PC Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow

[Matt115]

Adding content is easier than balancing, but nevertheless we see new content once every 1.5 years in a very modest amount. And since there is no balance in the game and, for the reason you mentioned, will not be for many years, it would be logical to give players the opportunity to deal with balancing themselves - by increasing the number of options available when creating a world. I believe that it is orders of magnitude cheaper than creating a new T5 POI or writing NPC AI for most possible settings

Honestly yes and no -  this depends what option do you mean - even increase zombie number can be problematic ( performance etc)...  but descrease or increase zombie health could be easy

 

[bachgaman]

Honestly yes and no -  this depends what option do you mean - even increase zombie number can be problematic ( performance etc)...  but descrease or increase zombie health could be easy

It makes no sense to hide behind thinking through performance problems and so on, because it exists:



"Chaning this setting has a huge impact on perfomance. Change at your own risk."

 

[Matt115]

It makes no sense to hide behind thinking through performance problems and so on, because it exists:

View attachment 24268

"Chaning this setting has a huge impact on perfomance. Change at your own risk."

Yep, so there will be no chance to increase this into 128 for example.

 

[Demonoid74]

They will be just like zombies with weapons...except what makes them special is they will actively and constantly cuss you out in the most vile language you ever heard!
Things about your mother etc etc....

 

[Nevergrey]

Thanks for the info regarding bandits, Roland. I'm  very curious about them now.

I had some more or less dull ideas for future versions, but overall this game is already great. So what I really want to know (and I hope the relevant developer could answer this question):  What are the realistic system recommendations for enjoying A21 without any fundamental limitations? Are the recommended system specs (especially regarding CPU and memory) on Steam still correct (when not running a dedicated server)? 3.2 Ghz Quad Core CPU, 12 GB RAM? 

 

[bachgaman]

Yep, so there will be no chance to increase this into 128 for example.

Right. It would be more correct to make it possible to enter any value manually. But I have nothing against limits beyond frankly redundant values. So, how does such a limitation invalidate my claim that any conceivable setting can be added, regardless of its impact on performance, given the warning that those setting might cause lag? Also, do you seriously think that performance issues might surprise a player of this game?

 

[Nevergrey]

I reckon that 64 zeds spawning at once would already make the solo game unplayable because of performance issues. Did anyone here (aside from the developers) ever had all 64 Zombies in a solo game? What happened? Playing with 1 FPS?  

 

[Matt115]

Right. It would be more correct to make it possible to enter any value manually. But I have nothing against limits beyond frankly redundant values. So, how does such a limitation invalidate my claim that any conceivable setting can be added, regardless of its impact on performance, given the warning that those setting might cause lag? Also, do you seriously think that performance issues might surprise a player of this game?

Yes , people here have ideas like change zombie into parasite or mutant worms. i remember when i was looking for solution how fix a problem with stalker if good remember and one guy somehow by changing thing broke something in his computer ( i don't have good memory and i'm not IT guy ) so yeah people can do stupid things and then blame Devs. Sometime ago i guy was complaing that he can't play by 100 players. He didn't know it was private server made by outside company. 

So i'm maybe too hm... negative but i know that people can do so stupid thing that you can't expect

 

[Matt115]

"zombies with weapons" is just a phrase faatal used to mean that initially bandits will path and behave very similarly to the zombies except they will have weapons. Eventually they will have more sophisticated actions but the starting point will be pretty basic. He was not saying that they would be zombies and so not attack other zombies. Just as current zombies and hostile animals can and do attack each other, we can expect that zombies and bandits will attack each other.

We do not know yet exactly how ambitious the developers will get with bandit behaviors, tactics, goals, and coordination. All we know right now is where faatal shared with us that they will start out at.

Modders have already gotten pretty ambitious with the bandits that we already had from earlier versions so I am confident that at whatever point TFP decides to stop and say "good enough" where bandits are concerned, the community will be sure to take it farther. That is exactly the allure of mods-- that you can play a game that is beyond the scope of what the developers chose the default game to be.

So there is no reason to worry about bandits simply being zombies with guns forever and amen. The devs are going to start with that and then expand to a certain point and then others will certainly expand even more.

