PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Jackelmyer]

I want to be considering the foundation/granite idea but my brain keeps thinking that it is its own structual system.
So instead of calculating once on a square metre it is calculating twice.

Just makes no sense resource wise.

I don't think so. Because I'm pretty sure that SI calculates to the nearest fully supported block and stops. I don't think it calcs to bedrock. If I were to guess... SI's real behavior is:

• World Gen: Fill Terrain in a way that all blocks are fully SI Supported. I don't recall seeing many overhanging naturally generated terrain blocks. Like no jutting out cliffs.
  
• All blocks have a default load amount or a default "isFullySupported" flag set to true.
  

At that point, SI always calcs to the nears supported block on a change event. So it's not fully going up and down to bedrock.

 

[Aurelius]

I try.And maybe more important i try to explain/show what it is that offend me.

Finally i like good Discussion that stay about the topic (and not the people with a other opinion, even if its smetimes get me and make me countering on a equal niveau) So no problem for me, but i understand if people take it sometimes personell.

Subtext is more than Imagination, everbody know that it exists. But much less people can understand it, and much more less people can write it purposely. Most people write it only subconsciously.

My comment wasn't directed at you in particular, just responding to you about a topic in general.

-A

 

[graphite]

@Jackelmyer

I like the idea of the safe storage but to a certain degree you could do that now but it does not have the dual purpose of visiting a trader and storing items.

If breadcrumbs become working then there maybe a problem of zombie destroying the building you house your banked items in.

But i imagine you could use a vending machine to store items and it would be realitively safe.

I think the players that it will most benefit is PVP but i think it is a feature worth implementing.

 

[Jackelmyer]

@Jackelmyer
I like the idea of the safe storage but to a certain degree you could do that now but it does not have the dual purpose of visiting a trader and storing items.

If breadcrumbs become working then there maybe a problem of zombie destroying the building you house your banked items in.

But i imagine you could use a vending machine to store items and it would be realitively safe.

I think the players that it will most benefit is PVP but i think it is a feature worth implementing.

That's largely why limit the storage capacity of the freebie and have it stored at a faction site. Partly to limit what a PVP person can do with it.

But it's really more for new players to have a place to put stuff and have it not really be OP.

With some of the direction I hear even Madmole talking. You're stuffs gonna get wrecked far more in the future than it does now. Having this rentable storage he mentioned is a great idea. But more so after a player gets some experience creating a revenue to keep that rented storage afloat.

This would be a lil thing for new players.

 

[graphite]

I don't think so. Because I'm pretty sure that SI calculates to the nearest fully supported block and stops. I don't think it calcs to bedrock. If I were to guess... SI's real behavior is:

• World Gen: Fill Terrain in a way that all blocks are fully SI Supported. I don't recall seeing many overhanging naturally generated terrain blocks. Like no jutting out cliffs.
  
• All blocks have a default load amount or a default "isFullySupported" flag set to true.
  

At that point, SI always calcs to the nears supported block on a change event. So it's not fully going up and down to bedrock.

I want to believe lol

But i cant understand how it knows the block is fully supported with only the mass and glue values?

You could use some sort of tag system but it wouldnt check further down and you would allways get floating blocks.

Without some crazy recursion going on i cant work it out and it would be simplier and seems to cost less resource wise in a rough estimate of calculations to work from bedrock.

But i could be completely wrong and there is some voodoo going on i cant get my head around so dont let me deter you i just wanted to add i cant see to get to thinking of its implementation

 

[Tilleen]

At the very least it would be realistic.You can have a two dimensional array representing ALL cells (or chunks) in the map with the number of zombies. Done!

Now if you want to get fancy, have an array for each zombie type (or just one three dimensional array), so if you leave a cell that had 6 Z-dogs and come back the next day, you STILL have 6 Z-dogs to deal with!

You can then have a zombie migration system based on the 7 day horde!

Didn't kill the blood moon horde? Bad move, because they are now your neighbors! Hiding underground and not killing the blood hordes is a fast track to getting yourself royally screwed!

I think you have just implemented Quantum Field Theory! Well done. Just turn the array into a wave function, and the number of zombies is the energy level and it is close-ish.

