PC Decline in 7 Days Twitch Streamers

Nobody is being ignored. There have been lots of changes since 17.0 and there are likely going to be more. Also, not obeying the will of the complainers is not the same thing as ignoring them. Their desires for LBD have been heard and considered. Time will tell whether TFP decides to make compromises in that direction or not. But they haven't ignored those requests.
I understand that speeding through the progression and enjoying a system where you get better at something by doing that action are two separate issues. I know that there is enjoyment and rewarding feelings from seeing the skills progress through whatever skill you are practicing. I would not be opposed to a return of that system. I am not defending the new system at the expense of the old whatever you might believe. I can happily play organically under both systems.

My defensive stance has consistently been that the new system is also a legitimate and fun system for many people just as the last system was. I disagree strongly that the game is now predetermined and linear and I see the style of play that would lead to always doing the same exact things at the exact same time and exact same level as being extreme and not indicative of the majority of players. I understand that any system is not going to be fun for some but fun for others.

I do understand what you mean by being able to get started on improvement in specific skills from Day 1 by seeing that skill bar start progressing as you performed those actions. The difference that I see is that with LBD you are spending the xp as you earn it. You loot and earn xp and it gets dumped immediately into the looting skill. In the current system you are looting and you gain xp into a central pool until it culminates into a point that can then be spent on....whatever you want. Some see the immediate and automatic spending of the xp in the specific area as more fun and others see the saving up of the xp and conversion of it into a point that can be spent however they wish as more fun. Others are happy with both.

Maybe it isn't that people aren't understanding you. Maybe they do understand and they STILL find their fun in an alternate fashion. The problem with some of the complainers is they are under the misguided opinion that those who don't believe as they do must be 1) stupid 2) fanbois 3) lazy 4) unable to understand the positive aspects of LBD 5) All of the above.

Again, I wouldn't be upset in the least if they added the skills back in and made them LBD. I would be overjoyed to not have to mod out the level gates. I'm not fighting against those ideas. I'm pushing back against the narrative being pushed that the entire playerbase is against A17 and that the game is going down the tubes because of A17.
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Roland if u mod out level gates what do u do about vehicles? Most of them would be pointless without gates. This is the biggest downside of A17 perks to me. I wish the vehicles needed schematics and intellect... not necessarily a perk. Schematic for better vehicles could be super rare.

 
Roland if u mod out level gates what do u do about vehicles? Most of them would be pointless without gates. This is the biggest downside of A17 perks to me. I wish the vehicles needed schematics and intellect... not necessarily a perk. Schematic for better vehicles could be super rare.
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The vanilla vehicle system is horrible. I'm waging a war against it in my mod. Make gas truly scarce. No crafting of vehicles from stupid materials. Repair being the key logic. Vehicles break down easily. You can find working ones. Gas siphoning system. Large variety. Etc.

 
Interesting how a topic for "streamers are leaving" turned into a discussion about the perk system. On that note:

I feel like the LBD vs gated is forgetting that A16.4 was not a purely LBD system. It was a mix of LBD and gates. And you could take your skill points after getting the XP to crack a new level and spend them on ...... (wait for it)........the LBD if you wanted!!!!! Yes folks! Dont want to improve frames to get those last 5 levels of crafting so you can start making concrete? Buy them out! Dont want to waste skill points on something you can get for free (well, by working hard and grinding)? Save your points for the later!

So many choices.

I remember the Auger was the gamechanger. Dig for 3 days straight gathering ore of everything. The digging power leveled you, and gave you more skill points, to then spend on unlocking the gates you were getting to through digging. All while the digging built up your mining perk system.

A17, now the 'easy' thing to do is farm Zed kills. And from the sounds of it, the perk system has much higher level requirements for the gated stuff? And alot more items gated that used to be schematic based?

Sounds like A17 is a true gate system, and A16 was a hybrid.

Meh. The issue must be about balancing. And it sounds more like it gets closer to balanced for one playstyle as it gets farther from being balanced for a different play style. I dont envy the devs. Or maybe I dont envy the people who's playstyle gets trashed from picking sides?

Hope its not my side that gets trashed. :(

 
i dont mind that my thread got derailed as its been a pretty positive and friendly convo for the most part which is great and ive been enjoying reading it every day.

im starting a new thread for streamers to post their infos so i can follow them and go watch =)

 
i dont mind that my thread got derailed as its been a pretty positive and friendly convo for the most part which is great and ive been enjoying reading it every day.
im starting a new thread for streamers to post their infos so i can follow them and go watch =)
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I have been enjoying it as well, i didn't start playing 7D2D until 16.4 right before Alpha 17 came out (humble bundle) and I've just been playing that until i get a couple plays through and start alpha 17. That being said, i watch a bit of youtubers play as it is not only new and entertaining for me but i get to see how people try different play styles. Lurking the forums and getting insight from the vets while reading what people do and do not like is pretty interesting because i have not yet played alpha 17 and have no idea if i will like it or not. Seeing Kage, PoppaTot, and Capp on the forums is also really cool because you get to see what they really think.

I will definitely be looking for your streamer thread.

Cheers.

 
It really isn't that interesting... half of the topics here turn into perk system discussions.
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Yeh, 'cause it sucks. =)

And no one, LITERALLY NO ONE, likes it, and tfp will fail as a company as a result.

/runs away

 
I wouldn't say that I hate them. I just find them dull. It's very flat. The lack of tree structure hinders the sense of specializing in anything.

I know that you can essentially lump all of the old skills together, and you would just end up with what we have. Even with knowing this though, it still does not help. I guess what I really liked about the old system was the feeling of constant progression. The concept of LBD I enjoyed, but I think it was this quality that came with it that I really want.

