PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Doombringer101]

The only way I manage to consistently get the BM zombies underground is using Guppy's maze idea of a shallow moat encircling your whole base so they can drop in easily from any direction.

Breadcrumbs and improved AI/pathing is something I am really looking forward to seeing.

 

[Tilleen]

What about a granite layer that is two blocks thick between dirt and stone and SI is only calculated to Granite instead of all the way to bedrock? Then you could have as many caves and caverns below granite and it wouldn't mess with any surface structures? You could also use it as a gate for deep mining if granite could only be destroyed with a steel pickaxe? Then the only SI issues would be any tunnels dug above granite and those spots where a player punched through it to go deeper.

What about, once there are a number of levels of stone (3), or dirt (6) then it becomes like bed rock. So holes would only affect a number of layers above them. This would be harder to implement I think then the granite layer idea. It could also make above ground structurally sound, if you make a platform that is 3 concrete blocks think. So as long as that platform was stable it did not matter what was above it.

I am still catching up so, I have not read any posts in the future yet.

 

[Tilleen]

By the way, anyone tried dipping KitKats in tea (English breakfast w/milk). I've just eaten 2

Similar to Tim Tams in Coffee? Except you are supposed to drink the coffee through them!

 

[graphite]

I just want to reiterate that i can see the point of people opposed to underground digging zombies but i dont compare them to if i was to say on bloodmoons the earths magnetic field is altered that primary cosmic rays pass though and effect above ground dwellers and we all have to get underground or have some kind of electromagnetic field generator on there base or face radiation posioning.

I doubt anybody would want that as players who run around on horde night in the open would not be able to do this.

But if i was to say on blood moon primary cosmic rays effected block damage rate so above ground bases you had less defensive chance some might see it as a challenge but would be unpopular to most players who only have there base above ground and this is where i put the underground digging zombies.

Blame Stallionsden for the spacethreat examples.

 

[Roland]

I just want to reiterate that i can see the point of people opposed to underground digging zombies but i dont compare them to if i was to say on bloodmoons the earths magnetic field is altered that primary cosmic rays pass though and effect above ground dwellers and we all have to get underground or have some kind of electromagnetic field generator on there base or face radiation posioning.
I doubt anybody would want that as players who run around on horde night in the open would not be able to do this.

But if i was to say on blood moon primary cosmic rays effected block damage rate so above ground bases you had less defensive chance some might see it as a challenge but would be unpopular to most players who only have there base above ground where i put the underground digging zombies.

Blame Stallionsden for the spacethreat examples.

It's all about providing means for overcoming the threat. Surface radiation on Bloodmoon night is just fine if wearing a hazmat suit counteracts it.

Digging zombies are just fine if there is a way to counteract them.

Any threat in the game that gives us an objective to improve our quality of life in regards to that threat is what a survival game is all about. It isn't just about the developers finding new ways to kill players. Its that AND providing means for surviving those threats.

 

[dhlmaster]

I never fully understood the blockID limitation to begin with.

I think it comes down to a desire to limit the size of the data variable that holds the block ID. The more bits of data are required to express a block ID within the game's code, the more data needs to be stored in a chunk. I'm assuming that with a voxel system, the chunk is basically stored as a 3 dimensional matrix of block IDs. Changing the size of the block ID could have the potential to make the chunk file exponentially larger. This leads to more chunk loading lag, which nobody wants.

 

[Roland]

no, it was the irritation of the discussion going from how could digger zombies be created to the attitude of we will force those who like underground bases out come hell or high-water remarks. It went from the a interesting topic to a "we are going to force you to get out and fight the zombies or die if you don't".

Can you find a quote on that Janna? From what I could find it is only those who feel like you who keep bringing that into the thread accusing those who want underground threats of this motivation but I haven't found anyone who is actually talking about the threats saying that their motive is drive people out of the underworld and permanently to the surface to completely prevent them from building underground.

I know my whole motivation from the beginning is to RETURN to the underworld and be able to build a base that can be threatened and have to defend it. I don't want anyone driven out.

Can you point me to posts other than your own where this sentiment is being agreed upon by a group of individuals full of glee at the prospect that no gameplay would ever happen underground ever again?

 

[Tilleen]

As soon as i have reinforced concrete there is no challenge to defend a 7th day horde.

As soon as I have built a raised platform, to fire arrows from, 7th days hordes are not a problem, generally day 7 or 14.

