PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Laz Man]

Good deal. I would never work on a system that dumbed down gameplay. That's just not my style.


Yes, and we're looking into the animation speed stuff as things come online.

Here is the million dollar question.........

If i remember correctly, In the current skill system, harvest yield and/or stamia consumption when using certain types of tools (stone vs iron vs steel) is tied to each relative skill point. This was done to balance game play.

Conceptually, with animation speed modifications, could we overhaul the skill point system to increase swing speed instead of stamina drain? It always bugged me how stone tools could be more efficient stamina wise when compared to iron or steel just because you didnt have the appropriate skill point allocation. This was always unintuitive and immersion breaking to me. Speed modification seems like the better way to go.

Edit: Another option is add tradtional, STR, INT, DEX, etc. Modifers to the game, instead of relying on skills and perks for everything.

 

[Aldranon]

It's not the complexity of the underlying system that worries me, it's the UI that goes along with it.
The Bethesda quest system for fallout 4 is damn near identical to the quest system for fallout 3. The reason fallout 4 has been lambasted by the community is for how the player interacts with that system. Limited options for quest dialogue forces a limited choice of responses.

As superficial as the response text was, the real tragedy was it didn't matter what you did! It was all to kill time and pretend something was happening.

--------------

So at least my idea is to add what you did prior to the conversation matters. For example if your Rep for "Bandit's-r-Us" is low from doing missions or even shooting some of them and your Game Stage (call it a Badass rating) is low, they will just kill you 90% of the time

But If your Badass rating is high enough, they would be willing to talk and try to defuse a potential situation where a lot of their gang dies.

The game has to find out what the NPC wants and how bad do they want it. Then they will start talking, shooting or running.

 

[Gazz]

Conceptually, with animation speed modifications, could we overhaul the skill point system to increase swing speed instead of stamina drain? It always bugged me how stone tools could be more efficient stamina wise when compared to iron or steel just because you didnt have the appropriate skill point allocation. This was always unintuitive and immersion breaking to me. Speed modification seems like the better way to go.

That would be possible. It just wasn't an option before.

With melee stuff there's the problem of stun lock to consider, though...

 

[GrifterMan]

I would imagine Laz that this whole revamp of skills and all its associated "stuff" has taken an enormous amount of Pimps brainwave function manhours to ponder, poke, peruse, pontificate and otherwise muck-around with as of late.

But since they seem to be systematically altering the game modules to suit an overriding scheme (theme?), I am mostly confident that a better solution is in the immediate future for 7DTD.

It is an interesting nut to crack for sure. More or less scraping a major subsystem wasn't done lightly I am certain. Color me curious.

As for me, I would like to see another pass at adding new sounds in the game; environment (birds, wind, terrain, etc.), zeds, PCs. No great rush, but some new terror-inducing sounds that make you wonder WTF? would be awesome.

- - - Updated - - -

That would be possible. It just wasn't an option before.
With melee stuff there's the problem of stun lock to consider, though...

Ah... cool. Options are always nice!

 

[Aldranon]

No great rush, but some new terror-inducing sounds that make you wonder WTF? would be awesome.

If the scary sounds are backed up by scary things in the game that are the source of the sound then heck yeah! Otherwise its counter scary after hearing them all night.

If a Radiated Zombie Bear (my creation?) made a bone chilling roar AND it was relatively near, then THAT would be piss your pants scary!

 

[Laz Man]

That would be possible. It just wasn't an option before.
With melee stuff there's the problem of stun lock to consider, though...

If you can program in diminishing results then infinite stun lock can be managed.

 

[meganoth]

The Jeep is already much improved over what was shown. faatal has been hard at work.

Uh, 5 tires? 6? Don't say 7 tires! If it is 7 tires, that would be, really, I can't describe it in words,... . Probably it's only 5, right?

:smile-new:

 

[Gamida]

Uh, 5 tires? 6? Don't say 7 tires! If it is 7 tires, that would be, really, I can't describe it in words,... . Probably it's only 5, right?

:smile-new:

no silly, the cup holder now can hold a larger 16oz cup and it has those lady silhouette mudflaps like on the big boy trucks

 

[Gamida]

Hey Madmole,

When you find out for sure what the passenger count will be in the Jeep are you going to give us a shout out or will you keep it as a secret teaser for A17 Experimental?

 

[Kamikaze]

So crying of thousand babies about AI was partially listened.

 

[sillls]

Well, it works. Don't think we would have much issue shipping it. Need to keep you from exiting too far above ground and falling to death, flying out of world boundary, stop from going under water and maybe on blood moon it won't get off the ground, so you can't simply float above the zombies.

You know. At first I thought you were kidding about introducing an airship into 7D2D. But now that I think about it. The airship would be a great idea.

For one thing. This is the first game IMO that is working on distance recognition. Being able to see things like trees and buildings far away from you. Other games make those objects bleep out once the player gets far enough away. But not this one!

It's still WIP but once that's in. The airship would allow the player to really appreciate all the hard work that TFP's have put in the game.

I do have some questions for you:

1. When you fly it, will it be like all one person view from the pilot seat, or can you get up and walk around in it as it's moving along?

2. Will other player be able to come aboard and sail the sky's with you?

3. Will it have the option of upgrades?

4. Can you mount weapons?

5. Will you be able land on it using a gyrocopter?

6. Will there be airship ports for it to dock at?

7. How will it be powered?

- - - Updated - - -

Hi Madmole!

