PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[madmole]

And to be eve more muddy, I mean clear, repair kits might stay, lol. After seeing how much localization there is... maybe we will just simplify the recipe.

 

[beerfly]

I think complex crafts are interesting. Overly complex repair is bad design.

This^^ !

 

[x.Sharky.x]

Hear hear! Yes, that.

I've been asking around but no response about the unfortunate glitch on disappearing vehicles - the most common thing I noticed whas that they're really high up, past the "sky limit". ppl claimed they dug some of them (teleported in ground) others built a ton of frames and used an 8x scope on that one pixel in the sky which happened to be their bike floating - essentially the vehicle either goes way up or down.

Anyway, pls code faster - I'm loving this game and waiting on A18 to play with my little brother

Cheers

 

[beerfly]

And to be eve more muddy, I mean clear, repair kits might stay, lol. After seeing how much localization there is... maybe we will just simplify the recipe.

Maybe you can tie it with some sort of efficiency perk ,where on perk level X, you need X repair kits to repair, reducing the amount needed with higher perk level. Will reduce some amount of resourses with the time.

 

[Trekkan]

You can mine forged steel? Mining is 10% of the game at best. If you weren't paying attention you'll need "pickaxe parts" to even craft a pickaxe. So you'll have to leave your base to get a better pickaxe. And as mentioned we might make pickaxe parts the repair requirement. In short, we're doing away with a 12 step repair kit, the rest is up for debate. I'm liking the idea of parts for repair the more I think about it.

Good, because I agree. Seriously though, I think that there needs to be more things that remove items from the game world. Using the same parts to repair makes more sense to me since this forces a player to decide if they want to just hoard weapons for repairs, or constantly make new ones using raw materials. Of course the balance has to be there, so its not too easy to loot guns/parts, otherwise, why craft 'em, etc?

I'd also like to see a way to force repairs to be done at a workstation or something as well, say a gunsmith station. General tools, etc.. maybe make easier to repair, but guns would be nice to say take perks in to you use less materials, and also need to have the perk to use the workstation. I dunno, something like that anyway that makes someone that is a gunsmith a little more "special" than just everyone being able to repair a rocket launcher.

 

[Roland]

Good, because I agree. Seriously though, I think that there needs to be more things that remove items from the game world. Using the same parts to repair makes more sense to me since this forces a player to decide if they want to just hoard weapons for repairs, or constantly make new ones using raw materials. Of course the balance has to be there, so its not too easy to loot guns/parts, otherwise, why craft 'em, etc?
I'd also like to see a way to force repairs to be done at a workstation or something as well, say a gunsmith station. General tools, etc.. maybe make easier to repair, but guns would be nice to say take perks in to you use less materials, and also need to have the perk to use the workstation. I dunno, something like that anyway that makes someone that is a gunsmith a little more "special" than just everyone being able to repair a rocket launcher.

Maybe keep the repair kit but make it a tool for the workbench (like the cooking pot for the forge) that allows for repairs to be done there more cheaply than when doing field repair. Then you still have the task of crafting it but just once per workbench and that would also give a reason to make repairs at the workbench. Field repairs in the backpack should be expensive in parts so that they are only used in emergency or you are paying for the convenience.

 

[RestInPieces]

I think complex crafts are interesting. Overly complex repair is bad design.

This may apply more to the first time you create/craft something (like with your real estate job), but in a game such as this it's not complexity that makes crafting or repair explicitly, interesting or dull...

If complexity in any activity doesn't have practical value (like gating it, or increasing its cost in a variety of ways) and something is overly complex, needlessly, just for the sake of being complex, then that is definitely bad design.

What you should focus on is the activity/item economy.

-For example - if you make the repair kit recipe simpler, will it be something to be coveted, or merely yet another thing that you must click on, like a bot, to craft in bulk, with your infinite resources and then click on your tool at standard time intervals to repair it (much like food)?

-Or for example, will you make guns rarer or will the player be swimming in gun parts?

That is what will really "make or break" the value of an activity.

And on another note, player builds shouldn't depend on RNG as they will clash with the way the player has already decided to play, but please don't be afraid to gate "major" parts of the game behind RNG like the vehicles. It's major parts of the game that make each playthrough different - not minor ones. And in the end, you still have a hundred of different ways to make sure the players will have access to these parts.

 

[Cazmyr]

The ability to scrap is enabled for anyone.We were going to unlock all shotgun crafting with rank 1, because who cares if you waste your parts making a faulty pump shotgun?

While I agree that it does not matter if someone makes a faulty T3 weapon, I thought you had been saying that the different Tiers would be earned through leveling up the perk. I could easily be remembering wrong though.

But you have said that T3 weapons will require steel, so that is the gate for T3 items.