Well i hope they behaviour will pretty simple - i think nobody want tnt  spaming in destructible world. Well if moders what more advance AI for them - do you want you want. But it would be better if they AI will be just on typical medicore FPS level

 

[Nevergrey]

Well i hope they behaviour will pretty simple - i think nobody want tnt  spaming in destructible world. Well if moders what more advance AI for them - do you want you want. But it would be better if they AI will be just on typical medicore FPS level

Why not just making the AI of the bandits adjustable? Mediocre FPS level for default players, F.E.A.R.-AI for masochists.

 

[Matt115]

Why not just making the AI of the bandits adjustable? Mediocre FPS level for default players, F.E.A.R.-AI for masochists.

You are new here so i'm will try to explain my point of view. People as enemy  in zombie games are just annoing (with few example but i will back to this topic later). 

1. Do ever played in warhammer total war? One time i was plaing a battle lose 90% of man near city  and in next turn my ally show up a take capitol just for free.

Why i do say about that? someone sugget that bandits should loot you base. this is idea bad as hell. I too much tired to explain why this idea is so bad and i  have bad mood.

2. Dying light and dead rising is funny game until people show up - too accuracy ( and knowback in dead rising ) or few "stupid" location design when you just have to camp or spame granade in DL1. okay normaly in Dl1 bandits are pretty easy just bum head shot or special attack with melee weapon-- > they are just boring flies but you can easy deal with them. But in DL2 they change bandits into main enemy ( yes zombies are more popular but weak as hell and no volatiles and street + small number of special zombie on street). So now i here this same quots , see another "call backup" guy i want to turn off game and just go to sleep. Why? let say you stab zombie 15 times - well he is zombie so he can lose leg hand without problem but on 9 lvl bandits can survival burned alive and granades.  Yes 7dtd is diffrent game but there is a risk that bandits will bullet sponges.

3. More subjective that objective - if i want to fight with humans i will turn on bannerlord or cod.  But sometimes i'm tired about people so i want to don't think about that and just play in something to relax. So? What now ? - Cod Vanguard is bad, cold war have so small number of zombie variants that i have aversion. Well NZA are fun game but... you play one time and you don't have nothing to do - L4D2 is much better about that because  well you can radomly meet tank, weapons are in diffrent places, special zombie spawn radomly etc. but bots in this game... idk one time can do something and i fell relaxed. But next day  you can have 100 hp good guns etc and radomly die because smoker grab you and your bots will just watch how you are dying doing nothing. So - i don't want to deal with op snipers, think how to make  a base to don't worry that  random bandit with tnt will blow up it ( one time screamer respawn  in dark place under a balcony it was A16 or A17.

So yeah i don't want to getting tired with bandits. i just want to fight with zombies. So bandits can be fun for me when they will be rare and pretty simple not a ex special forces everywhere

 

[bachgaman]

Yes , people here have ideas like change zombie into parasite or mutant worms.

This is new content, I'm talking about working with what we have, not adding new models/mechanics/textures

i remember when i was looking for solution how fix a problem with stalker if good remember and one guy somehow by changing thing broke something in his computer ( i don't have good memory and i'm not IT guy ) so yeah people can do stupid things and then blame Devs

Sounds like a cool story, I can't imagine what you need to do with the game to permanently damage your PC

Sometime ago i guy was complaing that he can't play by 100 players. He didn't know it was private server made by outside company. 

So i'm maybe too hm... negative but i know that people can do so stupid thing that you can't expect

This does not justify the lack of settings. And not associated with them. Some person join to a custom server with extraordinary settings and have some problems. And what? Is it time to remove the multiplayer? According to your logic, this should be done to avoid such complaints

If your PC doesn't allow you to comfortably play on ultra settings, you just don't turn them on instead of turning them on and complaining about low fps, right?

 

[Adam the Waster]

Modders have already gotten pretty ambitious with the bandits that we already had from earlier versions so I am confident that at whatever point TFP decides to stop and say "good enough" where bandits are concerned, the community will be sure to take it farther. That is exactly the allure of mods-- that you can play a game that is beyond the scope of what the developers chose the default game to be.

So there is no reason to worry about bandits simply being zombies with guns forever and amen. The devs are going to start with that and then expand to a certain point and then others will certainly expand even more.

that kinda has me a bit worried, i hope that the TFP will do more then that. 

Sense they want to go too console thats kind of a crappy attitude, Its one thing as modders too make/make/add stuff. hell some things modders do is better then the developers (Very few but the ones who do are well know for their craft)

if they just kind of go. "ehh lets make them have zombie ai and call it a day" then thats not good

i know we may have like 3 or more alphas too go but still a thing too think about for them. 

