PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[Seraphimus]

I think its possible. I ocassionally get double headshots with duckbill mod

It is doable for sure hard to line up though and when you're fighting tougher zombies spreading your damage out like that across multiple targets doesn't pay off a lot of the time. and a lot of people say "Use slugs for those hard targets" which is valid, Slugs are great for those tougher zombies, but they are too costly to use as a primary ammo type and the switching interface is kinda clunky and hard to swap on the fly in a panic situation. also I kinda feel that if I wanted a hrd hitting single target weapon I'd use a marksmans rifle anyways

I agree that it is very weak, but early game I always used it as oh♥♥♥♥zombieinmyfacegoawaynow solution. Its quite fun when you unload both barrels and see him fly
However most players are not good at identifiing the key underlying issues so they will tell you: T2 bow should be craftable without parts.

The double barrel is good for that, I'm not even tryin to say it's bad or weak. It's problem is that it's bad and weak for a Tier 2 weapon. Compared to basically any other t2 it just doesn't hold up. But it would be real solid for a tier 1 weapon. Just like the pump feels bad and weak for a t3 weapon but is a really solid t2. The problem with shotguns is I always wind up feeling like I am playing Catch up with everyone else. Always a weapon tier behind. Especially on horde night When a weapon with splash like the shotty should shine.

And TBH the T2 bow either *SHOULD* be craftable without parts or be a more common drop. there are currently technically 5 bows (3 bows 2 crossbows assuming I haven't just not found a primitive crossbow equivalent) and two other full sets of agility weapons (3 knives and 3? Handguns. does the magnum count as a handgun?) and that makes it really hard to find/buy/loot a decent bow at any game stage because it's competing with so many other weapons. Especially if you sit in "Likes bows but not crossbows" or "likes crossbows but not bows"

Yes. Look at shotgun ammo types.

As someone who has found this info and used shotguns almost exclusively for a while now, I can still say it would be nice if there was a way to display this info in the weapon tool-tip. Especially for newer players who may not realize the ammo has separate but still relevant info about their damage. I mean I've been playing since late A15 and only just found the place in my stats section that shows my perk modified damage with a weapon. I always thought I had to figure that out myself.

No it isn't fine. It serves absolutely no purpose when you know how to melee or unless you refuse to melee. Either there's 1 or 2 targets on you and it's an easy melee kill, or there are more targets and it's a terrible weapon choice because of its mag size and effective range. Even for the odd dog or wolf encounter it's subpar because it is totally unforgiving if you ever miss your bullets. It's just worse than an AK in every way unless we look at raw damage per bullet.

Birds for me. It's always the birds I miss with it, or if there are more than one I'll hit one miss the other and get "bleeding/infection" and even with raw damage per bullet it fails beyond ~3-5 blocks range if you don't use a choke because most of those pellets will miss/hit another zombie. Which is okay early but the moment you run into ferals and irradiated zombies it means none of them take enough damage to matter.

 

[Onarr]

I might sound dismissive, but then my subconscious doesn't let go of what was said and it sits there and I might experience it myself or hear of it again, and eventually I come around to agreeing to some point or land on an improvement tweak where we land on some middle ground.

That is encouraging to hear.

 

[HungryZombie]

It is doable for sure hard to line up though and when you're fighting tougher zombies spreading your damage out like that across multiple targets doesn't pay off a lot of the time. and a lot of people say "Use slugs for those hard targets" which is valid, Slugs are great for those tougher zombies, but they are too costly to use as a primary ammo type and the switching interface is kinda clunky and hard to swap on the fly in a panic situation. also I kinda feel that if I wanted a hrd hitting single target weapon I'd use a marksmans rifle anyways

I really agree with this. Shotguns could use some kind of quality of life improvement for swapping ammo and the slugs are really expensive to use in general situations.

 

[Onarr]

It is doable for sure hard to line up though and when you're fighting tougher zombies spreading your damage out like that across multiple targets doesn't pay off a lot of the time. and a lot of people say "Use slugs for those hard targets" which is valid, Slugs are great for those tougher zombies, but they are too costly to use as a primary ammo type and the switching interface is kinda clunky and hard to swap on the fly in a panic situation. also I kinda feel that if I wanted a hrd hitting single target weapon I'd use a marksmans rifle anyways


The double barrel is good for that, I'm not even tryin to say it's bad or weak. It's problem is that it's bad and weak for a Tier 2 weapon. Compared to basically any other t2 it just doesn't hold up. But it would be real solid for a tier 1 weapon. Just like the pump feels bad and weak for a t3 weapon but is a really solid t2. The problem with shotguns is I always wind up feeling like I am playing Catch up with everyone else. Always a weapon tier behind. Especially on horde night When a weapon with splash like the shotty should shine.