So if you have Hammer/ Forge high enough to make steel, but Shotgun Messiah Rank 1, you can make a Brown Pump Shotgun.

I have no issue with that, just trying to get it.

 

[Aldranon]

Maybe keep the repair kit but make it a tool for the workbench (like the cooking pot for the forge) that allows for repairs to be done there more cheaply than when doing field repair. Then you still have the task of crafting it but just once per workbench and that would also give a reason to make repairs. Field repairs in the backpack should be expensive so that they are only used in emergency or you are paying for the convenience.

I cant imagine a person would wear out a weapon on one mission/excursion. That said some kind of station to make/repair weapons sound's great and also a cleaning kit for keeping the wear and tear down on the weapon.

Maybe after cleaning, your weapon is good for a stacks' worth of ammo before wear begins again.

 

[Trankitas]

And to be eve more muddy, I mean clear, repair kits might stay, lol. After seeing how much localization there is... maybe we will just simplify the recipe.

+1 on this

 

[meganoth]

Repair mechanic is meant to be an inconvenience at inopportune times, not meant to be a mini quest. Most players don't know how to make glue or duct tape, how to get oil, etc. Its an inconsistency, nearly everything in the game is repaired by one material. By this logic wood walls should need nails and wood to repair, cars would need engines, tires, or any random ingredient.

How did these players ever get a minibike built if they are this challenged? I would think a player has to know as a minimum how he can type in "glue" or "repair kit" in the craft interface to see if there is a recipe for it.

Anyway, there is a big difference between using weapon parts to repair a weapon and using only forged iron/steel. Both seem to be on the table at the moment.

The former is actually a good replacement for repair kit requiring some planning as you can't simply take all needed parts with you all the time.

The latter is removing any need for planning as you can already build and repair a lot of stuff with forged iron and steel. They are on the way to being indispensable items like the First Aid Bandage you always carry with you. Eventually every player will reserve 2 slots of his inventory (or the bike inv) for 2 big stacks of them and practically ignore them for the rest of the game. Still a resource sink but not something you really have to manage.

Also, the more you remove the value of stuff you get out by wrenching cars..., the more useless the Salvage perk gets. I can onyl speak for myself, but subjectively I'd say a point in Motherlode is already worth a lot more than a point in Salvage Operations. And the more you add uses for iron/steel the balance gets only worse.

 

[KhaineGB]

No we don't, some people are married to old legacy ideas. Trust me, repair kits were a sharp stick and complex crafting will be more rewarding and replace whatever void we leave here. If we would keep repair kits they would be greatly simplified.
We want to do repair quests, but when the team saw what it took to make a repair kit it was like who made this dumb idea? KISS for the win. Repair kits were overly complex. I think they were ok a few alphas ago, some forged iron, cloth and oil. Now they need duct tape which is a mini quest itself just to craft some.

They're really not...

Find pile of bones on the road, which you guys put in so we can get bones easier, add jar of dirty water... and if you're making forged iron then jars are SUPER easy to make.

Make duct tape with 1 glue and 1 cloth. Profit.

It's not hard at all.

What you call "Legacy" a lot of other folks consider to be enjoyable gameplay. There's literally no reason to make it any simpler than it already is, and I don't understand WHY you're all trying to make the game even simplier just to chase new players.

Realistically, with how long the game has been in alpha, you're not going to have a lot of new players. If you want to help them, then use the JOURNAL SYSTEM YOU HAVE to explain concepts. It's vastly underused right now and would be a good QOL improvement.

 

[Cazmyr]

You had been saying that an idea you liked was carrying just the base material to repair.

Stone, Iron or Steel.

This aligns with the tiers, obviously. SO:

Why not make Tiered repair kits, that are still simpler to make than they are now and as long as you keep your gear in the same tier you only have to carry 1 stack.

Possible Recipe Idea:

T1:

Scrap Iron

ANY gun part (throwing it out there)

Cloth

Oil (I would be good with keeping oil, but up to you)

T2:

Same, but Forged Iron and more gun parts

T3:

Same, but Forged Steel and more gun parts.

Is it possible to have a component be able to be filled by more than one thing? So it would not matter if it was 10 shotgun parts or 10 rifle parts it meets the requirement of 10 gun parts?

 

[n2n1]

What you call "Legacy" a lot of other folks consider to be enjoyable gameplay. There's literally no reason to make it any simpler than it already is, and I don't understand WHY you're all trying to make the game even simplier just to chase new players.

This.

@MM

In truth, you have not created anything interesting recently (for gameplay)...But this of course only my subjective opinion

You will soon remove all the accumulated features and dry up of Game.

 

[Gnomaana]

Nobody has a problem with how stone axes are repaired. Why should guns be a snowflake and use some weird item? This isn't day z where realism and klunky designs trump good game play.
By that logic ok no repair, how will you repair your fort? Just wait for blocks to break and replace it with a new one? No thanks.

