want to nerf Zed XP, just want the same XP opportunity for doing their community role and are undecided on how they feel about A17e or dislike it all together.

Now of course this is just my observation and is not backed by polling or statistics and is based on this forum, streamers, twitter, ect....
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Because it's not about playstyle. I love crafting and mining. I wish it was more enjoyable in A17.

However if I can level with 0 risk at approximately the same rate as leveling with high risk, why take the risk? Just, general principle? Because that's removing the whole point of the risk in the first place. If you get to level 100 about the same time via crafting as another guy does via fighting zombies and nearly dying 100x a day then why in the world is he fighting zombies all the time? Why not just go play a dedicated FPS?

They are not 'playstyles'. They are levels of risk. The player who fights zombies probably wants to do some building and crafting too and the guy crafting usually wants to fight some zombies. Generally there's overlap. However in the end, for game design, risk vs reward is a key piece to game design as it drives player behavior overall. Lowest risk to highest reward is the optimal choice and the one that gives the most success over time.

Where you put that pin on the scale, where the lowest risk for highest reward is, that's the optimal, most valued path. So now the question becomes how much control do you have over the position of that pin at a server level and how much is set inherently in the game? I just made a new thread on that subject and hopefully something of an answer for it.

 
Because it's not about playstyle. I love crafting and mining. I wish it was more enjoyable in A17.
However if I can level with 0 risk at approximately the same rate as leveling with high risk, why take the risk? Just, general principle? Because that's removing the whole point of the risk in the first place. If you get to level 100 about the same time via crafting as another guy does via fighting zombies and nearly dying 100x a day then why in the world is he fighting zombies all the time? Why not just go play a dedicated FPS?

They are not 'playstyles'. They are levels of risk. The player who fights zombies probably wants to do some building and crafting too and the guy crafting usually wants to fight some zombies. Generally there's overlap. However in the end, for game design, risk vs reward is a key piece to game design as it drives player behavior overall. Lowest risk to highest reward is the optimal choice and the one that gives the most success over time.

Where you put that pin on the scale, where the lowest risk for highest reward is, that's the optimal, most valued path. So now the question becomes how much control do you have over the position of that pin at a server level and how much is set inherently in the game? I just made a new thread on that subject and hopefully something of an answer for it.
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I don't understand where everyone is getting this "zero risk" factor with building? Screamers? hordes attacking when you're in a mine? animals ect attacking while your out in the open. Just because you are not actively running into action POIs 24/7 doesn't mean there is no risk and that you're infinitely safe lol

 
I don't understand where everyone is getting this "zero risk" factor with building? Screamers? hordes attacking when you're in a mine? animals ect attacking while your out in the open. Just because you are not actively running into action POIs 24/7 doesn't mean there is no risk and that you're infinitely safe lol
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Who said it was "zero risk"?

Similarly, you can't (reasonably anyway I think) claim it's "just as risky" as seeking out Zeek.

Less risk, less reward. Sounds (more or less) balanced to me.

 
I get nearly 400xp per rock I break. And honestly building should net very little XP. I honestly don’t understand the gripe.
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Here's the gripe I have with it: I like to build big and I'd love to do so from the beginning of the game. Gathering materials is painfully slow and I need the perks to improve gathering performance. And what do I need to get the perks? That's right levels.

At the current distribution of bonuses from mining related perks and the rate at which levels are gained with mining and building activities, it's simply better to just not build or mine and kill Zs until it starts to become bareable.

3 levels of Sex-rex, 3 levels of miner 69er, 3 levels of Mother lode is where it starts to remotely feel like a workflow and not a chore. All those perks 3rd stage is gated at level 20. Even when maxed, mining is still slow af and with the last resort –Auger– nerfed aswell. I would agree that placing blocks should not net xp at all, because exploits, but what speaks against giving some decent xp for upgrading? There you have to spend materials that you have to gather first.

There aren't even building related perks to begin with, which is a shame. They even added a bunch of (admittedly hilarious) cooking recipes to get a full cooking perk tree in the game, but could not come up with one building/block upgrading related one.

