PC Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow

 It would great to have some actual survival changes made

Food decay and food preservation, salt and refrigeration, also gives cold water

Getting wet and cold in the snow makes you lose health due to hypothermia, your hands become more unsteady the colder you get

Need warm drinks, cold drinks will make it worse

Wearing to much in the desert leads to hyperthermia, loss of vision, health loss, need yucca juice and cold water and correct clothing

Wasteland constant health loss due to radiation and or bio toxins in the air need suit

Killing a bear gives a decent amount of food, I mean it's bear ffs but as the same time a bear will kill you in one shot unless in heavy armour head to toe

Return farming to the land it makes 0 sense to have it boxes but it needs water and fertilizer to work and you have to have hoe the land as well,  zombie and animals can destroy the crops by walking through them so they have to be defended 

 
Annihilatorza said:
 It would great to have some actual survival changes made

Food decay and food preservation, salt and refrigeration, also gives cold water

Getting wet and cold in the snow makes you lose health due to hypothermia, your hands become more unsteady the colder you get

Need warm drinks, cold drinks will make it worse

Wearing to much in the desert leads to hyperthermia, loss of vision, health loss, need yucca juice and cold water and correct clothing

Wasteland constant health loss due to radiation and or bio toxins in the air need suit

Killing a bear gives a decent amount of food, I mean it's bear ffs but as the same time a bear will kill you in one shot unless in heavy armour head to toe

Return farming to the land it makes 0 sense to have it boxes but it needs water and fertilizer to work and you have to have hoe the land as well,  zombie and animals can destroy the crops by walking through them so they have to be defended 
Click to expand...
Are you crazy? 

You can't have survival aspects in this conso... Er, survival game!

Think of the casuals!  The rust buddies!

... If you add those survival elements, you are basically saying that players can play more than 25 minutes!

(Fantastic ideas and I support them)

 
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Annihilatorza said:
 It would great to have some actual survival changes made

Food decay and food preservation, salt and refrigeration, also gives cold water

Getting wet and cold in the snow makes you lose health due to hypothermia, your hands become more unsteady the colder you get

Need warm drinks, cold drinks will make it worse

Wearing to much in the desert leads to hyperthermia, loss of vision, health loss, need yucca juice and cold water and correct clothing

Wasteland constant health loss due to radiation and or bio toxins in the air need suit

Killing a bear gives a decent amount of food, I mean it's bear ffs but as the same time a bear will kill you in one shot unless in heavy armour head to toe

Return farming to the land it makes 0 sense to have it boxes but it needs water and fertilizer to work and you have to have hoe the land as well,  zombie and animals can destroy the crops by walking through them so they have to be defended 
Click to expand...
Personally not a fan of these.  They would be fine as part of higher difficulties perhaps, but not as the normal way things are.

Food decay becomes problematic on a server that is always running.  If you aren't playing every day, your food will always spoil.  This isn't even realistic because in real life, you are always "playing" so spoilage makes sense.  In the game, even if you say it takes a month to spoil, at 60 minute days, that's only a little over one real day, so if you aren't playing very regularly your food will never last until you are able to build whatever is necessary to stop it.  That wouldn't be enjoyable to most players.

Cold and heat having more effect on you is okay, depending on what it is.  Keep in mind some players want to start in the desert or wasteland or snow biomes and you aren't going to be able to do so if you don't have appropriate clothing with those effects added.  It isn't like real life where you are likely to have clothing already.  In the game, you start with none and can't make much or find/buy much for at least a little while depending on how much scavenging you do.  And some players hate scavenging and having to do so just so they can be in another biome while mining or building would upset them.

Wasteland radiation is problematic to require a suit because you need armor.  And with the new changes to clothing/armor, you wouldn't even be able to essentially wear a suit over armor.  You could have some kind of armor mod for radiation resistance, but that doesn't really make sense.

Making bears stronger is fine, though doesn't really matter all that much. By the time you are likely dealing with bears, you will probably be shooting them and never getting hit in the first place.  Especially if you know they can one shot you.

