PC Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow

[RipClaw]

Secondly we had that with crafting already for some recipes. You could get tier 2 and tier 3 weapon recipes ONLY through looting, and there were no shouts of doom. 

This is true, but there is a difference in A21. You can no longer skip tiers by a lucky find. This makes the game a bit more boring and predictable in my eyes.

I think you described it as a railroad trip. It always goes in the same direction and only the speed varies.

 

[Matt115]

There exist players older than you (not talking about age necessarily but "player age".

Morrowind was the big breakthrough for bethesda into the mainstream AAA market and each successor (including fallout) made them grow substantially. 

That is one reason why Bethesda switches between their franchises, and wants a third one.

1. this is not about "players age" but about situation in my country. Gothic 2 was ( and still is ) more popular in my country because three reasons: 1. people here prefer darker setting 2. was cheaper and easier to buy that morrowind 3.  polish dubbing that's why morrowind never was too much popular because previouse TES were totaly english only and most players didn't know this language enough to be able to play in this types of games. Gothic 2 was darker and more hm "dirty" ( everyone swear sometimes without reasons, hard as hell  etc.) . Well in other hand Painkiller was mega hit in my country and this game is not such good know in West countries

 

[Roland]

I have to say that in the games I play, the new learn to craft system would not actually change all that much. The equipment I tend to use is almost always rewarded from quests, purchased from vendors, or found in the world. Crafting items really doesn't happen in our games at all, except for expendable equipment (explosives, lockpicks, etc.). You want to try this out, I say go for it. So far, I see nothing about it that changes my experience much if at all.

This is a huge point that people should realize about A20 and A19. I know it isn't just me and Gideon because we have had many threads about the fact that crafting has taken a back seat to looting and trading because you can so often find better gear than you can currently craft. From what I have played of A21 so far I am crafting a lot more because more often I can craft things at a higher level than I can find them or buy them. 

Now, I enjoy exploring and scavenging and clearing POIs. So it makes sense that I'm going to find mags and be able to craft more things at a higher level than what I'm finding. But if someone else doesn't and all they want to do is build and mine then their lootstage will still go up as they level from all the experience they get doing what they want to do and they'll surely find and be able to purchase equipment at the same levels they currently are getting in A20 and crafting will continue to take a back seat to the same degree it does currently just like in A20.

So if you like to loot and you increase your looting in A21 you will notice that crafting is a more significant part of the game for you more than A20 and A19

If you hate to loot and avoid it then you will notice that crafting has about the same significance as A20 and A19 and you will rarely craft and mostly find and buy your gear.

If you are one of those players who likes to do it all and you don't increase your looting you will still notice that you can often craft things at a higher tier than anything you've found or that the trader has available to buy. You'll still get lucky and find loot that is better than you what you can craft at times.

 

[Roland]

This is why it is utterly ridiculous and a cheap way to artificially slow people down.

I don't follow you. It makes perfect sense thematically that you are finding bits and pieces from each magazine and filling out your knowledge as you find treasures of old world knowledge.  And if it is in fact to slow people down why am I crafting more in A21 than I ever have in A20 and A19? Why am I able to craft things at a higher level than what I can find or buy more often in A21 than ever before? You think you can grok the system from the descriptions but you can't understand it until you actually play it.

The book series is brilliant because with each new volume, you learn something new. Contrast this against the new system - it makes needing and finding 100 duplicates of a magazine look absurd.

Okay, every 1-3 duplicate magazines you find you learn something new. It perfectly represents you finding a torn magazine with partial instructions but the next one you find completes the recipe and you gain a new craft. It feels very much like gaining the bits and fragments of knowledge and once you have pieced them together you gain that knowledge in full. The next few duplicate magazines have pieces of a better craft on another page that you find in part until you assemble them together. There is no assembling minigame but the process very much helps me imagine what is going on. It does not seem ridiculous or far-fetched in the least-- especially compared to how we gain knowledge for crafting in A17-A20 which could have no connection between the action and what is learned. This bit never bothered me but I know it bothered a lot of people and A21 definitely rectifies the thematic gaining of knowledge.

 

[meganoth]

This is true, but there is a difference in A21. You can no longer skip tiers by a lucky find. This makes the game a bit more boring and predictable in my eyes.

I think you described it as a railroad trip. It always goes in the same direction and only the speed varies.

Yes, this is my personal worry. Though lets be honest, finding that tier3 recipe early might be the highlight of a game but it is a pyrrhic victory as it often means you walk through the middle game too easy.

It is interesting, on one hand I would like surprise finds of OP stuff for variety, but hate them for making the game too easy.

 

[RipClaw]

Yes, this is my personal worry. Though lets be honest, finding that tier3 recipe early might be the highlight of a game but it is a pyrrhic victory as it often means you walk through the middle game too easy.

