PC Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow

Any chance a multi-return scrapping ever happens? Was just watching G9 loot a Savage Country and he had an inventory full of tank tops and most had dye installed. Would be nice to be able to scrap them with the dye in them and get the cloth and paint so you don't have to remove the dye first. Just a QOL thing. :)
this would be awesoem to have +1

 
with the amount of food available and the number of farm plots found in drops along with quest rewards , the only reason i have planted anything is for the look of it around my home. 

I have so many airdrops of meat stews and others that i really havent had to cook much at all .  it is a single player world started with a20 and continued to current a20.6

 
You forget that for the planting you also need to put every single type of plant into a belt slot. On top of crafting the new seeds, once for every type! And you have to do that every 3 days, while you can craft a huge amount of ammo in one session and be done with it for a week or two.

Just count how much clicks you would need to build 2000 9mm bullets. Usually you need only one type of ammo. I'd say that should be possible with about 50 mouse clicks (a bit more if stack sizes are low, didn't check that) and you are done for 2 weeks.

With a farm of (on average) 5 seeds per plant you need 20 clicks per plant type and there are 12 plants types (not counting cotton naturally), so we are talking about up to 240 clicks, every 3 days.
Clicking never bothered me, because at the end of a long play session, the amount of clicks from farming is always small compared to the total overall.

crafting, farming, building - those are all night time activities for me so it never seems tedious for me, it actually makes the night go by faster as I am keeping busy

 
They could have kept in wild planting (which I will repeat was an outstanding and thoroughly enjoyable nomadic system; with the hoe crafting and ability to fertilise the plots for better yield)
That was done because the new terrain system forced them to do away with planting in the soil directly. It was not a standalone decision. It was a result of another system changing.

 
I do agree that it's forcing a single playing style for player progression.  And you describe a player that Mines - builds - farms - cooks that will get NOTHING for rewards or progression when Alpha 21 goes out.  I remember when alpha 19 came out, I went on STRIKE to prove a point; my teammates that I rolled with thought hey, this building a base and mining a bit not that hard ... 7 days later the base was garbage, the gang was starving and we had a lack of resources gathered and they were low level and ungeared (I crafted their gear to btw).

I realise the most FUN part is exploring questing and looting and the XP rewards and progression been focusing only on that part.  While Crafting, build, farming and cooking little to NO XP, and you can't get magazines or books to progress unless you drop everything and loot yourself while nothing gets done.   Now you'll probably say - hey why not share the responsibilities ?  -  is farming and cooking fun than blowing a zombie's head open ? - no, Is staring a Blocks and understanding how Structural integrity works fun !? - no  Mining for 4 straight hours a time well spent ?  - no.  I be lucky to get 10 minutes of their time to do one of the tasks until they get bored and jump on their vehicle to go blow up zombies ...

Maybe it'll all work out ...

 
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Before the game is released, are there and plans to have some cool scare-the-crap-out-of-you sounds added (replacement of the zombie attack sounds etc.)?
Yes! That, and please remove the toilet flushing water sound in the night!!  :rolleyes2:

 
I realise the most FUN part is exploring questing and looting and the XP rewards and progression been focusing only on that part.  While Crafting, build, farming and cooking little to NO XP
I'm sorry?? What are you talking about? ... Have you ever played this game?

  • Everybody knows building is absolutely one of the best ways to get XP.
  • Mining and farming wood, does also give a fair amount of XP.
  • Crafting gives a small amount of XP, but there are ways, especially for miners, to get a HUGE amount of XP by crafting material Bundles!
So, no, you're dead wrong on almost everything you said.

and you can't get magazines or books to progress unless you drop everything and loot yourself while nothing gets done.
Wrong again. In A21, you can sell your mined materials to a trader, and buy magazines from them. And by the way, if you decide to be stuck all the time in one place, mining and building, I say it's just FAIR that you don't get the bonuses that people who risk their lives all day get!

 
Not true, Only Upgrading gives decent XP, and maybe mining gives a bit XP (Plus if you measure XP gained in an hour it's still the lowest).  And yes I've played this game thank you.  After Building mining and upgrading I will be at Half the level than my  Looting - questing - killing Zombies friends.  And About building - to me it's fun - to many others esp Mining it's boring.  Key word here is "small" amount XP, and the people that complain builders get too much XP is talking about the Upgrading stage... but I often skip the upgrading stage because it uses less resources and save time  (Concrete Blocks).

But I am glad I can buy magazines I need since half my time is not looting and killing zeds... that's a good thing.

 
I am severely disappointed that none of the figures for these ''probabilities'' were not listed, behavior typical of a statician.

