Cut Questable POIs to 50% of all POIs

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Grandpa Minion said:
That would still allow many quest options and allow players to build in prefabs without effecting the other players ability to complete quest.
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That depends on players respecting the "don't build in questable locations" -rule by themselves. They don't respect that, otherwise the issue wouldn't exist. The mod to block it wouldn't exist. All a reduction in numbers achieves, is less questable POIs for all.

People are taking over questable POIs, probably because they are decently reinforced from the get go. Chop down a ladder and you are safe. Remnants, the current "non-questable" design, are usually a complete ■■■■ show in regards to defense; you're basically having to build an entire base, and still risk some unknown leaks.

Unless you actually block it, people will still choose the quest sites, because the quest sites are better for the purpose.

If you plan on making every other Dishong Tower non-questable, just the exact same POI otherwise: how do you guarantee that the remaining one isn't taken over? How would you even tell players which one is "allowed" to be taken over; if they don't know which is questable by some indication, they might just take over the questable one and leave the useless non-questable one untouched?
 
Grandpa Minion said:
Traders will not give a quest to non-questable prefabs that is already guaranteed
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And what, if any, does that have to do with me, rolling into a new city, looking for a base location?
Even if I do go to the trader, and happen to have unlocked tier 5s by then, the random selection will tell me 5 targets "I shouldn't build at".
Is the Dishong in the middle of the city on the list, or not? I would not know, I only got 5 random (non-)targets.

When I take it over, I won't even know if I took over a quest POI or not. If I did, we now have MY Dishong, and a non-questable Dishong in the next town. No Dishongs for anyone to quest at.
 
theFlu said:
And what, if any, does that have to do with me
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"me" is half the issue 7d2d is a "we" game..
Like it or not the trader quest system introduced in Alpha 17 had a significant impact on 7 Days to Die's gameplay and is often cited as a major turning point that divided the community.

Here's how it changed the game:

Fundamental Shift in Gameplay Flow:
Before A17, the game was primarily about organic exploration and scavenging.
Alpha 17 added trader quests- that essentially created a more structured MMO-style progression system.
Players went from exploring wherever they wanted to following quest markers to specific Points of Interest (POIs).

Impact on Exploration and Discovery:
Pre-A17: Players naturally explored the world stumbling upon locations organically...
Post-A17: The game began guiding players to specific locations through quest objectives making exploration feel more directed but potentially less spontaneous.

Economic Changes:
The quest system fundamentally altered the game's economy, shifing players to focus toward trader interactions as a primary source of progression and economy rather than pure scavenging and crafting.

Progression Structure:
The quest system introduced tiered progression that some players felt was too linear compared to the more open-ended survival experience of earlier alphas.
Players accumulate tier points to unlock higher-tier traders and missions creating a more structured but arguably less flexible advancement path.

Community Reception:
Many veteran players since feel this change made 7D2D feel less like a pure sandbox survival game and more like a quest-driven RPG.
The organic emergent gameplay that characterized earlier alphas was replaced with a more guided experience that some felt reduced the game's unique identity as an open-world survival experience.

The trader quest system essentially transformed 7D2D from a "make your own adventure" survival game into something with more structured objectives which explains why many players consider A16 the last "pure" version of the original vision the game had.

MY OVERALL OPINION:
reducing the amount of quest prefabs will eliminate alot of the issues that the quest system caused since it was incorporated in a17.
 
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Grandpa Minion said:
reducing the amount of quest prefabs will eliminate alot of the issues that the quest system caused since it was incorporated in a17.
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While you've now described a completely different objective, it doesn't really change the effectiveness of your suggestion. Note, I don't care about your motives, I'm just trying to help you fine-tune your suggestion into something that would have a desired effect.

Since you are no longer arguing that it'd be effective at freeing up quest POIs, I'll assume you've now accepted that it wouldn't. Unless you wish to correct me; feel free of course.

There's plenty of things pushing players towards the Quest system, and none that would draw away from it; so much so that it feels as the Only Way To Play. It's a common sentiment, and a bloody annoying design in my opinion.
If you want to start remotely addressing the lure of quests, you'd have to change them in many ways; one easy example is the tier progression. Even if you'd like to skip questing at any point, you'll be losing tier progress that you would otherwise get; and will have to "grind it out" later on.

Another, more subtle thing would be to limit the resources offered during quests - if you need to get your meds, ammo and/or drinks from non-quest sources, you'll end up with time spent elsewhere. That alone might feel like a nice change of pace, and having that as a design would allow for rebalancing of the quest system - you might not require 10 quests per tier, you might get away with one or two. As long as a player would actually have to prep for it.