It is interesting, on one hand I would like surprise finds of OP stuff for variety, but hate them for making the game too easy.

I saw something in the Apocalypse Now mod the other day that might solve this problem.

You can find legendary weapons and tools in this mod. They are extremely strong but you can't repair them. So you have to use these items sparingly.

 

[Beelzebubs Ghost]

100%.

But you know, its the EA syndrome: knowing whats fun for us better than ourselves. That was literally Joel responding players in previous diaries.

The game is far more beautiful than before, PoIs and vehicles are more diverse, many game-breaking bugs were fixed. Who doesn't remember the zombies running in circles? minibikes disappearing and driving at 15 fps?

Yet the game itself feels more empty. Thats where the frustration lies, we got suberb improvements on what was missing before, but lost what we already had. Like.. why?

PS.: Careful, kuosimodo is here. Dude is a dislike machine, every single dislike in this page has his name

He perpetually dislikes posts without criticism and its tantamount to passive aggressive harrassment.

But because of this he is worthy of zero consideration. I would happily engage him in a constructive discussion should he (or she) wish to have one.

Btw I agree again on the empty feeling. I've noticed I've become bored a lot sooner on these updates.

The beautiful cities are unfortunate lagfests, the drone caused tremendous slowdowns with vehicle updates, and the zombies are great with HD models but hordes of clones undoes the efforts to beautify the rest of the world (which has admittedly come a long way.)

I think in some sense we have lost more (in value) than what we have gained (in fluff.)

 

[danielspoa]

Have you tried feral sense or going into cities? 

I did. Feral sense made the game harder, but in an unrealistic way and without making it more complex or adding interesting mechanics. For that purpose I settled with Walker Sim later.

As for cities its pretty standard: everyone sits at a city's border near the trader. Trader which is completely broken balance-wise, but thats for another day.

I saw something in the Apocalypse Now mod the other day that might solve this problem.

You can find legendary weapons and tools in this mod. They are extremely strong but you can't repair them. So you have to use these items sparingly.

wait I had that in A19 oO

I had modified textures for the legendary items, and logic was the same: stronger but no repair. I found the texture files here, just excuse my poor choice of colors: screenshot - substance painter

 

[danielspoa]

so... messages moved again?

 

[Diragor]

It's always like this. They announce a big change, some people hate on it. Then it gets released and no ones crying about it. I Love the LBL idea and I want to try it out as soon as possible. Cause I hate it, that I am forced to spend most points into INT to get any progress (Forge, workbench, traps, electricity, etc.)

These magazines are a great change. I can finally skill what I want without worrying that I can't craft the forge without INT. Also If you want to play this game without looting, then go play with this:

F1>Type in "cm">tap the "U" button on your keyboard and pick every item you need.

Stop crying about a change before ever trying it out. It will be awesome! and it finally stops my uncle from mining all day and getting the most progress cause he builds a lot. Now he MUST loot sometimes

 

[Jost Amman]

Btw I agree again on the empty feeling. I've noticed I've become bored a lot sooner on these updates.

That's probably just (mostly) game "burnout".

 

[Beelzebubs Ghost]

That's probably just (mostly) game "burnout".

I understand some people experience it, though I dropped 7 days about 2 months ago and won't likely touch it again until another big update. I can confidently say in my case; at least in this instance, it isn't game burnout.

There was enough there to take me back to the game after the latest Alpha, but there really wasn't enough there to keep me. 

I play with friends too and the lag issues in cities as I've mentioned, as well as the weird vehicle update checks for the drone took out two of the most anticipated features for me.

I have other games to play, and study, so my play time is pretty balanced, but as people have discussed the game has lost a lot of good stuff and is filling with mediocrity. Take one example to make my point - the developers are spending time on old car wrecks and adding new vehicles, none of which are driveable - and adding new doors and other fluff.

If a poll were conducted on whether the devs should spend their time on those things or adding real variety in the form of new zombies - I am pretty confident the latter would get the vote. It's rather puzzling to see this isn't happening.

Re: The driveable vehicles. @faatal stated they wouldn't because theres no internal work done on them, that is if I have interpreted him correctly. Sad.

 

[beerfly]

You won't get another drop of information about it from me though. 

*preparing a bucket*

Can`t wait for more drops from the devs, thanks !

 

[RipClaw]

It's always like this. They announce a big change, some people hate on it. Then it gets released and no ones crying about it.

I wouldn't say that. After the release of first experimental you will read many such comments again and after the release of the stable again. Not everyone actively tracks the development and therefore many will only notice this change later.
 

Stop crying about a change before ever trying it out. It will be awesome! and it finally stops my uncle from mining all day and getting the most progress cause he builds a lot. Now he MUST loot sometimes

Stop being so hyped about something you haven't tried yet. You might not like it after all. 