For farming, is there some reason boxes make zero sense?  Even though most farms are in the ground, personal farming is often done in boxes as it is easier to maintain good soil, especially in certain parts of the world.  And making farming a sim is not really necessary.  If you think it needs to be harder, that can be done without the need to make it a sim.  Farming sims are for people who want to farm in a more realistic way.

 
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Riamus said:
Personally not a fan of these.  They would be fine as part of higher difficulties perhaps, but not as the normal way things are.

Food decay becomes problematic on a server that is always running.  If you aren't playing every day, your food will always spoil.  This isn't even realistic because in real life, you are always "playing" so spoilage makes sense.  In the game, even if you say it takes a month to spoil, at 60 minute days, that's only a little over one real day, so if you aren't playing very regularly your food will never last until you are able to build whatever is necessary to stop it.  That wouldn't be enjoyable to most players.

Cold and heat having more effect on you is okay, depending on what it is.  Keep in mind some players want to start in the desert or wasteland or snow biomes and you aren't going to be able to do so if you don't have appropriate clothing with those effects added.  It isn't like real life where you are likely to have clothing already.  In the game, you start with none and can't make much or find/buy much for at least a little while depending on how much scavenging you do.  And some players hate scavenging and having to do so just so they can be in another biome while mining or building would upset them.

Wasteland radiation is problematic to require a suit because you need armor.  And with the new changes to clothing/armor, you wouldn't even be able to essentially wear a suit over armor.  You could have asked kind of arbor mod for radiation resistance, but that doesn't really make sense.

Making bears stronger is fine, though didn't really matter all that much. By the time you are likely dealing with bears, you will probably be sitting then and never getting hit in the first place.  Especially if you know they can one shot you.

For farming, is there some reason boxes make zero sense?  Even though most deaths are in the ground, personal farming is often done in boxes as it is easier to maintain good soil, especially in certain parts of the world.  And making farming a sim is not really necessary.  If you think it needs to be harder, that can be done without the need to make it a sim.  Farming sims are for people who want to farm in a more realistic way.
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i agree with you, to be honest i gave up having a garden in real life bending over to pull weeds tilling the ground every year the location sucks so my plants are in buckets in a rack now,  the planters in 7d2d make perfect sense to me especially if you have a roof garden lol

 
Annihilatorza said:
My guess is would also be governed by finding books or magazines, find 10 unlock bacon and eggs, find 20 unlock pies, find 40 stews ect.
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That will definitely be the case. From what I've read on the forum so far, the magazines will be found mainly in Shamway crates and kitchen cupboards.

That means to get bacon and eggs fast you will have to loot some residential buildings first.

 
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Guppycur said:
Are you crazy? 

You can't have survival aspects in this conso... Er, survival game!

Think of the casuals!  The rust buddies!

... If you add those survival elements, you are basically saying that players can play more than 25 minutes!

(Fantastic ideas and I support them)
Click to expand...
I agree.

Survival is only challenging on days one to three after that it is trivial.

bring some need to continually hunt as in food spoils, crap allow snow to be packed into a freezer to slow decay use the snow like a fire uses wood.

I used to enjoy farming & cooking aspect but now it’s just a waste of points to focus on those things. Bacon & eggs is all you ever need. Once you have several crops planted farming becomes irrelevant.

Bring back watering plants, bring back zombies “attacking” plants. Making stuff not so permanent brings back purpose.

This is a big change but I’d like to see food work like it does in Valheim. Meals give boosts to health or stamina or a mix of both. Eat in a way that matches your play style.

 
Fanatical_Meat said:
I agree.

Survival is only challenging on days one to three after that it is trivial.

bring some need to continually hunt as in food spoils, crap allow snow to be packed into a freezer to slow decay use the snow like a fire uses wood.

I used to enjoy farming & cooking aspect but now it’s just a waste of points to focus on those things. Bacon & eggs is all you ever need. Once you have several crops planted farming becomes irrelevant.

Bring back watering plants, bring back zombies “attacking” plants. Making stuff not so permanent brings back purpose.

This is a big change but I’d like to see food work like it does in Valheim. Meals give boosts to health or stamina or a mix of both. Eat in a way that matches your play style.
Click to expand...
I too, would like more survival aspects in the game, but I must disagree, in part, on food becoming irrelevant later.

