PC Alpha 18 feedback and balancing thread

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Listen I am able to get a forge and workbench but like I was trying to say I am one person on a multiplayer server of 6 players and I listen to them complain about these things constantly and when I offer them those suggestions it just leads to complaining about being told how to play or not wanting to do those things. I really don't know what the solution is but I do know that 4 out of 6 players complaining about the same thing constantly may be something that the developers would like to know about.The forge, I never see for sale or find one to use. I always have to make a forge if I want access to one without exception. This is not a problem for me because I always use my first point to unlock it but I am one person and the other people for some reason would rather not spend that one point.

Workbenches are a little better and also a little worse. I personally rush to unlock this with my 4th point, but the other players again, don't want to make an INT build so they don't unlock this ability. You can find them in garages, sometimes working and the trader sometimes sells the plan for this, unlike the forge but if they don't find one by the time the gun they looted is broken the complaining commences.

This is just my personal preference, but a system like Ravenhearst where weapon and tool skills increase by usage and crafting skills are in the perk trees work better when the player wants to craft something that's in a different tree than the weapon and armor type they want to use. It would be nice to have that flexibility. I think it's really just an issue with the labeling of the perk trees. Maybe if they were called, Combat with all the weapons and armors in it. Gathering with the mining and farming skills, Crafting with the workbenches and chemistry in it. It sounds silly and more or less a name change but I think it might help with those complaints. I think. Maybe.
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Buying the forge-perk is a no-brainer, sure, that is why I didn't mention it. TFP needs to put a lot more forges into POIs for scavenging being a real alternative to buying that point.

Buying the workstation perk is an option, to play it safe, nothing more. In A18 half of the destroyed workstations have the recipe as loot. Lots of people now actually hope to find destroyed instead of working ones. You must be VERY unlucky to not get the recipe in a few days if you set your mind to it.

A while ago I made the suggestion to rename the attributes to class names or professions. AGI would be the Assassin, INT the Scientist, PER the Scavenger, STR the Miner, FOR the Brute or Commando. Maybe even with names so it is clear that Joe the Miner is a fan of shotguns, not every miner in the world. But Madmole waved the idea aside. Maybe when more people post similar ideas TFP might change their minds, who knows.

 
if its coop then make one for your mates

if its pvp laugh and enjoy your advantage that their stubbornness has given you.

i dont want to go to work today

no one is telling me i have to but i do to a degree if i want to survive and definitely have to if i want nice things .

anyway, 1 point on day 1 to be able to make a forge is cheap and a bit too easy imo. it should be harder to get.

 
Buying the forge-perk is a no-brainer, sure, that is why I didn't mention it. TFP needs to put a lot more forges into POIs for scavenging being a real alternative to buying that point.
Buying the workstation perk is an option, to play it safe, nothing more. In A18 half of the destroyed workstations have the recipe as loot. Lots of people now actually hope to find destroyed instead of working ones. You must be VERY unlucky to not get the recipe in a few days if you set your mind to it.

A while ago I made the suggestion to rename the attributes to class names or professions. AGI would be the Assassin, INT the Scientist, PER the Scavenger, STR the Miner, FOR the Brute or Commando. Maybe even with names so it is clear that Joe the Miner is a fan of shotguns, not every miner in the world. But Madmole waved the idea aside. Maybe when more people post similar ideas TFP might change their minds, who knows.
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Ew. Why do people want this game to be so bland? This isn't Fortnite or Apex Legends or Dota or something where everything has to be calculated for min-maxers. Pre-defined classes are the opposite of what should be in an open world survival game, and would further contribute to draining the water from what was at one time a deep experience with plenty of upside in the pipes.

 
Progression is too fast.
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Agreed there, pretty sure TFP see it too, you're joining a long queue of impassioned "slow it down!"s and they've agreed with several suggestions. I have high hopes that the early game will get some lovin', my own private success metric is keeping gunplay and trap usage to a minimum, melee, archery, molotovs, those are fun. And I haven't tried everything yet.