I guess I would rather build myself up very slowly, less than 1% even, as long as it happens all the time. With the new system, I feel like I suck for a long time then finally I improve magically. I suppose what would make it better for me would be to divide up those perks into smaller stages and just earn points more often. I think I would have a little more control over the paths I chose as well. A point placed into something that you weren't quite sure about yet wouldn't be so detrimental.

 
Roland if u mod out level gates what do u do about vehicles? Most of them would be pointless without gates. This is the biggest downside of A17 perks to me. I wish the vehicles needed schematics and intellect... not necessarily a perk. Schematic for better vehicles could be super rare.
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Well, I agree that with no level gates there should either be a stiffer price on the better vehicles or as you say make them subject to RNG and use schematics to unlock them. For myself, I'm not super concerned as I like to try different things. I might try going for a gyrocopter for early game and see how that changes the game but even if it is OP I'm not going to do that every time since I like variety.

I don't think level gates should be just removed for the default game. They would need to balance things to keep them paced out and give each vehicle it's chance in the spotlight but for my own personal game it is fine for testing things out and trying out new stuff without having to be level 120. :) I guess easier would be to just cm myself a gyrocopter but I like the process of spending the points to learn it and then gather the mats and craft it.

 
It really isn't that interesting... half of the topics here turn into perk system discussions.
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I thought half the topics were about RWG ? So i did follow the wrong 20 people argueing with 4 other people ? :chuncky:

Ya, mostly the same 20 people vs mostly the same 4 people defending it. I have yet to hear any actual reason or facts from the people defending the perk system. Their main argument is that the system is similar in the way that we perk up. You actually never see "The new perk system is good because --blank--" It is always "I am still enjoying a17" or "It is good" those are not reasons or facts supporting it..
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I didn't say scavenging shouldn't be part of the game but it's clearly the part with the highest risk of not surviving. Therefore, one would assume with a realistic course of the game that one makes only as much use of it as absolutely necessary. Of course, that's not what the players do. They go to the POIs because they just enjoy it.
You don't have to take that too seriously, but I think it is funny when people tell you it's a survival game and then happily run into the arms of the zombies that should be the main threat in this game. :)
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In reality survivors (waking up naked on the road side) would have no choice, happy or not. They would have to scavenge constantly, especially for food but also useable stuff that they couldn't produce themselves.

I find it strange that you bring up reality but think scavening is not necessary because of the absolutely unrealistic possibility to dig up stones and ore from the ground and practically build everything from that (except food) and get food from the garden every 3 days. You are in the same make-believe wold than everyone else and kidding yourself if you think you act like in reality.

Late EDIT: You might have a valid point though that you have found a strategy that may be safer and easier than others. A similar strategy was possible in A16 too, by the way.

 
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Its not really like that, its more 50/50 percent, even if you consider latest steam reviews. Mixed means: mixed. There are people who like the recent changes and some dont.View attachment 27789
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The trick is to actually read the reviews rather than taking them at face value. Most of the positive reviews complain about the same few aspects of Alpha 17 as the negative reviews.

 
A fair point that, since I know myself I did much the same. I tend to peter out once the next Alpha is announced as imminent, given the need to wipe games. Perhaps both factors were in play (the overall delay, and the delay between first announcement and release).
The inherent flaw in this whole thread I think, is it's necessarily trying to divine motive for a decline in streamer numbers, rather than simply asserting whether that's happened or not. Ultimately, the only way to answer the OP's question would be to poll all the A16 streamers and ask them whether they stream A17 and if not, why not. On that score, I wouldn't have the first clue (though I've been reading the posts of those claiming to be streamers here), since it's just not a phenomena I've ever indulged in.
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I agree on both your points. Myself and my husband (who is a streamer) and all our steam friends stopped playing A16 because we were expecting a wipe for A17 which happened many months after we assumed it would.

Obviously I can't divine the motive for other streamers, but I can tell you my husband no longer players 7DtD because he says it's not fun anymore. He felt very strongly against the new stamina system, the loss of LBD, the loss of zombie loot and carcasses that you could chop up, and the microstutter when strafing.

As for the other issues that keep cropping up in the forum...had he continued to play, I predict he would have been annoyed at the AI too, though I don't think he would have cared about the lack of RNG (I'm the looter, he's the crafter).

 
I'm more looking for a base A17x with just the progression system reverted. If schematics/book and parts could be added that would be awesome. I would never play another game if all that AND upgrading vehicles parts were added.
To me, the perfect game is A16.4 with the updated graphics, POIs, and vehicles of A17.
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Same, except, I also like the new concept of sneaking.

 
Obviously I can't divine the motive for other streamers, but I can tell you my husband no longer players 7DtD because he says it's not fun anymore. He felt very strongly against the new stamina system, the loss of LBD, the loss of zombie loot and carcasses that you could chop up, and the microstutter when strafing.
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Since this thread is full of different topics, something on the new stamina/health system and dp.

I was very happy that in A17 medicine finally became useful and that the concept of stamina was implemented into the game. Didn't have time to test things much at A17 but it seemed like it was even worth investing in agility in A17.0. Two updates later not so much, because of the backlash. Same with the death penalty - overall it achieves its goal of making death something that the player wants to avoid. It stacked up to max 1/2 of your attributes. Right now it only seems to penalize 1 point, no matter what. Almost negligible.

What's up with half-baking things? :/

 
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If you want to talk about skill trees....Path of Exile. Now there is an AWESOME skill tree.
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oh you mean static poe? poe is so boring after 3 years its the same rutine you take each time you level up again. AS a Hardcore players its not very fun to get insta shotted by random encounters right becus someone random wanted to have mob eplode on freeze on chaos etc. sure the game is playable with watching a tv but the grind at maps and the boring always get more health isnt much fun.

poe skill tree is huge yet so naked! you think you but you dont.

 
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