We get it you guys like complex crafting, and that is coming. Just not for repair kits. Lets make crafting stuff that changes your in game life complex, not repair. Its rewarding to build a minibike collecting all the various pieces, but repair shouldn't be overly complex.

A) Of course no one has a problem with stone axes being easy to repair they are easy to make why should the repair be hard? Better item but harder to repair has worked so far just can't figure out why all of a sudden it is to complex for new players.

B) This whole discussion has been about item repair not structure repair. Why throw that in?

C) We obviously have vastly different ideas of what "overly complex" means. Not a single thing crafted in this game is overly complex. It would have to be complex to have a chance to be overly complex.

 

[Weazelsun]

You can mine forged steel? Mining is 10% of the game at best. If you weren't paying attention you'll need "pickaxe parts" to even craft a pickaxe. So you'll have to leave your base to get a better pickaxe. And as mentioned we might make pickaxe parts the repair requirement. In short, we're doing away with a 12 step repair kit, the rest is up for debate. I'm liking the idea of parts for repair the more I think about it.

A bit hyperbolic in the "12 step repair kit", right now in-game the repair only requires mechanical parts, duct tape, oil, and cloth. All of which are easy to obtain. Mechanical parts simply wrench everything you see cars, POI lights, broken stoves. Duct tape, easy to find in loot if your out. Oil again wrenching the cars and looting. Cloth, make it out of cotton and chop up the curtains in the POIs. Even my original response post was in regards to you saying that repair kits might go, and instead have tier 2/3 items repaired by forged iron or steel only.

Now as for items requiring parts to repair them? That does sound better I suppose. It's just that I worry it'll all become convoluted. Since let's go with pickaxes for example. In your new design, it sounds like pickaxe parts will be a universal resource to use to repair them, that's good. However, when it comes down to the weapons. If in your new design, instead the AK-47 can only be repaired by AK-47 parts, then I would say keep the repair kits.

So:

- I'm in favor of repair kits because it simplifies repairing weapons and vehicles

- However, I'm also in favor of the new design because it does feed my of looting itch

- On the other hand though, having more parts/resources to collect doesn't solve the problem of what the player does when they now have a ♥♥♥♥ load of pickaxe parts in their storage boxes (This is an entirely another topic)

Edit: To add even right now in-game especially with iron and steel tools. They both require forged iron and forged steel respecitively. That's extremely simple too. Now they'll be pickaxe axe parts.

 

[Can'tadian]

And to be eve more muddy, I mean clear, repair kits might stay, lol. After seeing how much localization there is... maybe we will just simplify the recipe.

Taking duck-tape out of the mix might be a good compromise

Honestly, who fixes a complex firearm with duck-tape (rhetorical, I'm sure some red-neck has done it)

 

[Weazelsun]

Maybe keep the repair kit but make it a tool for the workbench (like the cooking pot for the forge) that allows for repairs to be done there more cheaply than when doing field repair. Then you still have the task of crafting it but just once per workbench and that would also give a reason to make repairs at the workbench. Field repairs in the backpack should be expensive in parts so that they are only used in emergency or you are paying for the convenience.

I like this idea, as well. I'm going to die on my sword of repair kits staying in the game.

 

[KhaineGB]

Taking duck-tape out of the mix might be a good compromiseHonestly, who fixes a complex firearm with duck-tape (rhetorical, I'm sure some red-neck has done it)

I would because I have no idea how guns work... and duct tape fixes everything

 

[madmole]

This may apply more to the first time you create/craft something (like with your real estate job), but in a game such as this it's not complexity that makes crafting or repair explicitly, interesting or dull...
If complexity in any activity doesn't have practical value (like gating it, or increasing its cost in a variety of ways) and something is overly complex, needlessly, just for the sake of being complex, then that is definitely bad design.

What you should focus on is the activity/item economy.

-For example - if you make the repair kit recipe simpler, will it be something to be coveted, or merely yet another thing that you must click on, like a bot, to craft in bulk, with your infinite resources and then click on your tool at standard time intervals to repair it (much like food)?

-Or for example, will you make guns rarer or will the player be swimming in gun parts?

That is what will really "make or break" the value of an activity.

And on another note, player builds shouldn't depend on RNG as they will clash with the way the player has already decided to play, but please don't be afraid to gate "major" parts of the game behind RNG like the vehicles. It's major parts of the game that make each playthrough different - not minor ones. And in the end, you still have a hundred of different ways to make sure the players will have access to these parts.

Vehicles can now be crafted by anyone, have no quality levels but only INT players with perks can craft vehicle parts. So non int guys can go scavenge parts and assemble a vehicle.