The whole dew collecting affair is abit abysmal. On the one hand you have the functionality of the dew collector. Then on the other you have what is basically a rain collector visually. Has the 3d moddellers gotten confused or something, I am at a loss at how such a error could of been made! As the part of the fibre, which is meant to collect the water that is in gaseous form just drips onto some ropes. That will never make its way into the tank for the player to use. For me, this is immersion breaking and also demonstrates a lack of research into the area of dew collecting. Essentially you have a mechanic that is only explicable by magic. Dew collecting is well researched and many examples of commercial dew collectors can be found online. Here is some paper on dew collection should you wish to learn a little more. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40899-015-0038-z

I have seen from some videos, that the influencing factors on dew collecting - that being if it is indoors or not and time variance. This is too simple, as by the sounds of it you will be aquire the same yields, in frozen regions to deserts and inbetween, if this is the case then this is poorly moddeled in game and requires remedy. Look on the artical, it is only a couple of simple equations - surely not that hard to input into the game.

If we have this sort of dew collector, could we have some active variety too? As that would make for some progression with advanced dew collectors.

On the note of glass jars being taken away, this is not good at all! As this in essence robs the player of the chance to make choices - to use or to scrap the item for resources. As this would teach the player to be careful and to make do with what they had. The removal is perplexing, as I have never gained extra-ordinary amounts of glass from this, but it was handy to do. The fact that glass jars will not pop in and out of existence based off of the fact if liquid is present too is cheapening the experince. Another example of magic in the game... This also means that by removing problems (that of waste and disposal if people dont want it) is taken away and makes the game in a sense with less struggles. If the game intends to have serious resource management, this is not the way to go about it. Glassware has been around for a very long time in human history, I dont see why it should be removed from this game. I have a strong connection to glassware, as a collector. Though this doesnt taint my view, from a gameplay perspective.

As well, drinking out of water, I have heard it being compared to eating those dodgey sandwiches - though I feel there should be greater punishment from drinking from rivers, as losing a little bit of health only to regain it is not satisfactory. Considering that after a world war, and the uses of all sorts of nasty weapons, plus infections. Would you dare to drink open water sources?? I say you should get infected from drinking the water.

No, I do not hope to have modders solve this problem either, as I believe in games being in a presentable state that they shouldnt require mods to address such problems. After all, we pay good money to play our games and the makers should respect that.

 
The whole dew collecting affair is abit abysmal. On the one hand you have the functionality of the dew collector. Then on the other you have what is basically a rain collector visually. Has the 3d moddellers gotten confused or something, I am at a loss at how such a error could of been made! As the part of the fibre, which is meant to collect the water that is in gaseous form just drips onto some ropes. That will never make its way into the tank for the player to use. For me, this is immersion breaking and also demonstrates a lack of research into the area of dew collecting. Essentially you have a mechanic that is only explicable by magic. Dew collecting is well researched and many examples of commercial dew collectors can be found online. Here is some paper on dew collection should you wish to learn a little more. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40899-015-0038-z

I have seen from some videos, that the influencing factors on dew collecting - that being if it is indoors or not and time variance. This is too simple, as by the sounds of it you will be aquire the same yields, in frozen regions to deserts and inbetween, if this is the case then this is poorly moddeled in game and requires remedy. Look on the artical, it is only a couple of simple equations - surely not that hard to input into the game.

If we have this sort of dew collector, could we have some active variety too? As that would make for some progression with advanced dew collectors.


<shrug> I'm no dew collector expert so it doesn't bother my immersion. It would be nice for the sake of all the experts in the field that also play this game if they change the model to be more of a dew collector rather than a rain collector but I doubt they will spend the time to rework it. Maybe though...

I really doubt they will make adjustments for biome differences in climate. The dew collection is supposed to be a simple abstraction and the only thing they care about is whether it is open to sky or not. But...this is the first introduction of these and it could be they will develop them further to be somewhat more complex and allow for an upgrade path like some of the other workstations.

On the note of glass jars being taken away, this is not good at all! As this in essence robs the player of the chance to make choices - to use or to scrap the item for resources. As this would teach the player to be careful and to make do with what they had. The removal is perplexing, as I have never gained extra-ordinary amounts of glass from this, but it was handy to do. The fact that glass jars will not pop in and out of existence based off of the fact if liquid is present too is cheapening the experince. Another example of magic in the game... This also means that by removing problems (that of waste and disposal if people dont want it) is taken away and makes the game in a sense with less struggles. If the game intends to have serious resource management, this is not the way to go about it. Glassware has been around for a very long time in human history, I dont see why it should be removed from this game. I have a strong connection to glassware, as a collector. Though this doesnt taint my view, from a gameplay perspective.


There is no popping in or out of existance of glass jars depending on whether they are full or not any more than any other container in the game. You don't seem bothered by the "magic" of bowls that pop in and out of existence depending on whether they have stew in them or not and your immersion seems fine that oil containers, gas containers, and acid containers are nowhere to be found in their empty versions. In every case where an icon shows a container holding some consumable, that container is simply an artisic rendering to show "one unit" of that consumable. Water jars are simply joining in with the rest of the game in this respect and it really doesn't take long to make the adjustment and no longer be bothered by it any more than you are currently bothered by every "magically disappearing" plate that holds a steak and potato dinner. And this concept is not even new to gaming in general as many many games have you consume something and not have an empty container left behind.