I have to spend my first 5 points in INT if I want to be self sufficient
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I don't. I spend one point in INT week 1, to get my very own forge, playing jack-of-all-trades traderless which I think qualifies as taking "self-sufficient" seriously. My SP startup perks are pete s.tyr 69er cardio, then chef and forge, then I'll run str up to 5 for the 3 pete and 4 s.tyr/69er before I start on food and health and workshop, then it's whatever I want. Seems to me somebody has to run 69er up to 4 or so, otherwise home invasions are just godawful slow. Similarly with cooking, somebody on the crew should have at least 2 of that. I can do without my very own workbench/chemstation for a while because there's always a working workbench handy in some garage or basement nearby and I don't need meds or molotovs until about week 3 or so, by which time the extra 7? points to build everything short of power is a mnior expense, a cost-of-doing-business affair and only one player needs to spend it. And two of that is for molotov production, my current favorite crowd control..

 
Ew. Why do people want this game to be so bland? This isn't Fortnite or Apex Legends or Dota or something where everything has to be calculated for min-maxers. Pre-defined classes are the opposite of what should be in an open world survival game, and would further contribute to draining the water from what was at one time a deep experience with plenty of upside in the pipes.
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Why does someone who uses a shotgun need a different build than someone who makes first aid kits. The system in place now places arbitrary restrictions on character development. No one wants predefined classes and that's the problem with the current system. If you want to do one thing you are pigeonholed into other totally irrelevant things that happen to be assigned to the same attribute.

I think if we separated choices of weapon, armor, gathering and crafting into different categories players would have more choices than they do now.

I'm not here to solve the percieved problem, just doing my best to communicate the collective useful feedback of my group of 6 players.

That is one part of it.

The other part is that the progression seems to be too fast, maybe too rng would be more accurate. I have an AK47, iron pickaxe, chainsaw and auger all because of rng loot in week 1. Another player has a motorcycle and another player is still looking for a workbench. If this is the developers intent then, bravo wai. If not, I think they'd like to know.

 
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Ew. Why do people want this game to be so bland? This isn't Fortnite or Apex Legends or Dota or something where everything has to be calculated for min-maxers. Pre-defined classes are the opposite of what should be in an open world survival game, and would further contribute to draining the water from what was at one time a deep experience with plenty of upside in the pipes.
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You probably misunderstood my post. It was about renaming the attributes to look like classes, there would be no change to gameplay at all.

 
a18 Balancing FeedbackProgression is too fast. I don't believe that level gating is a good solution since many perks have level requirements already. But, in my games I find a lot of AK47s, military armor and steel and power tools long before I feel like I should. I'm in week 1 for example and have an auger, chainsaw, 4 ak47s, 3 iron pickaxes and I can't even make a forge yet.

I have to spend my first 5 points in INT if I want to be self sufficient. Even in a multiplayer game we all feel like we need to do this in order to make our own basic crafting stations. I'm not sure what the solution to this is, but running around for two in-game weeks without a forge or workbench is really frustrating for players. I always unlock those things first but other players don't like being told how to play.

I may not be explaining this in a way that makes sense. When I offer solutions to struggling players they get upset that there choices are wrong because they're not getting the results they want for example from an agility build because they can't make repair kits without a workbench.
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Progression is only too fast at early game. Leveling up past lvl 50 is a female dog. I dont think it's too fast, just fairly unbalanced. Should be a bit slower earlier and not too ridiculous hard latter on. But for the items, it's a choice to use them. You know using advanced tools in the early game will drain stamina like hell and they will be crappy and you're gonna spend tons of repair kits. Maybe they are too abundant, but they are still a choice of resources you're gonna have to pay for that. (if the problem is getting forged iron to make repair kits, there's plenty of ways to get them without a forge)

About the forge, there's currently 5 ways to get them (the same applies to workbenches):

-Perk

-Finding working forges on POIs/traders

-Finding schematics on broken forges

-Finding schematics on trader

-Finding the forge per se on traders.

I think that's a fair amount of ways to obtaining them. Specially if you consider 4 of them dont involve spending SP. Unless the loot abundance in your server is below default, your people must be either not looking hard enough or just having a real case of bad luck on RNG. And remember you can even "trick the server" with POI's quests resets to get your way into finding those.

It's only logical that there are more workbenches available than forges. You walk around your neighborhood and ask how many of your neighbors have a forge in their house. Possibly none. But it's very likely some of them will have some sort of workbench.

Now, don't get me wrong. I agree with you that some of these stuff are unbalanced. I just dont agree with the arguments you're using to justify your point.

