PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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I’m going to give you the low down.
Alpha 17e could be released today. But if it was people would be REQUIRED to restart every other day or so. They would also have to ignore aspects of the game that are not fully implemented or that are currently under construction (such as Blood Moon night).

They would also have to endure occasional crashes and NREs spamming the console requiring a shutdown of the game.

They would have to play in Navezgane as Random Gen is still under construction.

And finally 99% of the bug reports they would send in would be of already known issues or of unfinished work that isn’t a bug it’s just not finished.

Now, everyone SAYS that they don’t care about that stuff and they just want to help find bugs but the truth is most people just want to play a game that works and they get angry when it doesn’t.

So the owners will determine when the game is to the point that frequent required wipes and restarts are not so frequent as they are now and that the known bugs are mostly fixed so that the reports that come in are actually helpful and not just spam of what they already know.

So when will that be? Any weekend going forward honestly. It’s completely in the minds and hearts of the owners. If I was the owner, I’d have unleashed it already and let you guys burn yourselves out on playing A17 Days 1-10 a couple dozen times by now.

The true owners are kinder than I am.
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This doesn't sound like something that was remotely close to release back in July like Joel said and that's what's disappointing.

 
Hey Roland! I have a question, now that zombies will have removed the option to use them for bones and fat, will be more animals wandering? Specially in mp
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Still being determined. The devs are aware of the issue of bones and fat now that zombie bodies are not harvestable. I don't know what their plan is.

 
This doesn't sound like something that was remotely close to release back in July like Joel said and that's what's disappointing.
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i think it was july or around there when they decided to update the engine and rework like one more major part of the game though iirc

if those forces hadn't come into play i think we would have seen a july/august release

 
i think it was july or around there when they decided to update the engine and rework like one more major part of the game though iirc
if those forces hadn't come into play i think we would have seen a july/august release
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Not necessarily. The engine update ended up having a small impact. I just think that Joel was very impressed with the things he was seeing in that particular video and in his exuberance he gave out a future date that he hoped they could hit. He was wrong.

But again-- not really. They could have put it out end of July. They could put it out right now. They can pretty much put it out as an experimental branch any time they want to. There is nothing technically holding them back from releasing A17-e other than their own judgement and philosophy about how polished they want the game to be for the experimental branch.

They could, if they had wanted too, push any of the past 133 builds out to experimental and allow people to play with it. There could have been an experimental branch of A17 back in January. But the owners don't believe in running their development that way. Other studios do. They don't.

 
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There are so many bugs BECAUSE they have been adding systems for over a year. The game has become very complex. Plus, as I said a lot of the work is finishing up and polishing systems that were implemented before the feature lock.
For example: faatal added the new pathing system. Now he is working to make sure it works in every instance of the game. Recently he was working on Blood Moon nights. The Blood Moon hordes were not placing the zombies on his new pathing grid so they would fall off the world. That is an important job to finish up before the community gets it.

Another example: faatal added the new vehicles and their physics. But there are a lot of smaller details involving the vehicles that also need to get done in support of the models existing in the game and being drivable. Nailing down the rules of exiting the vehicle was just one recent task that he was working on.

Another example: Randomly Generated Maps technically can be made and played in but there are problems with the process that Kinyajuu is working through and it would be confusing and frustrating to the average user to try and get a random map loaded and more frustrating to play it since it is still being worked on.

Another example: Attributes, skills, and perks were added months ago but just adding the names and the structure to the UI is not enough. Madmole has been working these past two weeks hooking everything up so players actually get the benefits and the descriptions are correct. Until two weeks ago the Intellect attribute was missing completely and no matter how long you played you could only ever craft brown level gear. There was no crafting progression at all.

So yes there is lots of work to be done and yes some of it could be done after A17e is released but would often necessitate wiping and starting fresh on the new build. For the average gamer that causes game fatigue and they get burned out on A17 before it even reaches stable.