As for choices, when one door closes (choosing how to use your glass jars) more open (how to use your murky water, whether to trade health for hydration) and, frankly, if you haven't been swimming in glass jars by the end of the first few days then you are the only one. So the choice of how to divvy up your glass jars for most people is a pretty tame conundrum. Trust me, the new choices opened up by this change are MUCH more interesting and tough.

Finally, let me solve your waste disposal problem for you. Take a stack of empty jars that you don't want and drop them anywhere. They will despawn in about 20 seconds. Solved. Since everything dropped despawns the whole waste disposal challenge is a bit lacking.

As well, drinking out of water, I have heard it being compared to eating those dodgey sandwiches - though I feel there should be greater punishment from drinking from rivers, as losing a little bit of health only to regain it is not satisfactory. Considering that after a world war, and the uses of all sorts of nasty weapons, plus infections. Would you dare to drink open water sources?? I say you should get infected from drinking the water.


There is a greater punishment: A chance for dysentery. I've gotten it a few times since I started testing A21. It is literally a pain in the butt and kills your stamina for 30 minutes. So because of this I find myself cooking more goldenrod tea which I rarely did in the past. In fact I can't remember the last time I got dysentery pre A21. It sounds like you even forgot that dysentery exists since you didn't list it as one of the penalties and it isn't new to A21. Its been around forever but always something that nobody ever experienced because of the existence of glass jars making access to good water so trivial from the very start. Now access to all the murky water you want is trivial. You can drink right from a source. You find murky water in all water related containers (instead of jars and/or good water). Now I drink murky water a lot out of necessity and dysentery finally has a presence in the game.

No, I do not hope to have modders solve this problem either, as I believe in games being in a presentable state that they shouldnt require mods to address such problems. After all, we pay good money to play our games and the makers should respect that.


What you call mistakes and critical errors due to your expertise and care about water collection techniques, many others will not even blink an eye and accept the basic abstraction of the process. You want it to be more sim-like which is admirable but taking the game to sim-like lengths is exactly what modding is for. The problem is not universal. Most people won't even register the wrongness of the dew collectors and many others who do won't care because they just want the water when it comes down to it and the model looks cool on your base once it is placed. As for respecting the money you have paid, I know the devs do and in my opinion what they have offered more than compensates for the amount paid. As players we should look at the number of hours of entertainment we have gained for how much we paid and respect that.

I paid $30 for this game during the Christmas sale of 2013 and I feel more than compensated for the thousands of hours I've played. These days the game goes for less than $10 when on sale and people are still getting thousands of hours. I, personally, don't think an inaccurate dew collector erases all of that. If they do more research and decide to make it appear more realistic then that would be great. But if they don't, I disagree that that is somehow disrespecting of what everyone paid for the game.

 
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Beelzebubs Ghost said:
It still seems to work fine with the mod though...  does that not tell you something?..


It tells me that both vanilla farming exists and a modified version of farming exists. That means players have a choice of two types of farming so that those who do like vanilla can play that way and those who like the modified version can play that way and nobody has to go without the type of farming they enjoy. As someone who is angry about the removal of features of the game, it surprises me that you would have them remove the current farming and replace it with the version you personally enjoy. Wouldn't it be better to have both versions available to give players options?

LBD is available via mods. Farming in the bare ground is available via mods. This is something to celebrate and thank both the creative mod authors and TFP. For those who really really love a particular mod and can't ever see themselves playing any other way, it might seem like a cop out that TFP didn't go far enough themselves and relied on a modder to do the work. But for someone who doesn't like that particular mod and might try it out but then decide it isn't for them, it might seem like a godsend that TFP kept their own version.

For those who hate all currently available versions of farming, that is what the modding request subforum is for. Spell out your dream version of farming and who knows? Maybe it will inspire someone with modding skills to take it on and do it.

 
Jost Amman said:
Picture frames are a waste of memory/asset space, IMO, if done that way.

They should do like DF where you can put a picture URL in a frame, and it'll display the picture from the internet.
And what if there is temporarily no Internet and steam will be offline?

 
The whole dew collecting affair is abit abysmal. On the one hand you have the functionality of the dew collector. Then on the other you have what is basically a rain collector visually. Has the 3d moddellers gotten confused or something, I am at a loss at how such a error could of been made! As the part of the fibre, which is meant to collect the water that is in gaseous form just drips onto some ropes. That will never make its way into the tank for the player to use. For me, this is immersion breaking and also demonstrates a lack of research into the area of dew collecting. Essentially you have a mechanic that is only explicable by magic. Dew collecting is well researched and many examples of commercial dew collectors can be found online. Here is some paper on dew collection should you wish to learn a little more. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40899-015-0038-z

I have seen from some videos, that the influencing factors on dew collecting - that being if it is indoors or not and time variance. This is too simple, as by the sounds of it you will be aquire the same yields, in frozen regions to deserts and inbetween, if this is the case then this is poorly moddeled in game and requires remedy. Look on the artical, it is only a couple of simple equations - surely not that hard to input into the game.

If we have this sort of dew collector, could we have some active variety too? As that would make for some progression with advanced dew collectors.
I don't care.

And what if there is temporarily no Internet and steam will be offline?
Then EOS will send the police to your house...  :spy:

 
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