And TBH the T2 bow either *SHOULD* be craftable without parts or be a more common drop. there are currently technically 5 bows (3 bows 2 crossbows assuming I haven't just not found a primitive crossbow equivalent) and two other full sets of agility weapons (3 knives and 3? Handguns. does the magnum count as a handgun?) and that makes it really hard to find/buy/loot a decent bow at any game stage because it's competing with so many other weapons. Especially if you sit in "Likes bows but not crossbows" or "likes crossbows but not bows"

As someone who has found this info and used shotguns almost exclusively for a while now, I can still say it would be nice if there was a way to display this info in the weapon tool-tip. Especially for newer players who may not realize the ammo has separate but still relevant info about their damage. I mean I've been playing since late A15 and only just found the place in my stats section that shows my perk modified damage with a weapon. I always thought I had to figure that out myself.

Birds for me. It's always the birds I miss with it, or if there are more than one I'll hit one miss the other and get "bleeding/infection" and even with raw damage per bullet it fails beyond ~3-5 blocks range if you don't use a choke because most of those pellets will miss/hit another zombie. Which is okay early but the moment you run into ferals and irradiated zombies it means none of them take enough damage to matter.

I agree with everything. Shotguns need some rebalancing. Perhaps a specific niche would be nice for them. Rifles have range and penetration, automatic weapons have firepower, pistols and smg are good all arounder, junk turrets are automatic. Perhaps bigger AoE crowd control might be it. Increase spread, number of pelets, decrease dmg per pelet but keep the stopping power.

What I quite like about shotguns is breaching ammo that does big block damage. It is pretty cool concept but currently PoIs are designed to discourage destroying blocks. Perhaps if there were some locked storage rooms that contain bonus loot.

 

[beHypE]

Birds for me. It's always the birds I miss with it, or if there are more than one I'll hit one miss the other and get "bleeding/infection" and even with raw damage per bullet it fails beyond ~3-5 blocks range if you don't use a choke because most of those pellets will miss/hit another zombie. Which is okay early but the moment you run into ferals and irradiated zombies it means none of them take enough damage to matter.

Yes I've tweaked my horde base design to fit my shotgun gameplay and even at only 3 blocks above of zombies, crouching and ADS, the spread was insane, or the damage too low, or both. It didn't always one shot a classic zombie even when I was sure to aim properly, and with 2 bullets per mag that's a huge bummer. It just didn't compete at all with the AK I had at the time, even though I had 5 STR and 3 in shotguns, and absolutely nothing in fortitude. Might just have to be level with zombies and shoot them in the face through some iron bars, but it's gonna be tricky when they go through I'll have to try.

I'm thinking more and more about debugmenu'ing some elixir and rerolling an hybrid STR/FORT instead of trying a "pure" STR.

 

[Seraphimus]

I really agree with this. Shotguns could use some kind of quality of life improvement for swapping ammo and the slugs are really expensive to use in general situations.

yeah, honestly even if they made the cost of slugs more in line with AP 7.62's and made them significantly less powerful (because they are insanely powerful, they are expensive for a reason you get what you pay for). I'd be happy with that. as is Switching needs to be easier or faster or we need to drop the blunderbuss, move the Double barrel to T1 the pump to T2 and put in a proper semi-auto combat shotgun for t3.

Also don't think i've seen slugs in the trader this playthrough.

 

[Gamida]

would you consider adding a "landing spot highlight" for when you throw molotovs and granades as to make sure were they will land before latting the mouse button go?? or a "path line" to make sure there is no collision in the way when you throw them between blocks?
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wow congrats, thats more than some so called "AAA" games, keep up the good work!

Misinterpreted your "landing spot highlight" before I finished your post. Got me thinking though wouldn't it be nice if you could throw out a marker and a supply plane would fly over and drop one of those slow descending flares that would light up a fair sized area on horde nights.

 

[Seraphimus]

Yes I've tweaked my horde base design to fit my shotgun gameplay and even at only 3 blocks above of zombies, crouching and ADS, the spread was insane, or the damage too low, or both. It didn't always one shot a classic zombie even when I was sure to aim properly, and with 2 bullets per mag that's a huge bummer. It just didn't compete at all with the AK I had at the time, even though I had 5 STR and 3 in shotguns, and absolutely nothing in fortitude. Might just have to be level with zombies and shoot them in the face through some iron bars, but it's gonna be tricky when they go through I'll have to try.
I'm thinking more and more about debugmenu'ing some elixir and rerolling an hybrid STR/FORT instead of trying a "pure" STR.

gonna be honest the LMG that's the new t3 automatics weapon is tons of fun. And just do a Steel block over bars over a ramp for your wall Even the crawlers will move to eye level for you but they gotta break that steel block or ramp all the way before they come through...

also @madmole, upgrade iron bars to steel bars when?