I think The Fun Pimps wanted to give food a different "role" than what we're arguing on.

We are focusing completely on the survival aspect of food, but, as far as I can understand, the current iteration of food is more focused on giving food a "boosting" role if you invest in the relevant perks. What I'm saying is that we're only discussing the "fill the food bar" aspect of food, but the game currently points you towards a more advanced use of food which could be comparable to a perk-effect of sorts. With the higher level recipes, for example, you can boost your stamina and other attributes, for some time. That has to account for something.

In that regard, I can understand the choice TFP made: making early game not so hard on new or casual players, but at the same time, giving veteran or hard-core players a way to use food in middle to later game as a source of improvement / boost / bonuses.

 
Riamus said:
Personally not a fan of these.  They would be fine as part of higher difficulties perhaps, but not as the normal way things are.

Food decay becomes problematic on a server that is always running.  If you aren't playing every day, your food will always spoil.  This isn't even realistic because in real life, you are always "playing" so spoilage makes sense.  In the game, even if you say it takes a month to spoil, at 60 minute days, that's only a little over one real day, so if you aren't playing very regularly your food will never last until you are able to build whatever is necessary to stop it.  That wouldn't be enjoyable to most players.

Cold and heat having more effect on you is okay, depending on what it is.  Keep in mind some players want to start in the desert or wasteland or snow biomes and you aren't going to be able to do so if you don't have appropriate clothing with those effects added.  It isn't like real life where you are likely to have clothing already.  In the game, you start with none and can't make much or find/buy much for at least a little while depending on how much scavenging you do.  And some players hate scavenging and having to do so just so they can be in another biome while mining or building would upset them.

Wasteland radiation is problematic to require a suit because you need armor.  And with the new changes to clothing/armor, you wouldn't even be able to essentially wear a suit over armor.  You could have some kind of armor mod for radiation resistance, but that doesn't really make sense.

Making bears stronger is fine, though doesn't really matter all that much. By the time you are likely dealing with bears, you will probably be shooting them and never getting hit in the first place.  Especially if you know they can one shot you.

For farming, is there some reason boxes make zero sense?  Even though most farms are in the ground, personal farming is often done in boxes as it is easier to maintain good soil, especially in certain parts of the world.  And making farming a sim is not really necessary.  If you think it needs to be harder, that can be done without the need to make it a sim.  Farming sims are for people who want to farm in a more realistic way.
Click to expand...
Food decay is one aspect and you could turn it in on and off in MP, but you could also say In a freezer it will keep for 3 in game months without spoiling, same with the salt, salt cured meat biltong/jerky lasts a long time.

If you want to start in those biomes, which not the way game is currently designed to be played more power to you but as it's stands cold and hot are mild annoyance and thats all they do, they don't do much else.

We will have to wait and see what they do with new armour and clothing system but I agree armour would do very little to block ionising radiation,  magic pills ala fallout or a Geiger counter or a rad suit but you can only wear that or the new system lets you wear different layers. 

For me what's easier in the apocalypse, hoeing the ground and planting seeds or building a special box with nails and precious straight cut lumber and then filling it with soil and fertilizer.

I go with option a much easier to just plant it, not trying to make a sim on farming just certain things in games bug me, like spending all the time to make a box to plant a single ear or corn or doing planting a field full.

Like fallouts 4 glowing sea bugs the living snot out of me since it's not even close to how a nuke and liquefaction works, still love the game though.

 
Guppycur said:
Are you crazy? 

You can't have survival aspects in this conso... Er, survival game!

Think of the casuals!  The rust buddies!

... If you add those survival elements, you are basically saying that players can play more than 25 minutes!

(Fantastic ideas and I support them)
Click to expand...
Isn't this a Hording game? my base is soo full of stuff that 1-800 Junk won't return my calls.

 
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GoofMcGee said:
So how is the Thick44 Magnum coming?  Asking for millions of frens.

Maybe it could Thick people and give them a bleed.  Who knows. 

Debuff list says "Thicked" bleed damage.

Ya'll live in imaginationland, I just go there from time to time.
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That's most likely not gonna happen.... Maybe 

 
GoofMcGee said:
So how is the Thick44 Magnum coming?  Asking for millions of frens.

