PC Alpha 21 Dev Diary

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Laz Man said:
I'm all for reducing loot room cheesing, however,  if anything more is done about it, it hopefully shouldn't nerf off quest exploration.
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I believe this is a key point.

The issue isn't a quest one at all, it's that some POIs of the same tier have vastly different risk/reward ratios if the loot room is too easily accessible.

I appreciate the balancing of risk/reward while still promoting smart strategies that allow getting decent loot out of a POI without requiring pretty much a clear every time.

If the risk/reward was well balanced for different types of foray (e.g. total clear, surgical strike, maybe something in between for the largest POIs) so that a reasonable effort (in terms of time and zombie kills) had to be spent to achieve success, that would also make things like T5 fetch quests an option. I totally see why they're not with the current setup.

On that note, variable rewards in terms of trader progression for different quest types would be fantastic. Currently fetch and fetch clear both score 'reputation points' = POI tier while being wildly different in resources invested to complete.

I have a feeling this is stuff you folks are already looking at as a part of the factions, reputation system and whatnot slated for later alphas.

 
Catdaddy said:
In my perfect world, quests would be proximity-based, with the Beacon appearing when I enter the grounds. There would always be the normal cabinet stuff inside, but there would be no "Loot" unless I accept the quest. Quests would be "one-and-done" by default.
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Can't see how that could be a thing, especially in MP with no co-op.

Every single "normal world poi" would have no good final loot, but only when you get it active as a quest.

So no normal day to day raids possible, you're bound to trader quests when you want the good stuff.

And for the "anti-nerdpoling initiative":

I guess there will always be some possibilitiy to cheese in a fully destructible (and build-everywhere) world, and whatever mechanics to counter that, would maybe feel more cheesy than to actually leave it like it is now.

Let those double-dip guys have their fun if they want to, because you would kill the fun for the majority who doesn't use exploits when you introduce more restrictions.

I would not want those artificial limitations that you describe, cause I like the freedom of choice the game has to offer.

 
In the very beginning of A21 announcements, I jumped on the negativity bandwagon. I have over 2k hours in the game and have played since A16. I thought some of the changes sounded like a bad idea on paper, so I joined in with the negativity. 
However since I've tried to hold off any judgement of the new mechanics until I can see how they feel myself, I'm actually a lot more optimistic about A21. The kneejerk reactions from some are extremely strong, and I would urge people to take a step back and just wait to see how the game actually plays.

 
RipClaw said:
I don't see much difference between nerdpoling and putting a ladder on the outside of the building.
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precisely, but people want to control what everyone else is doing.

i use the ladders now and beings that they are in the shape menu... i can pick them up and use them else where just like the wood frames. so nothing gets accomplished by stopping the so called nerd polling with blocks to get to a level you need to get to. :)

oh and before the criticizers attack... "NO I do not use that as an exploit" to get to loot rooms. i actually enjoy the game. but i use nerd polling and ladders for building to which some people seem to want to stop because of others using them for exploiting... thats something that will always happen in games. :)

Gronal said:
In the very beginning of A21 announcements, I jumped on the negativity bandwagon. I have over 2k hours in the game and have played since A16. I thought some of the changes sounded like a bad idea on paper, so I joined in with the negativity. 
However since I've tried to hold off any judgement of the new mechanics until I can see how they feel myself, I'm actually a lot more optimistic about A21. The kneejerk reactions from some are extremely strong, and I would urge people to take a step back and just wait to see how the game actually plays.
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trust me, while some aspects i didnt like at first ... you do get used to them and before you know it, you are getting into the game again and not even thinking about it... i am glad i dont have to waste time with jars and with 2 of us playing, 2 dew collectors is very sufficient and easy going nomads.

 
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unholyjoe said:
trust me, while some aspects i didnt like at first ... you do get used to them and before you know it, you are getting into the game again and not even thinking about it... i am glad i dont have to waste time with jars and with 2 of us playing, 2 dew collectors is very sufficient and easy going nomads.
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The only thing I slowly start to grow negative towards is all you QA and forum mod guys being such a tease like "oh I would never go back to A20 now that I play/test/know A21 all the time"

Yeah thx, very kind of you for letting us know.

Really, I'm serious.

Thank you so much.

...maybe I'm not solely thankful but also a bit

jealous!
,if you didn't recognize it between the lines

😀

 
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unholyjoe said:
trust me, while some aspects i didnt like at first ... you do get used to them and before you know it, you are getting into the game again and not even thinking about it... i am glad i dont have to waste time with jars and with 2 of us playing, 2 dew collectors is very sufficient and easy going nomads.
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I have adapted to quite a bit and A21 will probably be no exception. I'll probably end up with a big garden with a farm of dew collectors on top.

I would be more interested in the balancing of the magazines. As someone who prefers to gather resources or build rather than loot, I hope the balancing is not based on someone who loots 7 days a week. If I can get a crucible and a T2 weapon before I reach gamestage 150 with 3-4 days of looting per week, I'm happy.

 
Can we have red curtains, or the possibility to use dye in furniture and curtains? I got this certain room to decorate at my base...

twin-peaks-2x20.webp

 
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meilodasreh said:
The only thing I slowly start to grow negative towards is all you QA and forum mod guys being such a tease like "oh I would never go back to A20 now that I play/test/know A21 all the time"

Yeah thx, very kind of you for letting us know.

Really, I'm serious.

Thank you so much.

