PC Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow

[Jost Amman]

Ew.  Just ew.

...you linked a site that simply parses the forum *we are actually on* and does it so slow that it creates support issues because people are not getting updated mod info.

Ignore him new guy.  

Thanks for pointing that out, I didn't know about this issue.

But please, next time don't assume I linked that with malicious intent, thanks.

 

[Guest]

Just looking at 7DTD history, and we're at around 9 years with 21 Alphas (almost). As Alpha 21 seems to have been the longest Alpha in development, is it the case that this Alpha is shaping up to be one the biggest changes to the game we've seen?

I loved how much the new RWG / Tileset system breathed fresh air into the game. I was wondering whether A21 feels like a significant step up compared to A20, as A20 did to A19.

Or is it more that the development of things like character models / bandits / water are so complex that it's just taking a long time to get them out? (which would be completely understandable!)

I dunno, the length of time and the fact devs are being quiet makes me think there's more we don't know about....might just be wishful thinking though 

 

[meganoth]

Just looking at 7DTD history, and we're at around 9 years with 21 Alphas (almost). As Alpha 21 seems to have been the longest Alpha in development, is it the case that this Alpha is shaping up to be one the biggest changes to the game we've seen?

I loved how much the new RWG / Tileset system breathed fresh air into the game. I was wondering whether A21 feels like a significant step up compared to A20, as A20 did to A19.

Or is it more that the development of things like character models / bandits / water are so complex that it's just taking a long time to get them out? (which would be completely understandable!)

I dunno, the length of time and the fact devs are being quiet makes me think there's more we don't know about....might just be wishful thinking though 

Longest? For a few years now each alpha seems to take about one year. And this one seems to be no exception.

 

[Xeraphim]

@Roland - can we have an unofficial guesstimation as to the release of A21?

in contracting it's helpful to at least throw out a "if the stars align and the heavens and earth make all things perfect and magic happens and unicorns fart and we have nonstop miracles, we'll have it done in a week and a half, but it will probably be closer to three months because of Murphy's Law so sometime in between those dates if nothing else surprises us" so that the customer doesn't think "the release date will come after three eternities have passed... perhaps my seventieth generation offspring might see it if all goes well"

 

[Roland]

Unofficially before the end of the year. That has been the goal. We'll see.

Just looking at 7DTD history, and we're at around 9 years with 21 Alphas (almost). As Alpha 21 seems to have been the longest Alpha in development, is it the case that this Alpha is shaping up to be one the biggest changes to the game we've seen?

I loved how much the new RWG / Tileset system breathed fresh air into the game. I was wondering whether A21 feels like a significant step up compared to A20, as A20 did to A19.

Or is it more that the development of things like character models / bandits / water are so complex that it's just taking a long time to get them out? (which would be completely understandable!)

I dunno, the length of time and the fact devs are being quiet makes me think there's more we don't know about....might just be wishful thinking though 

Alpha 17 still holds the record for longest development time. A21 involves a lot of polishing and standardizing which takes a lot of time. There are some things not listed on the first page that will be in A21. As soon as a developer reveals something new it will be added.

 

[Guest]

Longest? For a few years now each alpha seems to take about one year. And this one seems to be no exception.

Well the Devs said A21 development was already underway by Sept last year. So it's shaping up to be at least 14/15 months I'd say for this Alpha. And while I didn't review the dates I just did a mental calculation: 21 / 9 means approx an average of 2 alphas per year, which is why I felt this was the longest (wasn't aware A17 was the longest though )

Alpha 17 still holds the record for longest development time. A21 involves a lot of polishing and standardizing which takes a lot of time. There are some things not listed on the first page that will be in A21. As soon as a developer reveals something new it will be added.

Didn't realise A17 held that torch

Completely understand the rule of nothing posted until its confirmed - was just interested in the development process in general really.

Your comment about polishing and standardizing is the kind of info I was after - that they're making a big push with this Alpha - at least that what it feels like with absolutely no knowledge of anything haha.

Thanks for the info dude!

