PC Alpha 19 Dev Diary

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Xtrakicking said:
Forgive me for this, but that's what a survival game is. The point is to find food to sustain yourself, and is also a main premise of this game in particular. It seems you're more into looter shooter games like STALKER, which is fine, but for a survival game such as this one it would be a bit of a downer, especially for the survival enthusiasts (one of the main target audience), to see the basics of the survival aspect dumbed down in the final product.
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Well we shall have to wait for A20 to see what changes they will make to the food system.

I have no problems running to get murky water and boil it clean, or driving around kill a boar, bear wolf, deer ect.

With meat a single bear could sustain you for weeks on end in real life, eat want you now and if you dont have electricity.

  • You can smoke it
  • Salt it
  • Turn it Into Biltong
  • Store it in a cool room (what they used to do in the 1800s)
If you have electricity like we do in 7d2d then its easy.

Get a bunch of solar panels, build few battery banks and liberate some fridges and Freezers and your golden.

In the end its a game that the Fun Pimps are building and they have said time and time again, they will go for gameplay and fun over realism.

Now onto something completely different - I have done a fair amount of research but I am not sure I fully understand the benefits of the new linear lighting system.

So far what I can find it mentions that it gives your more colour accurate lighting that matches the what the artist had in mind instead of the compromise of the old system.

Am I correct in saying that if not please correct me as I am busy with my next video and this is a part of it.

Thanks

 
Annihilatorza said:
So far what I can find it mentions that it gives your more colour accurate lighting that matches the what the artist had in mind instead of the compromise of the old system.
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It's still a compromise, just less of one.  The maths for a truly accurate representation of photonic behaviour is beyond most computers.  :-)

The future of gaming graphics has already been written.  The real technological innovation comes from the movie industry, they have the time and resources to spend hours rendering a single frame.  This means they can experiment with various systems that may later make their way to the gaming industry where the constraints are far tighter.

 
Ranzera said:
Nope. I'd say this is a pretty common veteran strategy for day one.
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So here's my Day 1 super veteran secret:

1) You take the pile of grass and sticks and make a mud mixture the with your water and some dirt.

2) Form all that into a life like female deer (preferably with a "come hither" look to her).

3) When the male deer approaches and gets ready for romance, and while in you;re still in the ninja tree suit (I've explained on how to make a ninja tree suit before) and kick him in his dear deer balls!  Veteran secret: (Using 2 rocks smashed together will only kill the deer and you are after bigger stuff)

This should enrage the male deer to hunt down all female deer on the map and kill them in various horribly graphic ways.

You just follow the deer in your ninja tree suit and pick up whats left.

Was that your secret too?

 
Guppycur said:
The point is, why have food in the game at all if it's such a trivial post script that's over by day 2? 

Just remove it entirely, since all it sounds like it's good for is a plus with no (in practice) negatives.  Eat bad food, lose some hp.  Eat some good food, get it back.  It's a wash. 
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Exactly my sentiment. If hunger and thirst, the basics of a survival game, are such low concern mechanics that don't present any challenge, it almost seems pointless to have them.

 
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madmole said:
Probably when we hired more testers. I think even 4-5 people can chew through all the meat in no time, these guys are like rambo savages. I hopped on one time half an hour after they got started and every nest and POI was picked clean and not a single animal seen by me.
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Mr. Mole i cant stress enough how thankful i am that you guys now look into MP Balance and Gameplay :)

 
Xtrakicking said:
Exactly my sentiment. If hunger and thirst, the basics of a survival game, are such low concern mechanics that don't present any challenge, it almost seems pointless to have them.
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If I'm being completely honest, in general I think hunger is the most tedious and boring system of any and every game. I have played A LOT of videogames, each and every one which has hunger in some form has never fulfilled my expectations. What are my expectations? Thrill and fun of having to eat and then overcome it almost completely in a way that doesn't make it repetitive and instead generates emergent gameplay in the form of different not-too-overbearing hurdles.

7dtd' s is going on the path of perfection by adding and deleting redundant stuff and is shaping up to be my favourite hunger/medicine management system . I must say I like it in a18. Poisoning was boring and unrewarding in my opinion.

The system still has some polishing and refining left, but I like what I read. I only hope for the food to remain relevant to the "survival" description while remaining fun.

Can we have some tales about the current hunger/medicine system? Roland, MM?

 
Blake_ said:
If I'm being completely honest, in general I think hunger is the most tedious and boring system of any and every game. I have played A LOT of videogames, each and every one which has hunger in some form has never fulfilled my expectations. What are my expectations? Thrill and fun of having to eat and then overcome it almost completely in a way that doesn't make it repetitive and instead generates emergent gameplay in the form of different not-too-overbearing hurdles.

7dtd' s is going on the path of perfection by adding and deleting redundant stuff and is shaping up to be my favourite hunger/medicine management system . I must say I like it in a18. Poisoning was boring and unrewarding in my opinion.

The system still has some polishing and refining left, but I like what I read. I only hope for the food to remain relevant to the "survival" description while remaining fun.

Can we have some tales about the current hunger/medicine system? Roland, MM?
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It all depends on how the mechanic is developed. It's true that many survival games don't know how to make the mechanic fun, but I've played some which ARE fun and also immersive.

Take The Forest, for example. The hunger mechanic is fun and immersive, because you're stranded in a mysterious island, and you need to explore, hunt and gather provisions in order to survive. It's really thrilling when your character starts to get hungry, and you know you're gonna have to prepare and venture into the unknown dangers of the forest to avoid starvation.

Sometimes, you find yourself in situations that force you to kill the crazy cannibals in the island, and eat them, because you don't have food. It's crazy, it's creepy, and that's what makes it fun.