That new programmer Fatal is a really cool guy.

 

[Gazz]

I wouldn't get my hopes up for a vanilla airship.

It is not a bad test object for the gyrocopter (which is a very badly kept secret) so it's not totally wasted effort but since the thing has no model (a few geometric shapes thrown together...) I wouldn't expect it to show up in vanilla.

If you can program in diminishing results then infinite stun lock can be managed.

If you can interrupt a zombie's animation then there isn't much you can do like with a "stun immunity" buff.

 

[faatal]

1. When you fly it, will it be like all one person view from the pilot seat, or can you get up and walk around in it as it's moving along?

2. Will other player be able to come aboard and sail the sky's with you?

3. Will it have the option of upgrades?

4. Can you mount weapons?

5. Will you be able land on it using a gyrocopter?

6. Will there be airship ports for it to dock at?

7. How will it be powered?

That new programmer Fatal is a really cool guy.

1,2. It works like all vehicles in that you have a driver seat you sit it and possibly passenger seats others would sit in. The camera follows behind the center of vehicle, which you can rotate like every vehicle.

3. Should have upgrade slots like other vehicles and guns will.

4. Not yet. Doubt that tech will be in A17.

5. It has normal collision shapes, so you could stand on it like any vehicle and probably land on it. When it moves you might slip off. Have to test that.

6. Probably not. You just move it near ground and hit 'e' to exit like every vehicle. Same to enter (get near, look at, 'e').

7. Magic, dark matter, squirrels? Gas I would suppose.

Thx!

 

[petruherro]

[...]when they see the new pathing algorithm[...]

( ͡°( ͡° ͜ʖ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)ʖ ͡°) ͡°)

 

[Guppycur]

Gazz, anything in there to force a knockback on the zeds? I thought there was now, but alas, so I'm hoping it makes it into 17.

 

[fragtzack]

1,2. It works like all vehicles in that you have a driver seat you sit it and possibly passenger seats others would sit in. The camera follows behind the center of vehicle, which you can rotate like every vehicle.3. Should have upgrade slots like other vehicles and guns will.

4. Not yet. Doubt that tech will be in A17.

5. It has normal collision shapes, so you could stand on it like any vehicle and probably land on it. When it moves you might slip off. Have to test that.

6. Probably not. You just move it near ground and hit 'e' to exit like every vehicle. Same to enter (get near, look at, 'e').

7. Magic, dark matter, squirrels? Gas I would suppose.

Thx!

The gyro-copter and the airship would both be extremely unrealistic in an apocalypse. The helium or what ever gas obtained for an airship would be extremely difficult for 1 person to find and deliver to an airship ready for inflating. Those types of activities involves teams of people.

As for a gyro-copter, copters are extremely difficult to fly even without an apocalypse environment. Without AI assistance, 999 out of 1000 people without prior experience/training would crash any sort of copter with in minutes(most seconds) of taking off. Modern advances in computer assisted AI flying makes flying copters easier and more stable, but obtaining a computer to fly a specific home grown gyrocopter in an apocalypse just would not be feasible as AI assistance computers for flight are very specific for given airframe model.

What would be slightly realistic in an apocalypse would be an ultra-light type aircraft. Think of like a hang-glider with an engine. Or just take existing mini-bike and able to mod it with wings. Something small, light, slow, very limited carry ability and not flyable in adverse weather conditions.

Whatever the pimps do with flying vehicle in game, I hope that you make the thing hard to obtain/build and hard to fly. Make it risky for people to take to the sky as real life does. Got faith in the pimps to make what ever is put in to be fun, just consider the real life aspects of flying in an apocalypse please.

 

[sillls]

1,2. It works like all vehicles in that you have a driver seat you sit it and possibly passenger seats others would sit in. The camera follows behind the center of vehicle, which you can rotate like every vehicle.3. Should have upgrade slots like other vehicles and guns will.

4. Not yet. Doubt that tech will be in A17.

5. It has normal collision shapes, so you could stand on it like any vehicle and probably land on it. When it moves you might slip off. Have to test that.

6. Probably not. You just move it near ground and hit 'e' to exit like every vehicle. Same to enter (get near, look at, 'e').

7. Magic, dark matter, squirrels? Gas I would suppose.

Thx!

Thanks for the info.

Hate to tell you this but there are no squirrels in 7D2D. But magic and dark matter may be good options. Haha.

Any chance that you might change your mind about making it bigger so it would handle like a ship?

That would be so cool. It has a different feel to it, you know what I mean?

Not like floating in mid air like in God mode but really sailing in the sky.

 

[saintones]

Haha!

Just don't read any further and have a good night....

Roland,

Please stop your making my stomach hurt from lol'ing x3

 

[ZombieHorde]

Yeah but some people like broken outdated concepts because of nostalgia or something. F.E., Sharp sticks, broken menus. I imagine some will even complain when they see the new pathing algorithm. OMG these zombies aren't getting stuck on stuff, fix it!!! We like the ones that spin circles and can't reach the player 90% of the time.

Oh yes yes yes! PLEASE don't 'fix' it if you stop them from spinning and being down-right more annoying than threatening.

And thank you for answering a big question of mine (and I know a lot of others) about AI in this upcoming Alpha.

 

[GrifterMan]

And thank you for answering a big question of mine (and I know a lot of others) about AI in this upcoming Alpha.

Agreed Joel - thanks for a huge boost of awesome sauce. Nice to know the AI is ISO-approved! :tickled_pink: