PC Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[Roland]

So will we still be able to find weapons and other items in loot? Because if not that will be another change that will have to be modded out. 

Loot must mean something other than just finding magazines to find parts and further recipes...

Yes, magazines have been added to the loot tables but random items with random stats have not been removed.

@madmole @Roland

New skills will only affect the quality and rank of items, as well as the discovery of new recipes?

Or will these skills also increase the player's ability to use one or another weapon and tool that the player constantly uses?

For example, now in Alpha 20 and down, if I want to use knives and sniper rifles equally effectively, then I have to buy levels of different attributes, but if I don’t like to use pistols and spears, it turns out that I am partially wasting experience points?

I hope I was able to explain my thought.

You learn new recipes as your skill level increases. You also gain the ability to craft already known recipes at a higher quality tier.

These new skills grant zero ability or advantage to the use of items. They are simply how we learn to craft things. So, as an example, the farming skill will be how seed crafting is unlocked but that's it. In order to get better yields and other advantages you have to perk into Living off the Land just like before.

In Alpha 21 to be able to use knives and sniper rifles equally effectively you will have to buy levels of different attributes exactly the way it is now. In order to be able to craft a sniper rifle and the machete at a high quality level you will need to find and read a lot of the respective magazines that lead to that knowledge.

The ability to craft weapons and tools have been separated completely away from the attributes. What you craft has nothing to do with any attribute you might perk into. However, the benefits and advantages for each weapon are exactly as connected to attributes as they have ever been. 

 

[Roland]

will recipes for thing's like anvils, bellows and  crucibles still drop or will those all unlock through the crafting skill tree?

are all recipes books  being replaced with training manuals?

All recipes unlock through the crafting skill tree. The Forge Ahead magazine unlocks those as you continue to find more of those magazines. Whole recipes for anything will no longer be a loot drop or a trader item or a quest reward or a perk ability. The only path for gaining any crafting recipe other than what you know at the beginning is by reading magazines.

I just will not keep relearning @%$#.

This particular change is simple. You don't have to relearn anything. It boils down to: read any magazine you find in loot or get as a quest reward. If you already know the game then you already know what recipes there are to be learned and the game will tell you whenever you unlock a new one or as soon as you can craft a better quality tier. Its all automatic and all you have to do is loot and read. The perks will be somewhat different but there's always time at night to peruse the perks and decide how you want to spend your points. It is a big change but it really carries a very small relearning barrier to it.

I will never have the same experience again.

You can play most past versions. Alpha 10 was the pinnacle of the game just before RPG elements started getting introduced in Alpha 11. It is classic 7 Days to Die sans RPG elements. PM me if you don't know how to load past versions of the game.

 

[Blake_]

We can consider it. Now that it requires great effort to reach the top skill level crafting Q6 doesn't feel so bad.

I'm absolutely in love with the new concept. For me, this game was too arbitrary in which item and weapon perks went where and it bothered me that some builds weighted more than others at a given point because of that.

I find Q6 crafting a good thing to implement , like at the very end of a magazine tree, BUT, I think the game would benefit from the legendary effects you talked about a while ago, but only in loot, as I believe the best of the best should still be found by looking around. Any word about those legendary bonuses?

 

[NukemDed]

it all makes sense to me. if you choose to specialise in a subject in real life, and you go to a bookshelf, you skim over the titles you already know, either searching for something specific or something different. therefore an expert in a field should be able to pick quality titles faster than a noob, except thru dumb luck, and ignore what he already has or knows.

for example, if looking at fishing books, i would ignore 'basic knots for beginners' and go for something like 'fine tuning your depth sounder'.

or in snow dogs case time magazine wouldnt register, but playboy on the other hand...

 

[Roland]

For me, this game was too arbitrary in which item and weapon perks went where and it bothered me that some builds weighted more than others at a given point because of that.

Its only for crafting though. All the bonuses granted by perks like damage increases and chance to dismember and cause bleed etc, are all tied to attributes in exactly the same way they are now. The only uncoupling of weapons and attributes is for crafting.

 

[Blake_]

Its only for crafting though. All the bonuses granted by perks like damage increases and chance to dismember and cause bleed etc, are all tied to attributes in exactly the same way they are now. The only uncoupling of weapons and attributes is for crafting.

Which was the main problem, really. Having to perk into some attribute because you want better quality wrenches no longer applies, not only that, now there is a possibility of being able to craft ( not only find) a q5 impact driver by yourself, if only through sheer luck.

 

[EggsAisle]

Hmm. My first impression is that this sounds like the best thought-out crafting system so far. Truthfully, I've never been a huge fan of how 7DTD handled crafting progression- the stone axe factory of LBD was rightfully ditched, but the perk system was clunky and veered wildly between mandatory and useless. This sounds more up my alley.

 

[Games'n'Grumble]

@madmole @Roland

How does the new crafting system combine with the new armor sets, because there are also many types of them? First, gloves are opened, for example, then a helmet, but the player can craft these elements from any set? Or...?

 

[Roland]

@madmole @Roland

How does the new crafting system combine with the new armor sets, because there are also many types of them? First, gloves are opened, for example, then a helmet, but the player can craft these elements from any set? Or...?