 
I honestly don't have an argument or point other than trying to articulate the collective feedback of a small group of the game's players based solely on the most common complaints I'm hearing. Sure, I can tell them their complaint is invalid but when I do that I don't expect them to say, you're right why didn't I realize that I was wrong, lol. Hopefully the devs can glean something useful from the feedback and if not maybe I'll come up with something more useful in the future.

 
I honestly don't have an argument or point other than trying to articulate the collective feedback of a small group of the game's players based solely on the most common complaints I'm hearing. Sure, I can tell them their complaint is invalid but when I do that I don't expect them to say, you're right why didn't I realize that I was wrong, lol. Hopefully the devs can glean something useful from the feedback and if not maybe I'll come up with something more useful in the future.
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These people would've a stroke if they played the game in A17 and earlier. THAT was when you were really forced to get things. Your people just lack patience. If they choose to not perk up into upgrades on INT, then they have to make do with what they've got and get it in other ways. That was always the intent behind A18. And it was a huge step in the right direction.

As it stands, Intellect tree is a must and everyone knows that. But playing without it is doable. (I know I have)

The problem with the argument "if I use a shotgun, why cant I craft first aid kits?" is simple: A18 perk system wasnt designed to be full one-tree spec. It was always announced that you'd have one primary tree, a secondary and maybe spread into a third one (if you felt like doing so). It's just different areas of knowledge: one is guns, the other is medicine. And you can have both, just dedicate yourself to learning both. But they simply dont walk together unless you (the player) want them to.

 
I feel like maybe I should just give up at this point. But simply telling the players that they lack the required patience to enjoy the game isn't a valid solution. I mind as well just tell them don't let the door hit them on the way out. So, 5 out of 6 players leave the game as a result. Mission accomplished?

I personally like Ravenhearst which brings back a lot of the busy work from previous alphas and 4/6 players seem to hate it. So, collectively we are glad that vanilla has moved in the direction that it has. However a few minor complaints remain, as exhaustively described in prior posts.

 
I feel like maybe I should just give up at this point. But simply telling the players that they lack the required patience to enjoy the game isn't a valid solution. I mind as well just tell them don't let the door hit them on the way out. So, 5 out of 6 players leave the game as a result. Mission accomplished?I personally like Ravenhearst which brings back a lot of the busy work from previous alphas and 4/6 players seem to hate it. So, collectively we are glad that vanilla has moved in the direction that it has. However a few minor complaints remain, as exhaustively described in prior posts.
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You wanted to give this feedback to the developers and since they read this forum, probably they have seen this. So your primary mission is accomplished.

The forum is also full with other players with different opinions who can and will discuss any ideas brought up. Don't think they have any say in this matter, although it sure helps if lots of people see it your way.

Hopefully your other players have some patience left though. Because even if you convinced a dev to make changes those can take many months until they arrive in vanilla. Did you think about the option to play previous alphas? Maybe some early alpha you've never seen before?

 
I feel like maybe I should just give up at this point. But simply telling the players that they lack the required patience to enjoy the game isn't a valid solution. I mind as well just tell them don't let the door hit them on the way out. So, 5 out of 6 players leave the game as a result. Mission accomplished?I personally like Ravenhearst which brings back a lot of the busy work from previous alphas and 4/6 players seem to hate it. So, collectively we are glad that vanilla has moved in the direction that it has. However a few minor complaints remain, as exhaustively described in prior posts.
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Here’s what you tell them:

The game is still in development and the balance isn’t where they want it yet but there will be changes.

What you all have to decide is whether you think you’ll want to play this game for the next couple of years and experience those changes or if it would be best to shelve it and come back to it later. If you think your group will lose interest before much longer maybe you should come back to it later and then everyone will be like “Yeah, that was a fun game with some problems back when we played it last year. Let’s give it another go and see if it’s better”

 
@Baratan

What you wrote is actually a positive thing.

Many on this forum will tell you that the vanilla progression is way too easy / too fast.

If others consider it too slow / too hard then we must be pretty close to the happy medium.

 
To be fair, there is still a lot of balance that's being worked on for the perks, leveling, and smoothing early to late game progress. You can see this information in a lot oft he posts by Madmole where he discusses it.