 

[graphite]

It's all about providing means for overcoming the threat. Surface radiation on Bloodmoon night is just fine if wearing a hazmat suit counteracts it.
Digging zombies are just fine if there is a way to counteract them.

Any threat in the game that gives us an objective to improve our quality of life in regards to that threat is what a survival game is all about. It isn't just about the developers finding new ways to kill players. Its that AND providing means for surviving those threats.

You make an interesting point but nomad players would not be able to nomad until they had hazmat.

At the momment hazmat headgear would not allow a headlight so that would be a additional downside for the nomad example.

The example is kind of an alternative that some underground dwellers are asking for being equipment counters that totally cancel whatever threat is occuring but not sure they would want the underground off limits to until they had the equipment.

To a small degree it is as mining without a mining hat is difficult but not impossible and adds to the heatmap using torches.

But essentially the end result is different where when you get the equipment you can always counter the threats or complete tasks compared to even if you have the equipment then sometimes the enemy AI will beat you.

It goes back to an earlier reply i made about frequency of tipping the balance scales and if the developers design it so it is a constant battle and this could extend the gameplay IMHO.

 

[Jackelmyer]

You know...

This is an Open World Sandbox game too... As such, there should be points where you get bored. I mean, if we're being true to the genre. Points where you get yourself so well setup that you're like... "Ok. Now what?".

So if it's Tower Defense that you're shooting for, honestly shooting to defend a Tower... You'll likely gravitate toward building a tower that needs to be defended. And... you can do that... Without underground anything. Without any changes. Even without AI changes.

Do you want to defend a tower? Is a stilt platform a tower you can play, "Tower Defense" from? No? Then... build a tower to defend from...

Right? I mean... Is this a point we're all missing here?

 

[Royal Deluxe]

Can you find a quote on that Janna? From what I could find it is only those who feel like you who keep bringing that into the thread accusing those who want underground threats of this motivation but I haven't found anyone who is actually talking about the threats saying that their motive is drive people out of the underworld and permanently to the surface to completely prevent them from building underground.

Posts that show this intention clear are really rare. But posts with that subtext are more common.

As Baserock Dweller you will see it very fast.

 

[graphite]

You know...
This is an Open World Sandbox game too... As such, there should be points where you get bored. I mean, if we're being true to the genre. Points where you get yourself so well setup that you're like... "Ok. Now what?".

So if it's Tower Defense that you're shooting for, honestly shooting to defend a Tower... You'll likely gravitate toward building a tower that needs to be defended. And... you can do that... Without underground anything. Without any changes. Even without AI changes.

Do you want to defend a tower? Is a stilt platform a tower you can play, "Tower Defense" from? No? Then... build a tower to defend from...

Right? I mean... Is this a point we're all missing here?

I think the nature of the beast of being a early access game in alpha is the developers want to reward long term players with a game they can continue playing and give new players an even longer experience.

Extending the gameplay lifespan is difficult and a huge part of it is players trying new things.

The game has not hit the limit of variation within its scope but getting there is a bumpy ride for community and developers.

So all the time the game is being added to and existing componants are tweaked and polished then i dont think getting bored will be a major point.

If anything this game has too much gameplay scope and a complete vacuum on time.

 

[Bubo]

..Personally (well my husband agrees with me), I think the only zed that should have digging capabilities is the zombie dog. Digging is not instinctual in humans, but it is in dogs and other canines..

Agree ..and Bears. Imagine denning/hibernating bears in the snow biome.

..Click image for larger version. Name: silverfish.png

There's no way I'm clicking on that lol. Nope.

So is this a left handed thread, a right handed thread, or a back handed thread?

Yeah but this is why we get more Kardashian and Teen Mom shows and less Hannibal and Firefly. What you say may be true, but catering to the common denominator is what is killing the game industry and the entertainment industry. There is nothing wrong with being unique as long as you are excelling at being unique. Otherwise all we get are PUBG clones for the rest of time.

This.

 

[Royal Deluxe]

This made me smile

 

[Jackelmyer]

Okay, you're technically correct. How about this then? The SI of stone is 7 by the way.

I'm pretty stuck on this granite thing. The more I look at this and think about AI changes that may include a zombie targeting blocks that support player made blocks, the more this type of example doesn't matter any more. And granite, being nothing more than a Stone block that turns the block above it into a Fully Supported block, opens up the entire subterranean into a POI ready biome. Which, I think would be awesome. Whatever Perlin issues they ran into, if this was incorporated into the Perlin system, SI wouldn't be an issue.