 

[madmole]

People are only mentioning it now because the masterpiece is indeed in the first 24 hours of play. But once you settle in and have your base is where the fun USED to begin for a lot of us. And that is when you start missing all the things you used to be able to time sink in. Painting, resurfacing, expanding etc. They have done a great job adding new decos and making this game fun again. No one here is criticizing the effort that went into steering the shipwreck that was 17. But even those new decos are mostly not available for crafting and were put in JUST for poi building, not player usage or with the idea that they will all be available to make your base your living quarters. MM himself called paint and dye junk that no one would care to lose if they scrapped it.
Its an ok opinion to have, but it should not be the only opinion. All of these new dumbed down negative reviews is exactly what I expected. You cater more to the casual gamer/broader audience you are now inviting a lot of sales to people who write stupid ♥♥♥♥ like "Hurr Durr this dev sucks he banned me cause i used racist slurs" or some other fortnite level infancy.

Which is why I was amused at his anger to people leaving negative reviews. The bubble that exists around this idea that bringing in tons more cash and gamers = positive word of mouth is laughable. All it does is invite toxicity. Mature gamers love 7 days. For 17 alphas we relished it. But mature gamers are no longer good enough. So you reap what you sow. Right or wrong (and trust me its wrong in most cases to see the trash these kids post) its a fact.

I'm not angry about negative reviews. I'm angry that steams system lets the same 10 disgruntled guys "thumbs up" a bad review so it gets anchored at the top of our store page. All I suggested was people if they wanted could thumbs up some good reviews to balance it.

We have to be careful what we allow players to craft because some models are expensive and will bring FPS to a crawl, so sorry we're not handing a loaded gun to a baby. Its all on hold because my mind was focused on making the game great again, but we will come back around to building. Building is better than ever overall IMO with new shape menus. I'm always fighting for you guys and your small things you like btw, but some things just have to go, like design inconsistencies and whatnot.

I'm playing long games and adding little things as I go.

You have a really bad habit of taking one thing out of context and labeling me with it forever. Obviously I love paint, and I pushed for the paint system. If you watch my video I painted my entire base a nice stucco az theme. But do we want to clutter precious inventory space with paint cans? We took it out of loot for that reason, and it found its way back through scrapping.

Scrapping is meant to condense space not clutter inventory with cosmetic stuff. Survival is first and foremost and adding barbie doll playing house recipes and cosmetics is something I personally like but can make the game cluttered, menus lag, and be overwhelming to noobs, so we have to handle things that aren't needed for survival very carefully and on a lower priority.

So while it might be fun for some guys to get into landscaping simulator, we can't justify having a very ugly terrain shader to maintain that feature that was never planned, gazz just went wild and added recipes for everything without team moderation when we first hired him. It sounded harmless at the time, but everything has a cost so we're reviewing stuff and finding out the use case, and trying to figure it all out.

 

[HungryZombie]

yeah, honestly even if they made the cost of slugs more in line with AP 7.62's and made them significantly less powerful (because they are insanely powerful, they are expensive for a reason you get what you pay for). I'd be happy with that. as is Switching needs to be easier or faster or we need to drop the blunderbuss, move the Double barrel to T1 the pump to T2 and put in a proper semi-auto combat shotgun for t3.
Also don't think i've seen slugs in the trader this playthrough.

Might need to try rocking two loaded shotguns each with different ammo. Tool belt slots are precious though but it might pay off.

 

[Seraphimus]

Might need to try rocking two loaded shotguns each with different ammo. Tool belt slots are precious though but it might pay off.

yeah been considering it. be Hard to find another t6 shotty with the near legendary rolls I got though.

 

[madmole]

Mr. Mole.Just admit, you just want the Gold-Plated Weights for your Platinum-plated Benchpress!!!!1111.

Jokes aside, contributed 50 thumb ups or more

With A18 the game deserves all the love it possibly can get.

Hah, if you saw my home gym you would know I could care less about gold plated weights, I have a dream setup, its better than the gym I used to train at. I am thinking of assimilating the family room and then I'd have a full 3000+ square foot mega gym lol. Last year I assimilated half of the utility room and finished it off to match the existing weight room. I still need a cable pulley machine.

Thanks!