So...yes there are enough bugs and tasks so that TFP could work on them into next year if they wanted to get them all before releasing. But I don’t think they will do that. They will get it to an acceptable level in the minds of the owners and then it will be released and they will keep working on all those bugs while we have the experimental version.

As I said, it could be released today in its current state if TFP wanted to do that so just because there is lots to do it doesn’t automatically mean 2019.

All we have from Rick is his statement a few weeks ago that releasing before the end of September was unrealistic.
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doesn’t automatically mean 2019

hmmm it means 31/12/2018 at 23.59PM

 
here's a thought .... what if you made it so the odds of a graveyard with coffins was 10% higher to spawn in a residential zone then you could just add bones,fat,and rotten flesh as coffin loot only ??? or say coffins and vultures were the only loot containers that would contain those items

 
I mean i cannot wait for the release either guys but, even alpha 16 experimental was barely playable if the devs that released that claim current state is full of bugs then, we should just wait. i think this alpha will be a more of a survival game rather than a building game. apart from all those haters i really liked the path u guys are in. keep up the good work ^^

 
Rabbits are digging when idle.

Zombie crawler climbs up into the air.

avoid fight with bear by riding on his back.
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Lol, just the mental image of these cracks me up.
The bears will be upset for revealing their weakness though. :upset:

 
Yes, Im happy to wait. No issues whatsoever with how things are developing, I work in IT so can appreciate the difficulties and challenges that can come out of no where even with all the planning in the world. I still have a great A16 to play and am grateful to the TFP for all the fun I have had so far, and will continue to have when a17 is released.

 
There are so many bugs BECAUSE they have been adding systems for over a year. The game has become very complex. Plus, as I said a lot of the work is finishing up and polishing systems that were implemented before the feature lock.
For example: faatal added the new pathing system. Now he is working to make sure it works in every instance of the game. Recently he was working on Blood Moon nights. The Blood Moon hordes were not placing the zombies on his new pathing grid so they would fall off the world. That is an important job to finish up before the community gets it.

Another example: faatal added the new vehicles and their physics. But there are a lot of smaller details involving the vehicles that also need to get done in support of the models existing in the game and being drivable. Nailing down the rules of exiting the vehicle was just one recent task that he was working on.

Another example: Randomly Generated Maps technically can be made and played in but there are problems with the process that Kinyajuu is working through and it would be confusing and frustrating to the average user to try and get a random map loaded and more frustrating to play it since it is still being worked on.

Another example: Attributes, skills, and perks were added months ago but just adding the names and the structure to the UI is not enough. Madmole has been working these past two weeks hooking everything up so players actually get the benefits and the descriptions are correct. Until two weeks ago the Intellect attribute was missing completely and no matter how long you played you could only ever craft brown level gear. There was no crafting progression at all.

So yes there is lots of work to be done and yes some of it could be done after A17e is released but would often necessitate wiping and starting fresh on the new build. For the average gamer that causes game fatigue and they get burned out on A17 before it even reaches stable.

So...yes there are enough bugs and tasks so that TFP could work on them into next year if they wanted to get them all before releasing. But I don’t think they will do that. They will get it to an acceptable level in the minds of the owners and then it will be released and they will keep working on all those bugs while we have the experimental version.

As I said, it could be released today in its current state if TFP wanted to do that so just because there is lots to do it doesn’t automatically mean 2019.

All we have from Rick is his statement a few weeks ago that releasing before the end of September was unrealistic.
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Yeah, I'm good with waiting. I enjoy seeing the bugs in an experimental build, but I would like it to be playable.

- - - Updated - - -

Here are some examples of bugs assigned to me that I don't think need fixing for A17e:
Zombie dogs have a chance of remaining standing on death.

4x4 defies physics when parked on a drawbridge (sometimes works with other vehicles).

Zombie pathing issue through broken style blocks.

If a player logs out of a game whilst on a bicycle etc, the bike will remain uprigh.