 
I've seen several youtubers saying "intellect tree is a must" and having played this game since A16, I can state that since A17 I have never ever put a single point into daring adventurer or charismatic nature. Sure you get benefits, but I dont think they are necessary. AT ALL.
I do agree with the better barter tho.

For the other perks, I think just removing the bonus from the perks would balance it out. I understand TFP wanna try to give some benefits to those who invest into the perks so they dont feel cheated later on, when you get schematics of stuff you already learned by perk. But I believe removing the bonuses would be a way to make intellect tree much less prioritizing.
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May I point out that if you have never put points in Daring Adventurer, you don't know what you are missing? Nothing is necessary, and I'm not saying it is. What I'm saying is that the impact of not having those skills in the Intellect tree far surpasses the impact of not having any other skill in any other attribute tree.

Daring Adventurer is not just "oh, more choices of the same thing". The first point you put into it, the third reward, is almost always ammunition. That's a huge impact early game, and very useful even late game.

 
If you are holding certain multi-shape blocks and aim at certain other multi-shape blocks, you can choose "copy shape" from the radial menu. Can we please have this enabled for ALL multi-shape blocks?

 
If you are holding certain multi-shape blocks and aim at certain other multi-shape blocks, you can choose "copy shape" from the radial menu. Can we please have this enabled for ALL multi-shape blocks?
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You can. Mind you, you can only copy wet concrete when placing a concrete block, you can only copy flagstone, when placing a flagstone block, etc. I very much doubt "copy shape" can be available between blocks because, atm, the game has no way of knowing when block shapes are equivalent. But, hey, I'm not TFP, and I'd like that too. :)

 
Hello!

I don't know if anyone has said this at all, so I will just state my opinion.

I have been playing for a while (probably not as much as most people here) and I found that in alpha 18 this game become more of an RPG than crafting. Like levels are REALLY necessary, and most of the time you go for combat skills. In contrast, experience from each zombie is rather low, which made me go farm experience by killing zombies, rather than crafting/collecting materials.

I also felt a little bit annoyed how I can't craft some things unless I have special parts. I mean, I HAVE to go looting around to be able to craft steel tools, guns and some armors. Also the fact that we can't craft quality 6 is pretty lame. Normally you only get quality 6 late game, so I think it would be nice to unlock it quality 6 as last quality in skill points or something like this.

Also think that farms are really annoying. Before you could harvest farm with the "Use action" (E), now I have to punch it to gather it? I mean, it really is annoying to farm, which make me not want to have a big farm and just focus on canned foods I get from houses. Maybe it was made to be like that, but I personally don't like it. In my point of view, I think farms should be hard to make and easy to harvest. In fact you could also add something that would need us to keep farm in check. Like have water every 2 blocks away from it, that would disappear every X days or something like this.

Regarding the blood moon. I'm not sure what the other players thought about this, but I didn't like it the infinite amount of zombies that come. Before I had to make a base to survive and kill zombies. Now i just have to endure it, since zombies won't stop coming until it is over. I think having a set amount of zombies for each blood moon would be better, and I would feel that each wave is indeed getting harder. I feel like the difficulty of waves only change because of the types of zombies.

I was playing Warrior difficulty, and I also felt that there weren't many hordes during normal days. I think having more hordes would make it more fun too. I am not sure if difficulty changes the frequency of random hordes during normal days, but increasing difficulty could increase the number of hordes. I am in day 37 and I only see lone screamers, and hardly any horde.

Anyway that is my opinion about what I have been playing. Not sure if anyone mentioned anything about it or if others agree of not with me.

 
TFP want us to get out and loot more, instead of staying in the base crafting. So this is by design, and I doubt our opinions will change their minds about the crafting and looting aspects. As far as the farm goes (I may be incorrect) hitting the plant to harvest instead of the 'use' key changed due to the lag caused by the old method of farming. Previously the game recalculated stability (I think) when the plants were harvested and it resulted in quite a bit of lag, especially in multiplayer servers. As far as blood moon horde is concerned... it's heavily based on gamestage, but you can change how many BM zombies are spawned at once in the settings if you think it's too much. I usually have my BM spawns and running speeds turned down because my computer gets low FPS (Side note, since the latest experimental 18.4 dropped I have reached 30+ fps and I haven't seen that good of a performance since A16 ended.)

 
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