Sorry for the rehash on this one. It's just sticking with me and can't seem to shake it.

- - - Updated - - -

lol. There's always another option. X-D

 

[Aurelius]

Posts that show this intention clear are really rare. But posts with that subtext are more common.As Baserock Dweller you will see it very fast.

A couple of people on this forum have accused me of doing exactly this, but you can ask TSBX, Guppycur, Doombringer, or StompyNZ if I've ever held the animosity you speak of. They'll most likely tell you "no", and we've had some good, long, in-depth conversations on the topic. (Full disclosure - I'm all for zombies wrecking a base above, below, and inside-out. Along with other threats that will make life more challenging in any biome.)

My point being, people around here have a tendency to project waaaay too much. Especially when it comes to hot topics like "underground dwelling".

If you disagree with a stance someone holds, that's fine - but don't read into their posts that they are out to get you.

-A

 

[Jackelmyer]

A couple of people on this forum have accused me of doing exactly this, but you can ask TSBX, Guppycur, Doombringer, or StompyNZ if I've ever held the animosity you speak of. They'll most likely tell you "no", and we've had some good, long, in-depth conversations on the topic. (Full disclosure - I'm all for zombies wrecking a base above, below, and inside-out. Along with other threats that will make life more challenging in any biome.)
My point being, people around here have a tendency to project waaaay too much. Especially when it comes to hot topics like "underground dwelling".

If you disagree with a stance someone holds, that's fine - but don't read into their posts that they are out to get you.

-A

Fair. And agreed. But I'm with Janna and RD to a degree on this. There are "SOME"... Some... Who... cast in their messages and opinions, a spirit of killing off baserock dwellers game play. I think that's the best way I could explain it. And the spirit conveyed in said messages and opinions, can be pressed, in a very strong manner...

Which then also somewhat conveys a sense of "I'm telling people how they should play."... In a sense...

So I don't think it's purely projection. But yeah, some of it is people projecting...

meh.

 

[Royal Deluxe]

...My point being, people around here have a tendency to project waaaay too much. Especially when it comes to hot topics like "underground dwelling".

If you disagree with a stance someone holds, that's fine - but don't read into their posts that they are out to get you.

-A

I try.

And maybe more important i try to explain/show what it is that offend me.

Finally i like good Discussions that stay about the topic (and not about the people with a other opinion, even if its smetimes get me and make me countering on a equal niveau) So no problem for me, but i understand if people take it sometimes personell.

Subtext is more than Imagination, everybody (should) know that it exists. But much less people can understand it, and only a few people can write it purposely. Most people write and read it only subconsciously.

(Because of that i try to feel not so fast offended)

(And as not genuine English speaker its so much harder, so many details get lost during Translation)

 

[Jackelmyer]

I have been playing for a long time now and I know how to make zombies trivial. I will defeat any changes TFP make. I will just make a cage of bars surrounding my platform on all side and on top to defeat any climbing or jumping zombie. If I have to I will add spikes and traps on top. I will make more and thicker supports and surround them with more traps and spikes all the way up to the platform.
The only people that will get hurt by making such changes are new players. It might not be such a good idea to balance a game for people who have been playing for years if you do not want to frustrate new players.

Hey Madmole?

This guys comment in another thread kinda struck a good point. And you're comment about making rentable storage available from Factions a thing in the future popped into my head.

Will there be tiered storage purchase options and maybe one of the core starter quests will send players off to a faction?

I was thinking, a great way to give players a small way of feeling like they can recover if needed, is having tiered storage purchases. Maybe when you find the faction, they give you a 4 slot storage box for free. But larger storage can be rented or purchased.

This gives, especially new players, a way to squirrel away some wood, stone, fiber, and maybe a pinch of food and/or water. But very core essentials. There by giving the player a small sense of security that "hey, you can rebuild.".

Then if you want to store all your guns, loads of mixed concrete, etc, you gotta pay for that.

Just a thought.

 

[graphite]

Sorry for the rehash on this one. It's just sticking with me and can't seem to shake it.

I want to be considering the foundation/granite idea but my brain keeps thinking that it is its own structual system.

So instead of calculating once on a square metre it is calculating twice.

Just makes no sense resource wise.