First cloth and scrap armor sets are opened at tier one and you work your way through tier 5. Then leather and iron armor sets are opened starting at tier 1 and progressing to tier 5 and then finally military and steel armor sets are opened starting at tier 1 and progressing to tier 5. You won't learn gloves and then helmet and then boots and then chest armor and then leg armor. You will learn the whole set of each version of light and heavy armor at those unlock skill levels.

As for the outfit sets discussed in the past there will obviously be adjustments made when those are implemented. As of now they are not. The new system uses the existing armor sets.

 

[POCKET951]

All recipes unlock through the crafting skill tree. The Forge Ahead magazine unlocks those as you continue to find more of those magazines. Whole recipes for anything will no longer be a loot drop or a trader item or a quest reward or a perk ability. The only path for gaining any crafting recipe other than what you know at the beginning is by reading 

I'm really happy about this change because it means I will never have a day 180 world where i still don't have an anvil recipe because I have over 300+ gamestage and the recipe will never drop. It takes away the rng of recipes and adds a deterministic system that you can fully grinsd while still being somewhat random.

 

[Games'n'Grumble]

First cloth and scrap armor sets are opened at tier one and you work your way through tier 5. Then leather and iron armor sets are opened starting at tier 1 and progressing to tier 5 and then finally military and steel armor sets are opened starting at tier 1 and progressing to tier 5. You won't learn gloves and then helmet and then boots and then chest armor and then leg armor. You will learn the whole set of each version of light and heavy armor at those unlock skill levels.

Oh... I thought that in A21 we are waiting for a redesigned armor? I mean the new sets that were mentioned earlier - the set of "nerd", "stalker", "miner" or something like that. In the roadmap A 20, they were moved to A21, so it's interesting how these sets will be combined with the new crafting system. Or are the sets canceled?

 

 

[POCKET951]

Oh... I thought that in A21 we are waiting for a redesigned armor? I mean the new sets that were mentioned earlier - the set of "nerd", "stalker", "miner" or something like that. In the roadmap A 20, they were moved to A21, so it's interesting how these sets will be combined with the new crafting system. Or are the sets canceled?

 View attachment 24897

That's an old dev diary and going forward with the A21 dev diary and onwards they will only add things to the list that are confirmed.

Maybe they are still working on it but it doesn't seem like it will be ready for A21? I don't work at TFP so don't quote me

 

[Roland]

The outfit sets are not implemented yet. I don’t think they are canceled. But presently the new crafting system uses the existing armor sets. 

 

[Kalex]

Hi all!
We're very busy on Alpha 21 but I thought I would share the new crafting system and looting changes with you.

There are now tons of new skills that govern unlocking and the quality of items in the game.

A few examples of crafting skills are shotguns, pistols, cooking, armorer, medical, etc.

Perks no longer unlock recipes or govern crafting skills. Many perks are being reworked to add value where before the main value was a recipe unlock.

Books no longer unlock recipes. The ones that did unlock items are being reworked to do something else.

Crafting skill is improved by finding magazines in the game. Mailboxes, file cabinets, book shelves etc can all contain various magazines that improve your skill.

Perking into shotguns for example, increases the odds of finding shotgun magazines, shotgun parts, and shotguns in loot. This makes early specialization work, and you are no longer at the will of the random numbers to find what you are looking for. There is still a chance to find other stuff, but you won't be level 100 and still using a brown double barrel because of random drops. Everything is weighted that you perk into. Once you find all 100 shotgun magazines, you will stop finding shotgun magazines so stuff that is still valuable to you will be found instead.

Skill ranges represent their unlocks. Some skills go to 100, others stop at 50, so they require less magazines read to max out.

All crafting ranges now do not overlap. For example with shotguns, skill 0 to 20 allows you to craft a brown to a blue pipe shotgun. Skill level 21-40 unlocks brown to blue double barrels. Skill level 41-75 unlocks brown to blue pump shotguns. 76-100 unlocks brown to blue auto shotguns. These numbers are just examples, I don't know the actual ranges, but now you don't just craft blue everything.

There is a new skill menu that has a few pages of skills that tracks what skill level you are at and shows what the skill unlocks.

How does it play?
Everyone on the team loves it. The search for technology is fun and you are always finding magazines and unlocking stuff every day. The magazines are useful for a very long time too, where before once you read a single schematic finding another was a disappointment. Now you always find useful magazines.

I found myself crafting nearly every range of pipe shotgun, stone axes etc. Even iron I would craft through most of the range. I would find some stuff and skip crafting for a bit, then when my skill superseded my item,  I'd be crafting again. I've never crafted so much stuff in years and it felt really great. You can no longer just sit around in your cave mining and level up and be crafting the best mining tools. You'll need to get out of the cave and search. However teams can still cooperate and share magazines with a dedicated crafter.

Traders sell magazines and offer magazines as rewards. I find myself taking those rewards quite often because it feels very rewarding to unlock things and level up your crafting skills.