...maybe I'm not solely thankful but also a bit

jealous!
,if you didn't recognize it between the lines

😀
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He forgot to mention that save games are often broken so restarting happens often.  Also, POIs are still being changed / updated every build so it's far from the relatively uninterrupted enjoyable state you guys are use to.

 
i personally wouldn't want to see the end of nerdpoling. I use it to get steel from telephone pole wrenching. now we could use ladders to get up there. but the frames block is glitchy. if you are full and the frame shape isnt on the exact wood block frame shape, it wont pick up the ladder shape. and that gets annoying. I prefer fun to small annoyances. I also use nerd poling while mining to start the main shaft, and at times, yes, that includes within range of a prefab.

 
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wolfbain5 said:
i personally wouldn't want to see the end of nerdpoling. I use it to get steel from telephone pole wrenching. now we could use ladders to get up there. but the frames block is glitchy. if you are full and the frame shape isnt on the exact wood block frame shape, it wont pick up the ladder shape. and that gets annoying. I prefer fun to small annoyances. I also use nerd poling while mining to start the main shaft, and at times, yes, that includes within range of a prefab.
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wow, so you are using a known-to-be-cheesy game mechanics exploit to get yourself a resource that you are not supposed to have early game?

You little progression-skipping telephone-pole-nerd-poling steel stealer!

shame on you, nemesis of madmole!!!

 
Removing the nerd poling won't really stop much.  You can always fly up there if you have a gyro.   We had a guy who always did that on the last server I played on.  I'm not sure what he's going to do in 21 since he won't get a gyro in the first week unless he plays 24/7 getting magazines.

 
I haven't seen anything to make me believe nerd-poling is going away. I didn't catch what Rick said regarding it in the video but I can't believe it was meant to convey that they will get rid of nerd-poling. It was discussed a long time ago and decided that it should remain and I haven't heard about any changes to that decision.

 
I thought that they stated since you can simply create ladders and do the same thing, there really wasn't any value of trying to remove nerd poling without affecting those that really getting into building in the game.

 
Roland said:
I haven't seen anything to make me believe nerd-poling is going away. I didn't catch what Rick said regarding it in the video but I can't believe it was meant to convey that they will get rid of nerd-poling. It was discussed a long time ago and decided that it should remain and I haven't heard about any changes to that decision.
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Around 13:40 in the video, it sounds like they were thinking of an on/off toggle switch for nerd-poling (off by default) but you can still nerd-pole in an LCB

But they also said they talked about it off/on and that it was a pet peeve of theirs, so maybe it was just them brainstorming something but not actually committing to it? Or perhaps a past idea that got scrapped?

 
I personally don't use nerd polling except when building. 

Now have I used it, sure. If it goes away, so be it. 

Now back to the traders/secret stash issue. I agree with others that traders are OP. 

I know it's been mentioned before but maybe limiting the traders money either daily or even to cycle with when their inventory restocks. I think that would go a long way in limiting their OP'ness.

 
I don't know that I'd rate nerd poles as a problem, but I'd likely be surprised at what people do with them. If this mental exercise is the topic du jour, then...

I could see changing frames to be very weak - one hit by a zombie or friendly fire breaks one and they break under the weight of a player character should the player (or a zombie) climb, jump, or land on one.

In these cases, the player has to spend time and materials improving them into a significant block. This doesn't stop somebody from building a way up to the top of a POI. It just slows it down. Nothing will, nor should, stop the construction of solutions. It only really stops tactical placement to escape zombies.

I'd be okay with fragile frames. It kind of sounds like a neat mod.

 
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In one past conversation about it in a team meeting the idea that most liked best was to give frames a native ladder attribute so that zombies could climb up after you and you as well could climb up and down them—-make them even more versatile like a scaffolding block but at the same time a liability since zombies could path up them as well. 
 

Honestly, the problem isn’t nerdpoling so much as it is designing a “treasure room” in an easy location like on a roof that can be so easily accessed by nerdpoling. If level designers take nerdpoling into consideration they can surely do some things to mitigate its abuse. 
 

That being said…I’ve always been for the removal of nerdpoling and even got its removal to be part of my mod back in the day thanks to the fact that figuring out how to make it happen intrigued someone who knew what they were doing. 

 
making them weak sounds fun. you climb up; zombie pulls a Mortal Kombat's "get over here!" smacks the frame and it all falls down. makeshift pushing the unsteady blocks over scenario

 
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Roland said:
In one past conversation about it in a team meeting the idea that most liked best was to give frames a native ladder attribute so that zombies could climb up after you and you as well could climb up and down them—-make them even more versatile like a scaffolding block but at the same time a liability since zombies could path up them as well. 
 

Honestly, the problem isn’t nerdpoling so much as it is designing a “treasure room” in an easy location like on a roof that can be so easily accessed by nerdpoling. If level designers take nerdpoling into consideration they can surely do some things to mitigate its abuse. 
 

That being said…I’ve always been for the removal of nerdpoling and even got its removal to be part of my mod back in the day thanks to the fact that figuring out how to make it happen intrigued someone who knew what they were doing. 
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Making them a ladder is brilliant. POI are not the only exploit. You can cheese boars, wolf hordes, dog hordes, zd hordes, cougars, bears  and general dangerous situations in the middle of the wilderness by just making fast frames in a split second, so making them ladders can be nice. As long as zds ignore the ladder attribute until you are actually ON the blocks and do not get glitched in front of the player due to frames being climbable then it's ok by me.

Anyway, it is a significant gameplay feature that can actually be a chore to balance if it stays in.

 
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