 

[madmole]

would you consider adding a "landing spot highlight" for when you throw molotovs and granades as to make sure were they will land before latting the mouse button go?? or a "path line" to make sure there is no collision in the way when you throw them between blocks?
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wow congrats, thats more than some so called "AAA" games, keep up the good work!

I don't think its needed. A little practice makes perfect.

Over 36k now!

 

[hunluki]

I'm always fighting for you guys and your small things you like btw, but some things just have to go, like design inconsistencies and whatnot.

Thanks! Just a question: Any plans to make more endgame content? In A17/18 the focus was on making early game funny and the job was done perfectly with some little fails here and there but these will be ironed out. Please give us some bigger things to do, rebuild pois, create our bases more complex and powerful, some legendary or high-end stuff that can be crafted with high level. Some unique recipies that you have to find and there is only one on them per map, maybe on the top of a really hard POI.

Would be nice to have some weapons that are "legendary", you have to collect 15-20 maybe more recipies for it's parts (in the hardest places) and these should be really hard to craft, op and costly to repair.

 

[Seraphimus]

I'm not angry about negative reviews. I'm angry that steams system lets the same 10 disgruntled guys "thumbs up" a bad review so it gets anchored at the top of our store page. All I suggested was people if they wanted could thumbs up some good reviews to balance it.
We have to be careful what we allow players to craft because some models are expensive and will bring FPS to a crawl, so sorry we're not handing a loaded gun to a baby. Its all on hold because my mind was focused on making the game great again, but we will come back around to building. Building is better than ever overall IMO with new shape menus. I'm always fighting for you guys and your small things you like btw, but some things just have to go, like design inconsistencies and whatnot.

I'm playing long games and adding little things as I go.

You have a really bad habit of taking one thing out of context and labeling me with it forever. Obviously I love paint, and I pushed for the paint system. If you watch my video I painted my entire base a nice stucco az theme. But do we want to clutter precious inventory space with paint cans? We took it out of loot for that reason, and it found its way back through scrapping.

Scrapping is meant to condense space not clutter inventory with cosmetic stuff. Survival is first and foremost and adding barbie doll playing house recipes and cosmetics is something I personally like but can make the game cluttered, menus lag, and be overwhelming to noobs, so we have to handle things that aren't needed for survival very carefully and on a lower priority.

So while it might be fun for some guys to get into landscaping simulator, we can't justify having a very ugly terrain shader to maintain that feature that was never planned, gazz just went wild and added recipes for everything without team moderation when we first hired him. It sounded harmless at the time, but everything has a cost so we're reviewing stuff and finding out the use case, and trying to figure it all out.

Firstly, I'm okay with paint being gone *if* we can still paint things. I mean as is since A15 the brush doesn't actually seem to consume paint on use anwyays, and I see no harm in letting that just be the norm.

Second, To answer your question from way back, I'd personally probably prefer asphalt over gravel.

And third, I get it, It's hard to balance making a good game and having all the things everyone wants. FWIW The shape menus got me into base-building for the first time ever. Always been the looter/quester/miner but it's so much more intuitive now that it's actually fun. ( I just wish there was a way to hide wires but I can live without that one)

 

[madmole]

just dont over dumb them, one of the several things that made ATLAS a failure was that they made animals behave as if they had alzheimer after people complained, i can understand his frustration but this is a survival afterall

Its fine I think, the game needs to be dangerous.

 

[madmole]

Surely you understand that TFP's goal this Alpha was to polish those 24hrs of play. Without that further development is more difficult. From everything I've seen them post I think they will be adding more stuff to make the next 24 hours or whatever time you'd like of play better in future patches and updates.
This is a game in development, not a finished product. They got a great start to hook players in. Now they will season the game for longer playthoughs.

IMO the game starts getting interesting 24 hours in.

 

[madmole]

The damage shown on a shotgun is really Damagex8? one for each pellet? I never knew that.

Hah yeah hopefully we can overcome it so it displays something more intuitive. 8 would be horrible.

 

[madmole]

gonna be honest the LMG that's the new t3 automatics weapon is tons of fun. And just do a Steel block over bars over a ramp for your wall Even the crawlers will move to eye level for you but they gotta break that steel block or ramp all the way before they come through...

also @madmole, upgrade iron bars to steel bars when?

Well it can't be as strong as steel though, that would be OP. Maybe 3500 health?

 

[Seraphimus]

Hah yeah hopefully we can overcome it so it displays something more intuitive. 8 would be horrible.

Would be neat if the weapon damage updated dynamically with ammo changes/perks/magazines but I get that'd probably be if not hard at least not a huge priority.

Also, You're horrible. Lol