 

[bachgaman]

that kinda has me a bit worried, i hope that the TFP will do more then that. 

Sense they want to go too console thats kind of a crappy attitude, Its one thing as modders too make/make/add stuff. hell some things modders do is better then the developers (Very few but the ones who do are well know for their craft)

if they just kind of go. "ehh lets make them have zombie ai and call it a day" then thats not good

i know we may have like 3 or more alphas too go but still a thing too think about for them. 

in my opinion, it would be better if they polished everything that is in the game now instead of developing bandits, drones and other content that does not make this game more replayable. Instead of this cumbersome wow content, dozens and hundreds of items, recipes, world settings, perks, etc. could be added.

 

[Adam the Waster]

Will the zombies be hostile to the bandits?

(if not, then I'm gonna have to hunt up some nukes...)

Everybody gangster still the zombies start shooting 

like that idea madmole talked about long ago... wonder if they will go through with that?

in my opinion, it would be better if they polished everything that is in the game now instead of developing bandits, drones and other content that does not make this game more replayable. Instead of this cumbersome wow content, dozens and hundreds of items, recipes, world settings, perks, etc. could be added.

i what think/hope they are doing is.
 

• add all the stuff they want added and slowly add improvements to make the game playable
  
• Phase out all the stuff they don't want RIP Iron block... i still love you
  
• Once the last alpha or 2. they are going to go hard on Polishing everything
  

I do agree with some of the stuff like world setting but this is not the place too talk about it lol, i made a whole google doc about world settings

 

[bdubyah]

in my opinion, it would be better if they polished everything that is in the game now instead of developing bandits, drones and other content that does not make this game more replayable. Instead of this cumbersome wow content, dozens and hundreds of items, recipes, world settings, perks, etc. could be added.

Bandits were a part of the kickstarter goals if I remember right. So they kind of have to add them. Would kinda suck for TFP to call the game done and roll out gold, only to be sued immediately for breaking their KS goals. 

 

[EggsAisle]

in my opinion, it would be better if they polished everything that is in the game now instead of developing bandits, drones and other content that does not make this game more replayable. Instead of this cumbersome wow content, dozens and hundreds of items, recipes, world settings, perks, etc. could be added.

I agreed with you about wanting more polish, and then you started talking about adding dozens or hundreds of things, which is... not polish. It's the opposite of polish. It's adding lots and lots of new rough content. So maybe I agree with you. Or maybe not. Hard to tell. 

Perks in this game are weird. TFP have tried a bunch of different systems, each of them janky in its own special way. Last time I heard about any plans MM was talking about separating crafting into its own skill system, which sounds like a good idea to me, but who knows where they'll go with it. 

 

[Roland]

if they just kind of go. "ehh lets make them have zombie ai and call it a day" then thats not good

Please go back and read what I wrote again. I didn't say that in any way, shape, or form. I don't know how far TFP is going to go with bandits but I do know that they are not going to stop at simply "ehh lets make them have zombie AI and call it a day". The entire point of my post was that that was the starting point. STARTING POINT.

You took everything I said, flushed it, and decided that what I was saying is that TFP may just make that the ending point.

My point about modders was that they will likely add even more to whatever TFP decides to do.

Just in case there is just too much tldr in this post as well let me finish with this:

TFP will not simply give bandits zombie AI and call it good enough. They will start with zombie AI and make them more sophisticated from there.

 

[Roland]

in my opinion, it would be better if they polished everything that is in the game now instead of developing bandits, drones and other content that does not make this game more replayable. Instead of this cumbersome wow content, dozens and hundreds of items, recipes, world settings, perks, etc. could be added.

They are not going to abandon their roadmap just because some people want them to stop with what they have and increase the variety of existing things. They have just a few new features they want to include and then they will look at additional options, settings, items, recipes, etc that they desire. It never has been a choice of bandits or more existing stuff. We can have it all.

 

[bachgaman]

They are not going to abandon their roadmap just because some people want them to stop with what they have and increase the variety of existing things. They have just a few new features they want to include and then they will look at additional options, settings, items, recipes, etc that they desire. It never has been a choice of bandits or more existing stuff. We can have it all.

Why abandon? Just postpone for another 7 years