But, proposing literally less questable POIs in the world changes none of that. The quests remain the way to go, they only become even more monotonous due to less variance, and travel distances get increased. That's not enough to push people away from questing, as there's practically nothing else to Do in the game.

You're a PvP player; you should be able to predict people's behaviour, and play the people. You must see that what you suggest isn't going to change anything?
 
Grandpa Minion said:
the recommendation i made is not because of pvp...
start with the the simple basics so your not so confused about it.
A) How many trader quests did a16 and prior have?
B) Why do so many people believe a16 and prior was a better version of the game than what it is today?
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A) I don't recall any.

B) That is hard to say; We enter the realm of opinion.

IMO, the available stats don't back up the notion that A16 was a "better" game, overall. The game's positive rating appears to have soared starting with A18 and started to dip a little with V1.0 and a bunch in V2.0 down to around A16's level. I suspect those who are fond of A16 are in two camps: (1) they liked LBD, or (2) they feel survival was harder. A lack of quests could figure into the latter.

A no-quest game has a niche following among players, including myself. I think you're the only one I've read suggesting that 50% quests represents an improvement, though I posted a way you could try it.
 
Kyoji said:
Remnant POIs take up spots in tiles that would otherwise be taken up by Questable POIs. So the chance of getting a Questable POI on a map has lowered in the RWG to add more remnant POIs to increase performance. It's been stated by the developers.
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That's not really the same thing as removing them. <shrug>
Post automatically merged:

Grandpa Minion said:
"me" is half the issue 7d2d is a "we" game..
Like it or not the trader quest system introduced in Alpha 17 had a significant impact on 7 Days to Die's gameplay and is often cited as a major turning point that divided the community.

Here's how it changed the game:

Fundamental Shift in Gameplay Flow:
Before A17, the game was primarily about organic exploration and scavenging.
Alpha 17 added trader quests- that essentially created a more structured MMO-style progression system.
Players went from exploring wherever they wanted to following quest markers to specific Points of Interest (POIs).

Impact on Exploration and Discovery:
Pre-A17: Players naturally explored the world stumbling upon locations organically...
Post-A17: The game began guiding players to specific locations through quest objectives making exploration feel more directed but potentially less spontaneous.

Economic Changes:
The quest system fundamentally altered the game's economy, shifing players to focus toward trader interactions as a primary source of progression and economy rather than pure scavenging and crafting.

Progression Structure:
The quest system introduced tiered progression that some players felt was too linear compared to the more open-ended survival experience of earlier alphas.
Players accumulate tier points to unlock higher-tier traders and missions creating a more structured but arguably less flexible advancement path.

Community Reception:
Many veteran players since feel this change made 7D2D feel less like a pure sandbox survival game and more like a quest-driven RPG.
The organic emergent gameplay that characterized earlier alphas was replaced with a more guided experience that some felt reduced the game's unique identity as an open-world survival experience.

The trader quest system essentially transformed 7D2D from a "make your own adventure" survival game into something with more structured objectives which explains why many players consider A16 the last "pure" version of the original vision the game had.

MY OVERALL OPINION:
reducing the amount of quest prefabs will eliminate alot of the issues that the quest system caused since it was incorporated in a17.
Click to expand...
We finally have your actual issue. You don't like quests. You could have just started with that rather than smokescreen it like Roland said. You tried to make it seem like it's all about bases being reset even though that can't happen with LCB, and then you tried to make it seem like by limiting how many POI can be quested, you'd somehow make it so people aren't taking over questable POI, which wouldn't work by limiting questable POI. Now, you finally get to what you actually don't like - quests. You should have just started with that instead of trying to hide behind other things just because you didn't want to have people disagree because... guess what... many people like quests and you know they do.
 
Kalen said:
Of course its true.... good thing it doesn't happen unless you let it happen
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yep, and as soon as you "don't let it happen" player B comes along to quest there and is unable to because you was to greedy and because "you didnt let it happen"
..its all your fault man you should be banned.
 
Grandpa Minion said:
yep, and as soon as you "don't let it happen" player B comes along to quest there and is unable to because you was to greedy and because "you didnt let it happen"
..its all your fault man you should be banned.
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The odds of that happening are incredibly small.... and if it does happen, its easily corrected.
 