 

[Jost Amman]

Didn't realise A17 held that torch

Well, if I recall correctly, that was the alpha where they also upgraded the game engine (or was it the graphics maybe?)... anyway, they did something else on top of the regular content work so the deadlines went awry.

 

[meganoth]

Well the Devs said A21 development was already underway by Sept last year. So it's shaping up to be at least 14/15 months I'd say for this Alpha. And while I didn't review the dates I just did a mental calculation: 21 / 9 means approx an average of 2 alphas per year, which is why I felt this was the longest (wasn't aware A17 was the longest though )

Both is misleading. There is much overlap between the versions as some developers or designers have to do final bug fixing for the old alpha while others are finished for their part and start with the next (AFAIK). A20 experimental was released at the start of december it seems. If A21 experimental is released in december as well it will be about a year. And who knows, maybe the first designers are already working on A22 or will be shortly.

Also the one year rule was true only for the last few years, while the first few alphas were lightning fast in comparison, after 2 1/2 years of development they reached alpha 14. It seems Alpha 5 was released 18 days after Alpha 4. Is that fast? No, Alpha 4 was fast with 5 days

Didn't realise A17 held that torch

Completely understand the rule of nothing posted until its confirmed - was just interested in the development process in general really.

Your comment about polishing and standardizing is the kind of info I was after - that they're making a big push with this Alpha - at least that what it feels like with absolutely no knowledge of anything haha.

Thanks for the info dude!

 

[Roland]

They are prolly also busy on that new title theyre working on...

Nobody working on 7 Days to Die is tied up with the new title. The new title is still mostly conceptual art and Unreal engine tests and meetings which involve people hired to do those things for that project. In addition, the 7 Days to Die team has grown as well for the final push to full release so.....prolly not.

 

[Matt115]

I return... honestly  pleasee i need  any news any. I feel empty like... closed for years newsstand

 

[Gamida]

Longest? For a few years now each alpha seems to take about one year. And this one seems to be no exception.

A traveler from the future (or maybe it was a dream, whatever) told me that the game was actually finished in 2019 but the hype was kept alive by releasing it in stages. Gotta keep it in the public eye ya know.

 

[Riamus]

If it is on realtime then everyone always eats and drinks at the same rate no matter how long their days are. It is neither harder or easier. The only weirdness is that you end up eating multiple times in a day which feels strange if you play 120 minute days. But that is just an illusion. Realtime timers affect everyone the same. If I have to eat every 2 hours of realtime play then so do you and whether that translates to 7pm for me or 11am for you is immaterial.

Stamina use burns food as does cold weather. So yes running around or pushing the acceleration on vehicles burns food.

I'm not sure I agree.  After all, why would you not want eating and drinking to scale?  I don't expect a change and I don't really care either way, but it is strange.

And speaking of unrealistic... Accelerated vehicles use more food?  That's even more unrealistic.  I certainly don't use more food if I press down more on the gas pedal or twist the throttle more.  Using more gas makes perfect sense. But not food (except on a bicycle).

I think I mentioned in a past post that one thing developers often forget is that even in a game not meant to be realistic (and this one is meant to be at least somewhat realistic, in a zombie post apocalyptic sense), you can only make things a certain amount unrealistic before you need to give a good reason why it is so unrealistic in the game.  Without something in the game that explains why it is so unrealistic, players take notice and start taking developer time and support staff time by asking if it is supposed to be that way and why is it that way and why don't you change it and so on.

Think of it like this... I'll use world of warcraft as an example as most know the game of not played it, but you can substitute any other fantasy RPG.  If they made the game such that paladins can't heal but fighters can, what would your reaction be?  It isn't a "realistic" game, but there is a certain expectation.  If they didn't make a good explanation in the game for that change, everyone would be asking about it and you'd see complaints even if it played well.  But if they could put some kind of explanation in that made at least some sense, then you'd avoid all the unnecessary back and forth.  They could say that the gods were destroyed so paladins can't heal but fighters can heal in a combat medic sort if way. 