And as for your uncle, maybe he likes mining and building. If you also want to have the progress, why don't both of you swap roles and you go into the mine and build. Unless you don't like mining and building. Then be grateful that he handles this part while you can do what you like.

 

[Jost Amman]

Take one example to make my point - the developers are spending time on old car wrecks and adding new vehicles, none of which are driveable - and adding new doors and other fluff.

If a poll were conducted on whether the devs should spend their time on those things or adding real variety in the form of new zombies - I am pretty confident the latter would get the vote. It's rather puzzling to see this isn't happening.

I'm quite surprised that in this statement, you're making the same mistake as an average uninformed player would do.

Everyone who knows how game studio development works, or at least everyone (like me) who's read about it over several years knows, will tell you that the "devs" who work on car wrecks and doors, are not even in the same field of expertise as the ones (like faatal) who work on AI and drivable vehicles.

Also, consider this: we're nearing release! Yes, I know, it's probably still a few years away... but my point is that TFP are now, IMO, in that part of the development cycle where you start making all the hard decisions. Time is limited, and so are dev resources. People are becoming more and more impatient, but you need to finalize the remaining systems the way you want them. So, on one hand, they're refurbishing the crafting system because it makes more sense than the current one, while on the other hand they also need to lock down the systems that are not ready for release at all (like water).

Considering all this, it's no surprise the devs are not going to add more vehicles or improve electricity or add more zombies. These are all system that already work ok.

Maybe in the future, after release or even during Beta, they'll actually ADD more stuff to the systems that work. But that won't compromise HOW the system works, it will just add more cake types to the selection.

 

[bdubyah]

Interactive Hazzards -- Is there a way to run the big red pipe through a wall? That is, is there some block that is part wall and part pipe, rather than leave a big square hole in a wall and then route a pipe through it?

I could be wrong, but it looks like it's based off the same trigger system the keyracks use currently. It could be that the pipe is more for decoration other than maybe the valve parts and where the fire comes out. Valve=keyrack, fire=door. Just a guess though.

 

[Diragor]

I wouldn't say that. After the release of first experimental you will read many such comments again and after the release of the stable again. Not everyone actively tracks the development and therefore many will only notice this change later.
 

Stop being so hyped about something you haven't tried yet. You might not like it after all. 

And as for your uncle, maybe he likes mining and building. If you also want to have the progress, why don't both of you swap roles and you go into the mine and build. Unless you don't like mining and building. Then be grateful that he handles this part while you can do what you like.

I Love mining and building. Thats why, when we (family) play together, we always have our own Bases and often test out different designs and test them solo or with multiple people. it's fun and everyone can have the full experience of the game.

 

[Callum123456789]

Question on the new skill books:  Will the previous perks from the old skill books still be available in other forms?  Do they unlock in order now as you get more and more books?  For instance for mining is there a way to find gold/gems while mining and eventually have the chance to auto-kill ore blocks?

oh im pretty sure those books are staying the magazines are just an addition not a replacement 

 

[Beelzebubs Ghost]

I'm quite surprised that in this statement, you're making the same mistake as an average uninformed player would do.

Everyone who knows how game studio development works, or at least everyone (like me) who's read about it over several years knows, will tell you that the "devs" who work on car wrecks and doors, are not even in the same field of expertise as the ones (like faatal) who work on AI and drivable vehicles.

Also, consider this: we're nearing release! Yes, I know, it's probably still a few years away... but my point is that TFP are now, IMO, in that part of the development cycle where you start making all the hard decisions. Time is limited, and so are dev resources. People are becoming more and more impatient, but you need to finalize the remaining systems the way you want them. So, on one hand, they're refurbishing the crafting system because it makes more sense than the current one, while on the other hand they also need to lock down the systems that are not ready for release at all (like water).

Considering all this, it's no surprise the devs are not going to add more vehicles or improve electricity or add more zombies. These are all system that already work ok.

Maybe in the future, after release or even during Beta, they'll actually ADD more stuff to the systems that work. But that won't compromise HOW the system works, it will just add more cake types to the selection.

I see your point but it's not my job to know what each developer does.

What I pointed out was what's being worked on and what isn't as far as we have been informed. You only have to replace 'Broken car replacement, new door creation, and fluff' with whatever Zombie creation devs are doing and my point remains and is perfectly salient.

 

[Syphon583]

Question on the new skill books:  Will the previous perks from the old skill books still be available in other forms?  Do they unlock in order now as you get more and more books?  For instance for mining is there a way to find gold/gems while mining and eventually have the chance to auto-kill ore blocks?

Madmole's original post wasn't entirely specific on this point, but he does mention that "books that used to unlock recipes will be reworked to do something else." No where does he state that the magazines are replacing them.