PC Devs, is this balancing possible or are we set on direction?

[InSanity]

That's my point. Building related activities primarily are a matter of time and the desire to reduce said time invested, that's why they shouldn't even be bound to the same reward system.
IMO, they should have done away with the concept of a global player level and global xp for all activities and instead gone full-on towards the progressive skills system with unlockable specialization skills gated by the base skills value.

I would second a system like that because in alpha 16 you had to use the item you wanted to level, such as upgrading things to level up repair tools and so on and so forth and that system rewarded you for playing how you wanted so a split system based on distinct progressive skills would achieve the same goal and I believe would satisfy many different playstyles.

 

[pahbi]

I respectfully disagree, it's about playstyle equality for me. If TFP came out right now and told me that the final vision of 7DTD is geared more toward FPS and that they intend to continue to remove the builder and other playstyles as an equal emphasis. I would be just fine with that and would most likely revert back to A16 and play some of the mods, even though I truly believe A17 would be a lot better than A16 if balanced, or just move on completely when I'm bored in few weeks to a month and stream something else. Then check back when the next alpha comes out and see if any changes had been made to restore it back to the game I enjoyed.
I know the game development is not about my specific preferences, but we all have a right to discuss constructively what we want/expected.

All good.

Can't make a great game without feedback.

- P

 

[OzHawkeye]

You seem slightly confused and appear to be refering to MP

Any system you propose has to be able to deal with MP.

- - - Updated - - -

While I do agree that it should reward a substantial amount of xp I also believe other activities outside of fighting should still reward a reasonable amount of xp so that the game is not 100% geared towards fighting and still allows and encourages building and crafting and whatnot.

No issues with TFP fine tuning the current values at all.

 

[grieferbastard]

I'm a firm believer though that any solution or balancing needs to still be fun for the building/crafting/mining focused population and still be exciting/challenging for the combat/exploration/survival crowd.

7DTD is very well situated to appeal to both groups and has a big following in both. Some loved A16, some love A17. It just seems like such a loss to cut out chunks of either player group. I truly hope we get some sort of custom balancing system. That way you can have crafting/building focused servers, survival, etc. This allows for the biggest inclusion of player population and is a big part of why games like ARK have had such a huge following for years even with so many other issues. You could play a server or make a server that was geared toward exactly how you wanted to play and like minded players would gather there and solo players could tailor the game very well to their interests.

 

[JCrook1028]

madmole

madmole is offline

Fun Pimps Staff

"I've been griping to Gazz for weeks now to increase early game firearm damage and nerf zombie kill xp 30%, and double passive XP gains, at least roughly."

 

[grieferbastard]

madmolemadmole is offline

Fun Pimps Staff

"I've been griping to Gazz for weeks now to increase early game firearm damage and nerf zombie kill xp 30%, and double passive XP gains, at least roughly."

That's all stuff I can get behind. Honestly when you've adjusted to the new zombie AI you can pick up 2-4 levels a game day on a proper POI rampage. That's fun and all but for example right now I'm spending a lot of time fixing up my post apoc zombie-free bachelor pad and gains have dropped to almost 0. While I do believe that you should be leveling more quickly by taking more risks it's currently too big a gap.

And 100% behind the firearm buff. They're just not as good as melee. Firearms should be superior to melee (which they're not) but resource intensive to create and maintain (which they are). I want a reason to carry a gun and go deep on perception vs strength for a comparable build. Right now that's just not the case. If you're going to go another direction than melee it seems to only work with archery and stealth.

 

[PoppaTot]

madmolemadmole is offline

Fun Pimps Staff

"I've been griping to Gazz for weeks now to increase early game firearm damage and nerf zombie kill xp 30%, and double passive XP gains, at least roughly."

I saw that this morning and thanked him for his reply to my comment in that thread. It is reassuring that TFP are listening to the community. Even when some went off the deep end a little with their initial reaction lol.

EDIT: a word

 

[Wigbert]

Now its game of looking for zombies and maniacally killing them.. Best beginer strat is to murder hundrets of zombies to get exp and lvl's.

I don't think you will have to look very far, they are literally crawling out of the woodwork.

As far as " Zombies should be obstacles and dangers to be avoided in game "

I love killing Zombies. I am still mad at them for destroying civilization as we know it. Im out for revenge.

I agree with you and most others, the XP for mining and building and crafting should be bumped up. :smile-new:

 

[Krougal]

Keep in mind that you do not only get XP from harvesting.You also get to keep the resources and build a mighty fortress for the zombies to turn into rubble. =)

And that in itself should be it's own reward, 'nuff said.

Now much as I don't mind it, I do have to admit the rest of them are right that it has turned most of us into kill-crazed zombie hunter psychos...if I see zeds I'll stop what I'm doing to go kill them now, wandering horde walking by without noticing me? *wave arms franticly*

A16...I'd...oh wait, I'd pretty much still stop what I was doing because they were still good XP and loot. Nevermind.

 

[Jihh]

So when A16 stable went live, I started a game with 7 friends and since we need a lot more space, storage, workstations, tools and weapons than a singleplayer or a duo needs, we decided than one (it was me) stays back in the base and keeps building it while keeping the workstations working and providing everyone with the newest and highest tools and weapons and assort the loot they bring back home. Back then I could keep up the leveling with defending against screamer and digging some sand and clay near the base. I was on par with the levels and thus could build all workstations right on time.

We will start a new game once A17 is stable and then again we'd like to have someone staying home and keep the base growing, running and safe. But with the new exp distribution he won't be able to keep up with the levels and thus he will be behind with workstations and crafting level. So the one person dedicated to build the base will be the last one to be able to build workstations. He will be the last one to be able to make concrete, steel, firearms and clothing. The tools and weapon he crafts will be of lower level than those of the others. Just because he won't be able to get enough exp near the base.

It's not like we can't adapt to that. We just won't have a dedicated basebuilder. Organisation will be a lot more chaotic, but we will manage it somehow. But what exactly is the point of talent trees, specializations and teaming up, if in the end everyone is doing the exact same thing? Everyone will hunt zombies. Everyone will loot POIs because of the zombies inside. Everyone will farm just as many stone (plus its additions), clay and wood as currently needed and everyone will craft his own weapons and tools. And if we don't plan ahead, six of us will have to watch the other two building at night, because it would be to chaotic for everyone building at the same time. Other than that there will be no division of labor happening despite having talent trees. Just because the exp gain distribution is way off.

So aside from the problems singleplayer and duos have, the one-sided exp distribution takes the whole multiplayer aspect and the talent trees ad absurdum. That mining gives materials in addition to exp may be an argument in a singleplayer environment and comparing two singleplayers to each other, but it completely fails in multiplayer games, since the whole team will benefit from those materials, while only the miner itself will suffer from less experience gained.

Also: If 7 players are out int he world hunting for zombies and one player stays back in the base, the probability of a wandering horde targetting him and thus providing him with exp is way lower than in a singleplayer game. With way less experience for mining and cutting trees, this leaves him to screamers as his only noteworthy exp source. And as we all now, screamer can spawn running zombies and dogs even on low gamestages. So it's not like there is no risk involved.

 

[SoberSean]

@ the above post, you can set XP distribution from kills to a very large radius in the settings window so guys back at base share in the kill XP to help level them. Should be no problem this way, already a thing you can natively.

 

[Jihh]

I do have to admit the rest of them are right that it has turned most of us into kill-crazed zombie hunter psychos...if I see zeds I'll stop what I'm doing to go kill them now, wandering horde walking by without noticing me? *wave arms franticly*

And that's funny, since many of the changes aimed to get the game back on the survival track, which it lacked in A16 a lot.

In A16 if I was back in base after looting POIs at like 7pm, I went out again to get some clay or wood or whatever was near the base and I could possibly use. Now I head straight into the next building with respawned zombies and smash some heads.

@ the above post, you can set XP distribution from kills to a very large radius in the settings window so guys back at base share in the kill XP to help level them. Should be no problem this way, already a thing you can natively.

You can change almost everything in the xml. But it's about if this exp gain distribution is good game design or not. And in my opinion it's not. I explained why I think so. Also as far as I know parties are for up to 5 players. So in an 8 player game not everyone can be in the same party.

 

[stupid]

Yeah this is just going to take some patience.Balancing takes a really long time to get right.

If people just relax and give TFP a chance I'm sure they'll find the end product A17 will be really great.

You hear that, guys? Balancing is going to take a really long time to get right and we should be more patient. The 1.5 years we waited for the update to come out wasn't enough time for them. We need to relax and give TFP a chance.

 

[Jihh]

You hear that, guys? Balancing is going to take a really long time to get right and we should be more patient. The 1.5 years we waited for the update to come out wasn't enough time for them. We need to relax and give TFP a chance.

But he is right. Balancing is more of a beta thing than alpha. They were probably mostly working on features. It's one thing to provide (critical) feedback for them to know what's wrong/unbalanced/... and so they can adjust/change it. But it's a completely other thing to ridicule the hard work they put in. Can we please stay at providing constructive feedback, so they actually have a reason to listen to it?

 

[stupid]

But he is right. Balancing is more of a beta thing than alpha. They were probably mostly working on features. It's one thing to provide (critical) feedback for them to know what's wrong/unbalanced/... and so they can adjust/change it. But it's a completely other thing to ridicule the hard work they put in. Can we please stay at providing constructive feedback, so they actually have a reason to listen to it?

I'm agreeing with you. They put a lot of hard work into this update with all the new features and I'm just reiterating that people need to be patient. Balance isn't something that is achieved with a mere six years of development time. People need to get real and not expect things to happen too quickly.