In here, you can easily explain away not being able to use snow for water by making it irradiated snow or tainted snow or having she gave intro that says that it isn't safe.  But I would love to see how anyone can explain needing more food to drive faster in a motorized vehicle.  This isn't the Flintstones.

 

[Roland]

I'm not sure I agree.  After all, why would you not want eating and drinking to scale?  I don't expect a change and I don't really care either way, but it is strange.

And speaking of unrealistic... Accelerated vehicles use more food?  That's even more unrealistic.  I certainly don't use more food if I press down more on the gas pedal or twist the throttle more.  Using more gas makes perfect sense. But not food (except on a bicycle).

I think I mentioned in a past post that one thing developers often forget is that even in a game not meant to be realistic (and this one is meant to be at least somewhat realistic, in a zombie post apocalyptic sense), you can only make things a certain amount unrealistic before you need to give a good reason why it is so unrealistic in the game.  Without something in the game that explains why it is so unrealistic, players take notice and start taking developer time and support staff time by asking if it is supposed to be that way and why is it that way and why don't you change it and so on.

Think of it like this... I'll use world of warcraft as an example as most know the game of not played it, but you can substitute any other fantasy RPG.  If they made the game such that paladins can't heal but fighters can, what would your reaction be?  It isn't a "realistic" game, but there is a certain expectation.  If they didn't make a good explanation in the game for that change, everyone would be asking about it and you'd see complaints even if it played well.  But if they could put some kind of explanation in that made at least some sense, then you'd avoid all the unnecessary back and forth.  They could say that the gods were destroyed so paladins can't heal but fighters can heal in a combat medic sort if way. 

In here, you can easily explain away not being able to use snow for water by making it irradiated snow or tainted snow or having she gave intro that says that it isn't safe.  But I would love to see how anyone can explain needing more food to drive faster in a motorized vehicle.  This isn't the Flintstones.

Well it’s been this way for a couple of alphas now so there was a big discussion at the time when it was implemented.  The game reason was that there needs to be an ongoing food drain into the late game since there is no spoilage. The thematic reason is that by driving crazy fast over the rough uneven terrain you actually would be using quite a bit of core strength to keep yourself stabilized in your vehicle. The world we drive in in the game world is quite a bit different than the world you drive in. I’m sure you don’t burn any stamina clicking on your cruise control. But try 4 wheeling in a river bed for a couple of hours and you might be ready for a big meal…and some Tylenol. 

 

[Gamida]

Well it’s been this way for a couple of alphas now so there was a big discussion at the time when it was implemented.  The game reason was that there needs to be an ongoing food drain into the late game since there is no spoilage. The thematic reason is that by driving crazy fast over the rough uneven terrain you actually would be using quite a bit of core strength to keep yourself stabilized in your vehicle. The world we drive in in the game world is quite a bit different than the world you drive in. I’m sure you don’t burn any stamina clicking on your cruise control. But try 4 wheeling in a river bed for a couple of hours and you might be ready for a big meal…and some Tylenol. 

and a poop, don't forget a poop.

 

[Roland]

and a poop, don't forget a poop.

That happened in the pants during that moment when we hit the river bank and flew over the embankment.

 

[NukemDed]

Boiled meat.....this is one that has always got me. Is it just me or doesn't that just sound completely disgusting? 

I never make it in the game, idk, I just refuse to. I know it gives hydration along with food & health but I just can't do it. 

Hell I'll even eat dog or cat food while I'm out looting, which is also disgusting, but I refuse to make boiled meat, lol

ever heard of pulled pork? thats yum and essentially boiled meat.

and corned beef

and one of new zealands  delicacies is a 'boil up'

boiled chicken is ok too...

poached fish is nice

i am guessing you dont cook a lot...