Rabbits are digging when idle.

Zombie crawler climbs up into the air.

avoid fight with bear by riding on his back.

There are many more like that. These are cosmetic or would not majorly effect gameplay, so they can wait while important gameplay features or bugs get addressed.
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We need craftable saddles for the bears

 
I’m going to give you the low down.
Alpha 17e could be released today. But if it was people would be REQUIRED to restart every other day or so. They would also have to ignore aspects of the game that are not fully implemented or that are currently under construction (such as Blood Moon night).

They would also have to endure occasional crashes and NREs spamming the console requiring a shutdown of the game.

They would have to play in Navezgane as Random Gen is still under construction.

And finally 99% of the bug reports they would send in would be of already known issues or of unfinished work that isn’t a bug it’s just not finished.

Now, everyone SAYS that they don’t care about that stuff and they just want to help find bugs but the truth is most people just want to play a game that works and they get angry when it doesn’t.

So the owners will determine when the game is to the point that frequent required wipes and restarts are not so frequent as they are now and that the known bugs are mostly fixed so that the reports that come in are actually helpful and not just spam of what they already know.

So when will that be? Any weekend going forward honestly. It’s completely in the minds and hearts of the owners. If I was the owner, I’d have unleashed it already and let you guys burn yourselves out on playing A17 Days 1-10 a couple dozen times by now.

The true owners are kinder than I am.
Click to expand...
Let Them take their time, i can wait. I would rather have a polished product than a bug ridden POS. Haters gonna hate. Let it roll off, they are never happy. Keep up the good work Roland.

 
Guys I would like to share with you the relief I have when reading the developers to say what are the errors they are working on, that is very good, it reassures me that they are working to give us something better, sometimes we go crazy and a little irritating with the comments wanting to know a release date, but the news that you leave the developers is something sobueno, like a soup of mom in the winter, thanks for the news, it would be nice to have daily news to reassure the crowd, show that they are doing a great job to give us the best survival game of the present and candidate to be a triple A game, thank you Faatal, Ronald, MM, Jaz, Guzz and sorry if I misspell their names and if I forget someone, but thanks guys

 
Wow. Those are some of the coolest updates on the state of a game I've seen. And not from a perspective of "Are they even working on anything" or "Can I gleam a release date out of this?".

But from a perspective of getting a glimpse to the level of detail you guys are working at. That's pretty cool to see.

Like you said Roland, 17e can release whenever. Especially true as an experimental. And with so much change going into A17, the level of detail or... Maybe put another way... What you guys may consider major and minor issues holding up a release, is really interesting to see.

YOU DID NOT SAY ANY ONE THING WAS A RELEASE HOLD UP. lol. Sorry for the caps. But I get that. Clearly get that.

But faatal's list of things he's working on is kinda telling.

Bike remains standing? Yeah, I'd expect something like that in A16 or earlier.

Crawlers crawling into the air? Guess it depends on from a wall/object or just standing in open space. The prior i think happened in A16 and earlier or at least to a degree.

You guys really seem to be putting some polish on A17. Which, I could be, probably am, being overly presumptuous. But still, it's cool to see. So thanks for all of that. Didn't have to share so much. But thanks just the same.

Was a cool day for update details. Nice.

P.S. also appreciate the hold up of the release to get a cleaner, and less map restart prone version out from the get go of A17. I think some may not know or some may have forgotten all the severe complaining that went into having to restart a game especially because they didn't realize their game had been updated and they corrupted their prior map. Even on the experimental branch, people would go up in arms. I'm a big stability fan. So thanks for the current philosophy.

 
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I have been & still am fine with the state of things.

But wanted to say, "Thank you!" to Roland & faatal for the info. I found it quite informative and interesting.

Much appreciated. :)

 
With the new ragdoll knockdowns, will we still experience knocking a zombie over only to have their head disappear into an adjacent block? Super annoying.

 
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