So again, it depends on how it's handled. In 7dtd, food poisoning was there to have some level of balancing over food items. It was there to give players a reason to craft a campfire, cook their meals and get better quality food, preventing players from just eating garbage and rotten food. Now that it's gone, we'll just have to see what the devs do to balance out food.

Blake_ said:
Can we have some tales about the current hunger/medicine system? Roland, MM?
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+1

 
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Laz Man said:
By that logic, most survival games should remove food....
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Well, I agree that there are very crappy survival games out there, with hunger and thirst mechanics that don't present any challenge. I'm not saying removing food would solve their problems, I'm saying that it would make no big difference, since their hunger mechanics are crap anyways.

 
Xtrakicking said:
Well, I agree that there are very crappy survival games out there, with hunger and thirst mechanics that don't present any challenge. I'm not saying removing food would solve their problems, I'm saying that it would make no big difference, since their hunger mechanics are crap anyways.
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Is it wrong for the devs to try and find a food system that is different but fun?  Let's give it a try and see if it is better or worse then what came before.

 
Laz Man said:
Is it wrong for the devs to try and find a food system that is different but fun?  Let's give it a try and see if it is better or worse then what came before.
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Absolutely not. We're still in alpha, so there's still time for things to be fleshed out and balanced. I do think expressing one's concern is important, especially when the concern is shared by more than one person. That fact is, in the end, one of the reasons why the devs try different things.

 
Blake_ said:
Can we have some tales about the current hunger/medicine system? Roland, MM?
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And make sure the tales are multiplayer, using a dedicated server,  with at least 7 others players.   Or else they are irrelevant to balance.

 
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Xtrakicking said:
It all depends on how the mechanic is developed. It's true that many survival games don't know how to make the mechanic fun, but I've played some which ARE fun and also immersive.

Take The Forest, for example. The hunger mechanic is fun and immersive, because you're stranded in a mysterious island, and you need to explore, hunt and gather provisions in order to survive. It's really thrilling when your character starts to get hungry, and you know you're gonna have to prepare and venture into the unknown dangers of the forest to avoid starvation.

Sometimes, you find yourself in situations that force you to kill the crazy cannibals in the island, and eat them, because you don't have food. It's crazy, it's creepy, and that's what makes it fun.
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Hmm... maybe we played different Forest games lol.

In the forest food is as sure as death, once you learn how to hunt birds/squirrels or fish you're set, they're EVERYWHERE.

The only time you find yourself in the situation you describe is if you didn't plan ahead.

The Forest food/hunting mechanics is surely immersive, but I wouldn't call it "fun", it's just the same repetitive stuff over and over again.

Maybe it's fun the few first times while you're getting the hang of it, but after that is as bland as in every other survival game.

7D2D however, has the potential to keep the food management gameplay (at least) interesting.

The problem I see is that whatever food game-mechanics they choose, it must be very difficult to find the perfect formula to balance the game both for SP and MP.

IMO TFP should focus on SP food balance first, since from what I gather it's the majority of players out there (it's just an educated guess).

Later they can still add some MP settings to help everyone balance food for themselves by customizing their own servers. It's a win-win.

 
Now sit right back and you’ll hear a tale—the tale of a fateful sip. 

That started from this murky lake. There was no tiny ship....

I dunno... I can’t think of anything super exciting about this aspect of the game. Eating canned food and charred meat is going to result in you having to eat frequently. Eating prepared food is going to result in you staying  energized longer.  Stuff stacks so if you have dysentery, a sprained arm, and deep lacerations then your max health is going to be really low. You can risk going on with your activities and wait for those effects to heal over time or you can abandon your plans and work on getting healed up. It seems to work well.
 
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Jost Amman said:
IMO TFP should focus on SP food balance first, since from what I gather it's the majority of players out there (it's just an educated guess).

Later they can still add some MP settings to help everyone balance food for themselves by customizing their own servers. It's a win-win.
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Exactly.  It seems the ENTIRE GAME is balanced around SP and small group co-op -- except for food, which is balanced for a higher player count, competing for food. 

 
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Jost Amman said:
Hmm... maybe we played different Forest games lol.

In the forest food is as sure as death, once you learn how to hunt birds/squirrels or fish you're set, they're EVERYWHERE.

The only time you find yourself in the situation you describe is if you didn't plan ahead.

The Forest food/hunting mechanics is surely immersive, but I wouldn't call it "fun", it's just the same repetitive stuff over and over again.

Maybe it's fun the few first times while you're getting the hang of it, but after that is as bland as in every other survival game.

7D2D however, has the potential to keep the food management gameplay (at least) interesting.

The problem I see is that whatever food game-mechanics they choose, it must be very difficult to find the perfect formula to balance the game both for SP and MP.

IMO TFP should focus on SP food balance first, since from what I gather it's the majority of players out there (it's just an educated guess).

Later they can still add some MP settings to help everyone balance food for themselves by customizing their own servers. It's a win-win.
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Well, guess what Forest has that 7dtd doesn't. That's right, food spoilage. You can try and hunt as many animals as you want, but:

1. You can only carry so much meat in your inventory.

2. That meat spoils if you don't cook and eat it.

What does this mean in terms of gameplay? That if you aren't careful and decide to explore a cave, for example, you will starve to death... Or kill and eat some cannibals.

So, The Forest presents a survival system that is actually threatening to the player. Whether if you find the end result fun or not, I think that's the minimum a hunger/thirst system should present, don't you think? Otherwise, what's the use of it? You can starve to death or die of thirst if you aren't careful. That's just not the case in 7dtd Singleplayer, considering the abundance of food that you can hold on to forever, and the little consequences of eating bad food.

But yeah, I think the point has been made. Let's hope the hunger and thirst aspects get balanced.

 
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