 

[MidnightRook]

Hey everyone, sorry I have been out of it for a bit. What have your brilliant minds come up with while I was away? I see quantum field theory, diagrams for SI and ooey gooey goodness about storage and factions, Madmole got decapitated and we had a funeral for a bird...I'm pretty sure that last bit isn't real. But speaking of Madmole, has anyone heard from him? Is his bloodsugar ok? How about his fluids? I make a great soup! Can anyone confirm that factions/npcs are rumored to be a major focus on this one? Also one day, I will have the death machine from Army of Darkness. Can't wait to scream "WAAAAR!!" at the top of my lungs as I cruise around my castle courtyard mulching zombies who came to eat my face. Dream, dream, dream.

 

[Darkfoxx117]

Hey everyone, sorry I have been out of it for a bit. What have your brilliant minds come up with while I was away? I see quantum field theory, diagrams for SI and ooey gooey goodness about storage and factions, Madmole got decapitated and we had a funeral for a bird...I'm pretty sure that last bit isn't real. But speaking of Madmole, has anyone heard from him? Is his bloodsugar ok? How about his fluids? I make a great soup! Can anyone confirm that factions/npcs are rumored to be a major focus on this one? Also one day, I will have the death machine from Army of Darkness. Can't wait to scream "WAAAAR!!" at the top of my lungs as I cruise around my castle courtyard mulching zombies who came to eat my face. Dream, dream, dream.

A17 was indeed touted to be the AI Alpha so fingers crossed yes NPC's and factions this alpha.

 

[Guppycur]

A couple of people on this forum have accused me of doing exactly this, but you can ask TSBX, Guppycur, Doombringer, or StompyNZ if I've ever held the animosity you speak of. They'll most likely tell you "no", and we've had some good, long, in-depth conversations on the topic. (Full disclosure - I'm all for zombies wrecking a base above, below, and inside-out. Along with other threats that will make life more challenging in any biome.)
My point being, people around here have a tendency to project waaaay too much. Especially when it comes to hot topics like "underground dwelling".

If you disagree with a stance someone holds, that's fine - but don't read into their posts that they are out to get you.

-A

Vouch.

 

[sillls]

Hey everyone, sorry I have been out of it for a bit. What have your brilliant minds come up with while I was away? I see quantum field theory, diagrams for SI and ooey gooey goodness about storage and factions, Madmole got decapitated and we had a funeral for a bird...I'm pretty sure that last bit isn't real. But speaking of Madmole, has anyone heard from him? Is his bloodsugar ok? How about his fluids? I make a great soup! Can anyone confirm that factions/npcs are rumored to be a major focus on this one? Also one day, I will have the death machine from Army of Darkness. Can't wait to scream "WAAAAR!!" at the top of my lungs as I cruise around my castle courtyard mulching zombies who came to eat my face. Dream, dream, dream.

Madmole is like that. He will be gone for weeks on end and suddenly he pops in like a thief in the night. Chatting up the forum and answering questions. Then out again.

I don't know when he will show up but I will take you up on that soup if he passes on it.

 

[Jackelmyer]

I want to believe lol
But i cant understand how it knows the block is fully supported with only the mass and glue values?

You could use some sort of tag system but it wouldnt check further down and you would allways get floating blocks.

Without some crazy recursion going on i cant work it out and it would be simplier and seems to cost less resource wise in a rough estimate of calculations to work from bedrock.

But i could be completely wrong and there is some voodoo going on i cant get my head around so dont let me deter you i just wanted to add i cant see to get to thinking of its implementation

Well if you think about it, SI only needs to fall down and shoot up to it's neighbor blocks. So all you're doing is : my load changed, recalc my load. Pass to all touching blocks my new weight. Until I hit a block who's current load doesn't change.

If everything starts Supported, you rarely have to shoot out very far with calculations.

That doesn't leave floating block situations unless there's an error while calculating.

 

[JaxTeller718]

You know...
This is an Open World Sandbox game too... As such, there should be points where you get bored. I mean, if we're being true to the genre. Points where you get yourself so well setup that you're like... "Ok. Now what?".

So if it's Tower Defense that you're shooting for, honestly shooting to defend a Tower... You'll likely gravitate toward building a tower that needs to be defended. And... you can do that... Without underground anything. Without any changes. Even without AI changes.

Do you want to defend a tower? Is a stilt platform a tower you can play, "Tower Defense" from? No? Then... build a tower to defend from...

Right? I mean... Is this a point we're all missing here?

A few have mentioned here that breaking the shackles of what Minecraft built is the only way to really expand and innovate in the genre. I agree with you to a certain extent. And I think that's where the rented trailer/rooms would come in, and on some MP servers there isa town set up where you can just go and relax.