Maybe it could Thick people and give them a bleed.  Who knows. 

Debuff list says "Thicked" bleed damage.

Ya'll live in imaginationland, I just go there from time to time.
Click to expand...
Im gonna make a mod for that, ill be on nexus sometime today

 
Druid_Koldun said:
Guys, please tell me, will there be a new model in alpha 21 with new high-quality textures? or has the new character model been ported to alpha 22? And tell us more, please, are there any plans to introduce a raft or boats with new water? I hope so. Please, who knows, if possible, answer me
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If a raft is added at all it might not happen until after the game goes gold. New character models will be in A22

 
Fanatical_Meat said:
Why would you need a raft other than to hand out in a lake to avoid a horde?
Click to expand...


That's where the "at all" comes into it. I doubt it is very high on their priority list.

On the other hand, with the water fix, water voxels now play nicely with decorations and blocks so there might be the possibility of a fully submerged or partially submerged city and a raft could be useful for rowing out between buildings before diving down to the POIs. I'd like to see something like that if possible.

Even if a whole city isn't possible it would still be useful for a small cluster of submerged POIs.

 
Roland said:
That's where the "at all" comes into it. I doubt it is very high on their priority list.

On the other hand, with the water fix, water voxels now play nicely with decorations and blocks so there might be the possibility of a fully submerged or partially submerged city and a raft could be useful for rowing out between buildings before diving down to the POIs. I'd like to see something like that if possible.

Even if a whole city isn't possible it would still be useful for a small cluster of submerged POIs.
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Would we be able to build underwater, lets say 5x5x5, the part where the water is inside, can we remove we it with solid blocks and then remove them, or use buckets for example ? Like in MC sort of. 

 
Rad resistance on armor?  Hellooooo, lead lining mod.  Easy peasy.  To craft it?  You need lead, duct tape, cloth + workbench.  +20% rad resistance for each piece.  Make an "Air filter cartridge" mod for helmets to deal with airborne particles/gas/toxins.  Done.

I already did that myself to use with early iterations of The Wasteland before bdubyah put that in for power armor. 

<!-- Adding Lead Liner to Power Armor -->
<append xpath="/item_modifiers">
<item_modifier name="modPowerArmorLeadLining" installable_tags="powerarmorHead,powerarmorChest,powerarmorArms,powerarmorLegs,powerarmorBoots" modifier_tags="PAhelmet,PAchest,PAarms,PAlegs,PAboots,PAboots" blocked_tags="noMods,clothing" type="attachment">
<property name="UnlockedBy" value="modPowerArmorLeadLiningSchematic"/>
<property name="CustomIcon" value="modPowerArmor"/>
<property name="CustomIcon" value="modPowerArmor"/>
<property name="Stacknumber" value="1"/>
<property name="Group" value="Mods"/>
<property name="DropMeshfile" value="#Other/Items?Misc/sack_droppedPrefab.prefab"/>
<property name="EconomicValue" value="1000"/>
<property name="Material" value="Mlead_scrap"/>
<effect_group tiered="false">
<passive_effect name="BuffResistance" operation="base_add" value=".2" tags="buffRadiation01"/>
</effect_group>
</item_modifier>

</append>



And if this 61 year old boomer gamer, not-a-coder, could figure it out?  I'm pretty sure someone who actually understands xpath and xml and how buffs/debuffs work could do a bang-up job with it.

 
beerfly said:
Would we be able to build underwater, lets say 5x5x5, the part where the water is inside, can we remove we it with solid blocks and then remove them, or use buckets for example ? Like in MC sort of. 
Click to expand...
We simply don't know yet, we have been told water does not flow like a river, no game does it's simply to expensive to do. (Performance cost)

 
Fanatical_Meat said:
Why would you need a raft other than to hand out in a lake to avoid a horde?
Click to expand...


Would you really be able to avoid a horde? Getting into a vehicle during a blood moon just causes the horde to shift into spawning super vultures. You'd only be trading land-based zombies for puking, flying zombies that are far more trouble. I would suspect that getting onto a raft, another vehicle, would cause the same thing to happen.

 
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