so funny thing the wife said to me during our morning coffee made me realize why I'm liking 7 days less and less it no longer "feels" like a Sandbox game it feels like a very bad RPG without a story. I think I understand what the cause of it is now that I think about it. a Sandbox Game shouldn't need me to "adopt a new playstyle" I should be able to play the game how I want and have player agency. With the constant "your not playing the game how we want you to play it" updates and changes where players air the concerns about their player agency being remove the more the game isn't a SandBox game  I honestly think this is why the game updates we keep getting just make's playing the game a chore less fun more like world or warcraft with no factions.  I honestly think the game no longer feels like a sand box when your told by dev's that how you like to play in a sand box game where how you like to play is always punished or told to adopt a new way or being forced to play in away you don't find fun but its how they want you to play. that's just not a sandbox anymore. Go figure it takes the wife pointing it out for me to see it.

how about trying different ways to play.

variety is the spice of life.

ask your wife

 

[NukemDed]

there's mods for the game? well that could change things considerably. got any suggestion for places to get those ? 

mods rock bro. they have kept the game alive for me.

i am playing with undead legacy atm and it is a bit grindy, but with any game once you figure it out it is easier. some like complexity and depth, some like cod.

also, play with standard vanilla settings. i am currently on a playthru with 300% xp with 300% loot and am having  blast ripping up the wasteland. although it would be much easier if the fecking rng gods would grant at least 1 suppressor...

darkness falls is another great mod.

i dipped my toes in the medevil (sp?) and ravenhurst mods a few alphas back and they are noteworthy  (i see gup is about and i see jax sometimes here) , havent checked back in on those for a bit, but once the dev cycle dust settles and i can get a better pc then i know i am in for a ton of treats

 

[Xeraphim]

mods rock bro. they have kept the game alive for me.

i am playing with undead legacy atm and it is a bit grindy, but with any game once you figure it out it is easier. some like complexity and depth, some like cod.

also, play with standard vanilla settings. i am currently on a playthru with 300% xp with 300% loot and am having  blast ripping up the wasteland. although it would be much easier if the fecking rng gods would grant at least 1 suppressor...

darkness falls is another great mod.

i dipped my toes in the medevil (sp?) and ravenhurst mods a few alphas back and they are noteworthy  (i see gup is about and i see jax sometimes here) , havent checked back in on those for a bit, but once the dev cycle dust settles and i can get a better pc then i know i am in for a ton of treats

One of the unique mods that folks overlook, and there are several out there (Couch Window's RPG for example) is Blewbarry Farms with its custom bandits, wyverns (a high hp flying vulture-type screamer worth a ton of XP), Barry weapons, farm-themed ammunition for some of the Barry weapons (they shoot crops!), a silly quest line for the endgame forge and touches of potty humor here and there due to bandit experimentation causing a bit of a calamity (and some rather seriously dangerous endgame critters) and the Raid Bosses that you can challenge all three at once while faching a swarm of over 200 zombies (half of them being the non-vanilla types) and bandits which leads to rather large "raid base"s like the one i attached an image of

as for the other mods, like Undead Legacy (well made!), Darkness Falls (kudos to Khaine, this one has a ton of replay value), Sorcery (an excellent standalone or addition to UL or DF), War3zuk and the like - i played them to the finish to find out the pros and cons and where things could be improved and most of them have the same power creep issue that plagues all games with an RPG factor

My main concern for a21 is that i wonder how we will be making Yucca Smoothies and other critically important thirst quenching and self-dousing items so that we don't die to the various effects and critters that set the player on fire or the raid boss AoE that drains food and water, as i know that Khaine will certainly add water and such back in to deal with the fireballs in the wasteland as that's a non-negotiable thing

 

[Ganeshakw]

Bro, any download links for Blewbarry Farms mod ? I have heard and read about if but was unable to find any downloads on the web. 

 

[Xeraphim]

Bro, any download links for Blewbarry Farms mod ? I have heard and read about if but was unable to find any downloads on the web. 

It's server side and will always be that way - if you want to experience it then log in to the server

Arcuied will never be releasing those files to the public, it's his private mod on his server in his house and it only goes down for restarts every 3.5 hours for a period of about 2 minutes

RAW is the version that you just log in and don't have to download anything, Orchard (with some client side mods) is waiting for a21 before Arc brings it back up again