Its up to the Pimps really if they want people to be able to relax for more than a night or two. My opinion means very little. I know what I want but if I don't get it there are ways to do it so no big issues there. For me I think renting extended stays is the best way to please both sides perhaps. Also like Roland said no one said there will be a non stop deluge of threats but maintaining some defenses underground like you would aboveground can't be a bad idea. Makes people work to maintain their safe spot.

 

[Jackelmyer]

Also like Roland said no one said there will be a non stop deluge of threats but maintaining some defenses underground like you would aboveground can't be a bad idea. Makes people work to maintain their safe spot.

YOU TELLING ME HOW TO PLAY? HUH?!

lol.

I mean, you kinda are. But I'm not butt hurt about it.

 

[MidnightRook]

Madmole is like that. He will be gone for weeks on end and suddenly he pops in like a thief in the night. Chatting up the forum and answering questions. Then out again.
I don't know when he will show up but I will take you up on that soup if he passes on it.

Oh Sillls, you can certainly have some!

@Darkfoxx117 Was A17 really the AI Alpha? I have little clue on these things some times. Is that where they added the senses like eyes and ears to the zombs? Thanks for the reply too!

BTW I love the new vulture concept, but sometimes I miss the ZomBees and their delectable honey. Only because I loved calling them ZomBees though. Heh heh, way more clever than hornet. Also, hornets don't do the honey thing I don't think.

 

[graphite]

Well if you think about it, SI only needs to fall down and shoot up to it's neighbor blocks. So all you're doing is : my load changed, recalc my load. Pass to all touching blocks my new weight. Until I hit a block who's current load doesn't change.
If everything starts Supported, you rarely have to shoot out very far with calculations.

That doesn't leave floating block situations unless there's an error while calculating.

Ok this is what i have in my head for every square metre chunk.

Calculated load is initalised == to max load

The rules are

"Any block in vertical connection with bedrock you do not subtract the mass from".

"Every block added that is not a supporting block (it is connected on a side face) you subtract the mass off calculated load".

Every block you check is maxload == to calculated load.

So you are only doing a jump if not equal branch if the condition is not met (JNE)

At the branch you set up an extra counter to hold total calculated load and add the mass instead of subtracting.

Then there are 2 rules

"is calculated load greater than zero" if it is the block is supported and if it is not then you trigger the fall event.

"Is total calculated load of connected blocks greater than max load" if it is not the blocks are supported if it is the block collapses.

Regarding multiple supporting blocks glued to supported blocks then the max load is added together ie: it stacks.

Bit weird i know with 2 counters and one subtracts and one adds but i think it works.

I will read what you have written again and try and work out a simaler ruleset and system

 

[Jackelmyer]

Ok this is what i have in my head for every square metre chunk.
Calculated load is initalised == to max load

The rules are

"Any block in vertical connection with bedrock you do not subtract the mass from".

"Every block added that is not a supporting block (it is connected on a side face) you subtract the mass off calculated load".

Every block you check is maxload == to calculated load.

So you are only doing a jump if not equal branch if the condition is not met (JNE)

At the branch you set up an extra counter to hold total calculated load and add the mass instead of subtracting.

Then there are 2 rules

"is calculated load greater than zero" if it is the block is supported and if it is not then you trigger the fall event.

"Is total calculated load of connected blocks greater than max load" if it is not the blocks are supported if it is the block collapses.

Regarding multiple supporting blocks glued to supported blocks then the max load is added together ie: it stacks.

Bit weird i know with 2 counters and one subtracts and one adds but i think it works.

I will read what you have written again and try and work out a simaler ruleset and system

I think we're thinking in similar regards. But without a white board.... No one will ever know...

 

[Roland]

Uggh...this is so two days ago....

 

[graphite]

Uggh...this is so two days ago....

I know my bad no more which end of the egg do you crack to start eating it i promise.

 

[JaxTeller718]

YOU TELLING ME HOW TO PLAY? HUH?!
lol.

I mean, you kinda are. But I'm not butt hurt about it.

Haha I'm sorry I totally don't mean to. It's hard to have an opinion WITHOUT kind of doing that. I mean, I don't envy game devs. Every single decision is a dictation of how someone should play otherwise no decisions would EVER be made.

 

[Jackelmyer]

Uggh...this is so two days ago....

Omg. You basic b!