Who said it was "zero risk"?
Similarly, you can't (reasonably anyway I think) claim it's "just as risky" as seeking out Zeek.

Less risk, less reward. Sounds (more or less) balanced to me.
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But there's a problem with this one-size-fits all reward system. I'm all for the general concept of risk to reward. In building and gathering mats for building however it's not as much about risks taken, but TIME invested. That's why a leveling system for different activities was so much better, it just needed proper scaling adjustments.

 
Who said it was "zero risk"?
Similarly, you can't (reasonably anyway I think) claim it's "just as risky" as seeking out Zeek.

Less risk, less reward. Sounds (more or less) balanced to me.
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Essentially, yeah. And you absolutely can build 0 risk (outside of BM) mining bases or crafting bases. I have one on top of a skyscraper in A17 right now. Could probably just wait out a BM in it pretty easily but I don't want to risk my still nascent bachelor sky pad to test it. With strong reinforcement design? Absolutely, I could sit up there through every BM and craft to my hearts content. It would take me countless hours to mine out all the actual resources just in the building itself perfectly safely 6 days and nights of the week for floors 2-13, go down and do repairs after the BM.

I could do something similar anywhere. Deep mining base, perfectly safe, adjacent BM survival structure.

Compare that to scavenging POIs with a fire axe.

- - - Updated - - -

Here's the gripe I have with it: I like to build big and I'd love to do so from the beginning of the game. Gathering materials is painfully slow and I need the perks to improve gathering performance. And what do I need to get the perks? That's right levels.At the current distribution of bonuses from mining related perks and the rate at which levels are gained with mining and building activities, it's simply better to just not build or mine and kill Zs until it starts to become bareable.

3 levels of Sex-rex, 3 levels of miner 69er, 3 levels of Mother lode is where it starts to remotely feel like a workflow and not a chore. All those perks 3rd stage is gated at level 20. Even when maxed, mining is still slow af and with the last resort –Auger– nerfed aswell. I would agree that placing blocks should not net xp at all, because exploits, but what speaks against giving some decent xp for upgrading? There you have to spend materials that you have to gather first.

There aren't even building related perks to begin with, which is a shame. They even added a bunch of (admittedly hilarious) cooking recipes to get a full cooking perk tree in the game, but could not come up with one building/block upgrading related one.

But there's a problem with this one-size-fits all reward system. I'm all for the general concept of risk to reward. In building and gathering mats for building however it's not as much about risks taken, but TIME invested. That's why a leveling system for different activities was so much better, it just needed proper scaling adjustments.
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Time /= risk, but I do agree. Crafting/mining needs more reward than it gives currently. Or, preferably, mining needs to be faster. I really dislike the current super slow and tedious pace to mining.

 
Who said it was "zero risk"?
Similarly, you can't (reasonably anyway I think) claim it's "just as risky" as seeking out Zeek.

Less risk, less reward. Sounds (more or less) balanced to me.
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Mining is riskier. On the surface, you can, at least, kite zeds properly.

 
Time /= risk, (...)
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That's my point. Building related activities primarily are a matter of time and the desire to reduce said time invested, that's why they shouldn't even be bound to the same reward system.

IMO, they should have done away with the concept of a global player level and global xp for all activities and instead gone full-on towards the progressive skills system with unlockable specialization skills gated by the base skills value.

 
Above the good points raised by PoppaTot and RestinPieces, your other problem is who would you assign the XP to? The person who built the trap? The player who placed? Whoever was nearby when it killed a Zombie? A share amongst all three?
It'd be an easily exploitable nightmare.
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You seem slightly confused and appear to be refering to MP

 
More fuel on the fire: I punched down a whole corn field (very quickly) and got over 3000 xp. Yay farming xp!

 
Adding my 2cents here (and that's all it really is), I still think Zombie XP (and Bandits even more so when we get them), ought to be the stand out XP gainer.
Other activities should award XP, definitely, but not nearly so much as countering the games primary threat.
Click to expand...
While I do agree that it should reward a substantial amount of xp I also believe other activities outside of fighting should still reward a reasonable amount of xp so that the game is not 100% geared towards fighting and still allows and encourages building and crafting and whatnot.

 
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