A 16k map can have thousands of POI on it, depending on the size of your towns and how many towns you have. Yes, RWG doesn't make 16k, but there are options available to make that size map. With that many POI, the chances you are blocking someone are minimal, even when you allow so many players in the game at once. If you limit land claims to 1 per player, the chances of it being in the way is very low. If someone is putting them on tier 5 POI, just make that a server rule that they can't. Lower tier POI will appear enough times on the map that it won't matter. And in the end, there are only a limited number of POI that are important to people. If every Moe's store POI is blocked, no one is likely to care. That's going to be true for most POI. Only specific ones - bookstores, tier 5s, Bob's Boars, etc. - really matter to people if they can or can't get a quest there. Most won't even know if the reason they aren't getting a quest somewhere is because it's blocked or just RNG anyhow. Set max quests per day to 1 and you won't even have people noticing.

In short, there are plenty of options available that don't require ruining the game for everyone who likes questing and won't leave half the POI stuff you just ignore.
 
Grandpa Minion said:
yep, and as soon as you "don't let it happen" player B comes along to quest there and is unable to because you was to greedy and because "you didnt let it happen"
..its all your fault man you should be banned.
Click to expand...

But that won't happen because they won't come along to quest there if they don't have the option to get a quest there.

And if they throw a tantrum because they cannot get a quest there, the issue is not the game, it's your player group maturity level.
 
Placing a Land Claim Block (LCB) in a prefab does not stop other players from getting quests from traders to that same prefab location.

Here's why:
Quest Assignment:
Quests are assigned based on available POIs (Points of Interest) in the world, and the game doesn't check for player ownership via LCBs when generating quest targets.

What happens when another player gets a quest to a landclaimd prefab:
a)They can still receive the quest objective from traders expecting fully to be able to do that quest.
b)When they travel to the location, reality sets in they wasted valuable time getting there only to be denied starting the quest due to it being land claimed.

if you can not comprehend the issue in that, seriously thats your problem not mine.
 
Grandpa Minion said:
Placing a Land Claim Block (LCB) in a prefab does not stop other players from getting quests from traders to that same prefab location.


Quests are assigned based on available POIs (Points of Interest) in the world, and the game doesn't check for player ownership via LCBs when generating quest targets.

What happens when another player gets a quest to a landclaimd prefab:
a)They can still receive the quest objective from traders expecting fully to be able to do that quest.
b)When they travel to the location, reality sets in they wasted valuable time getting there only to be denied starting the quest due to it being land claimed.

if you can not comprehend the issue in that, seriously thats your problem not mine.
Click to expand...

LCBs block traders from offering quests for any POI that has an LCB in it. If an LCB overlaps a POI, that POI is removed from the list of quest locations.

If that isn't working on your server, then it's either a vanilla bug, or one of your janky mods is overriding that restriction.
 
Grandpa Minion said:
Placing a Land Claim Block (LCB) in a prefab does not stop other players from getting quests from traders to that same prefab location.

Here's why:
Quest Assignment:
Quests are assigned based on available POIs (Points of Interest) in the world, and the game doesn't check for player ownership via LCBs when generating quest targets.

What happens when another player gets a quest to a landclaimd prefab:
a)They can still receive the quest objective from traders expecting fully to be able to do that quest.
b)When they travel to the location, reality sets in they wasted valuable time getting there only to be denied starting the quest due to it being land claimed.

if you can not comprehend the issue in that, seriously thats your problem not mine.
Click to expand...
Incorrect. Land claim blocks prevent getting quests for a POI. Not sure how many times we have to state that for it to sink in.

If that is not working for you, then it is probably a conflict with one of your many mods. The only time it won't prevent it is if the quest was taken before the land claim block was placed, which is rare.
 
Riamus said:
Incorrect. Land claim blocks prevent getting quests for a POI. Not sure how many times we have to state that for it to sink in.

If that is not working for you, then it is probably a conflict with one of your many mods. The only time it won't prevent it is if the quest was taken before the land claim block was placed, which is rare.
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I'm beginning to suspect Grandpa doesn't actually play the game. Maybe he runs a server, and he certainly runs his mouth on the forums.

But that kind of ignorance about such a basic game feature says to me that he just... doesn't play.
 
EvilPolygons said:
I'm beginning to suspect Grandpa doesn't actually play the game. Maybe he runs a server, and he certainly runs his mouth on the forums.

But that kind of ignorance about such a basic game feature says to me that he just... doesn't play.
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It does seem that way. Besides, he just recently went on a posting frenzy about how great the recent updates were for PVP.
 
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