Personally I love the new system. I've never seen a crafting system quite like this before, nor an intelligent loot system with deterministic random. It is playing very nice, and I'm really enjoying a long game. I like it because it feels realistic to read something and learn from it and the player can move through all the ranges of crafting and be making that choice... should I use my parts and craft a new gun, or wait another level? Personally I've always had enough parts to craft what I want because I find the parts for what I'm looking for instead of spear parts or whatever. So the new system weights the loot to what the player needs and it feels very rewarding and enjoyable to me and the testers.


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I didn't see stun baton listed there. Does it fall under some other category now?

 

[POCKET951]

I didn't see stun baton listed there. Does it fall under some other category now?

It's in robotics. It's just greyed out.

 

[Callum123456789]

Hi all!
We're very busy on Alpha 21 but I thought I would share the new crafting system and looting changes with you.

There are now tons of new skills that govern unlocking and the quality of items in the game.

A few examples of crafting skills are shotguns, pistols, cooking, armorer, medical, etc.

Perks no longer unlock recipes or govern crafting skills. Many perks are being reworked to add value where before the main value was a recipe unlock.

Books no longer unlock recipes. The ones that did unlock items are being reworked to do something else.

Crafting skill is improved by finding magazines in the game. Mailboxes, file cabinets, book shelves etc can all contain various magazines that improve your skill.

Perking into shotguns for example, increases the odds of finding shotgun magazines, shotgun parts, and shotguns in loot. This makes early specialization work, and you are no longer at the will of the random numbers to find what you are looking for. There is still a chance to find other stuff, but you won't be level 100 and still using a brown double barrel because of random drops. Everything is weighted that you perk into. Once you find all 100 shotgun magazines, you will stop finding shotgun magazines so stuff that is still valuable to you will be found instead.

Skill ranges represent their unlocks. Some skills go to 100, others stop at 50, so they require less magazines read to max out.

All crafting ranges now do not overlap. For example with shotguns, skill 0 to 20 allows you to craft a brown to a blue pipe shotgun. Skill level 21-40 unlocks brown to blue double barrels. Skill level 41-75 unlocks brown to blue pump shotguns. 76-100 unlocks brown to blue auto shotguns. These numbers are just examples, I don't know the actual ranges, but now you don't just craft blue everything.

There is a new skill menu that has a few pages of skills that tracks what skill level you are at and shows what the skill unlocks.

How does it play?
Everyone on the team loves it. The search for technology is fun and you are always finding magazines and unlocking stuff every day. The magazines are useful for a very long time too, where before once you read a single schematic finding another was a disappointment. Now you always find useful magazines.

I found myself crafting nearly every range of pipe shotgun, stone axes etc. Even iron I would craft through most of the range. I would find some stuff and skip crafting for a bit, then when my skill superseded my item,  I'd be crafting again. I've never crafted so much stuff in years and it felt really great. You can no longer just sit around in your cave mining and level up and be crafting the best mining tools. You'll need to get out of the cave and search. However teams can still cooperate and share magazines with a dedicated crafter.

Traders sell magazines and offer magazines as rewards. I find myself taking those rewards quite often because it feels very rewarding to unlock things and level up your crafting skills.

Personally I love the new system. I've never seen a crafting system quite like this before, nor an intelligent loot system with deterministic random. It is playing very nice, and I'm really enjoying a long game. I like it because it feels realistic to read something and learn from it and the player can move through all the ranges of crafting and be making that choice... should I use my parts and craft a new gun, or wait another level? Personally I've always had enough parts to craft what I want because I find the parts for what I'm looking for instead of spear parts or whatever. So the new system weights the loot to what the player needs and it feels very rewarding and enjoyable to me and the testers.


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madmole......this is f'ing fantastic! i think this is a huge change and one that will be very welcomed this is definitely something we will all get to enjoy! cant wait to play with this myself when it drops

My take on it is that Q6 gear is too frequently and easily given out as quest rewards...

+1 to this out of 5 tier 4 poi's i usually get 1 or 2 tier 6 items which could be a lvl 6 comp crossbow or military leg armour as an example

 

[KhaineGB]

At first glance, I would lower those numbers and allow the player to purchase levels with points (and make it progressively more expensive).

That way, you don't get screwed by RNG, so you CAN Spend points if you're just getting frustrated.

 

[Jost Amman]

At first glance, I would lower those numbers and allow the player to purchase levels with points (and make it progressively more expensive).

That way, you don't get screwed by RNG, so you CAN Spend points if you're just getting frustrated.

I understand where you (we) are coming from, but by doing that we would be back to points "magically teaching you new recipes" (which from what I understand is the opposite of what they intend to do here). When you put points into perks, instead, you can at least pretend you learned that stuff while fighting, looting and doing "stuff".

 

[KhaineGB]

Given that  you also earn XP from crafting, it's not that unreasonable

 

[Jost Amman]

Given that  you also earn XP from crafting, it's not that unreasonable

You just made me think about an idea... it would be really cool to have some kind of "inventor" skill, where the higher the level, the higher the possibility to "invent" a new recipe while crafting something. Of course, you'd need to invent something in the "category" of what you're crafting, or it would be silly. So, for example, if you're crafting guns, you may have the chance to figure out the recipe for a gun you don't know how to craft yet.  :mod: