PC After 4000 hours with a11-a16, I won't spend much time in a17x. Here's why... no fun!

I'm just glad that if my house was ever destroyed by a mud slide I could call upon both of you. You to analyze why I lost everything and him to analyze how I might get some of it back.
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Well.. I'm not a building safety specialist, so I'll probably tell you that you bought real estate in the wrong neighbourhood.

I could tell you exactly what kind of mud destroyed your house though!

 
To the OP, I agree wholeheartedly with most of what you've said. I only have just under 1k hours in the game, but I've been an avid supporter of 7DtD in social media, forums, and have convinced many people to buy the game. I used to describe it as 'the greatest game ever made', but with A17 experimental, sadly I can't do that anymore. I really hope the pimps listen to your feedback because I'm certain it sums up what a lot of people think but won't bother to register in the forum to say.

There are a few really cool improvements in A17, but there are some major fundamental flaws, most of which you've mentioned in the OP, but also:

- FOV slider needs to come back. It's imperative for those that suffer from motion sickness to be able to adjust to a wider FOV. I'm aware of the F1 command to force a field of view while loading (tried it in single player), but that's not user friendly, or widely known.

- Zombies need to drop loot again. Killing without looting makes me feel like I'm playing any other zombie shooter.

- A couple of Alphas ago, they had food and drink levels in the UI which for some silly reason got removed and now everyone uses Red's Hud mod to get it back. I'm not sure if Red's hud works in A17x but if not fml having to go into my character panel all the time to check my levels.

Overall :(

 
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To the OP, I agree wholeheartedly with most of what you've said. I only have just under 1k hours in the game, but I've been an avid supporter of 7DtD in social media, forums, and have convinced many people to buy the game. I used to describe it as 'the greatest game ever made', but with A17 experimental, sadly I can't do that anymore. I really hope the pimps listen to your feedback because I'm certain it sums up what a lot of people think but won't bother to register in the forum to say.
There are a few really cool improvements in A17, but there are some major fundamental flaws, most of which you've mentioned in the OP, but also:

- FOV slider needs to come back. It's imperative for those that suffer from motion sickness to be able to adjust to a wider FOV. I'm aware of the F1 command to force a field of view while loading (tried it in single player), but that's not user friendly, or widely known.

- Zombies need to drop loot again. Killing without looting makes me feel like I'm playing any other zombie shooter.

- A couple of Alphas ago, they had food and drink levels in the UI which for some silly reason got removed and now everyone uses Red's Hud mod to get it back. I'm not sure if Red's hud works in A17x but if not fml having to go into my character panel all the time to check my levels.

Overall :(
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I'm sure graphics will get some work done. This is experimental so personally not surprised.

Zombie loot is just based on opinion and everyone will have one. Personally wasn't a fan and not missing it at all. To many other things at the moment giving loot but again that is my preference and understand why one wants it back. Besides preference wasn't taking loot and gore blocks out from zombies going to help things run smoother? I can't remember so back to the first thing with quality if that is true then I will still pick no loot. But I might be thinking on something else not sure.

Again a personal preference. You don't level a specific thing anymore when you level up, the xp bar fills up on the screen then makes a sound. So then I can go to the skills and unlock what I wanting. Personally feel no need for it to tell me more then it does to tell me what level I am. Not a fan of clutter on my screen. I'm still getting used to the hp/stainima bar and think some stuff needs some final touches on but I'm ok with it. But as I said a personal preference.

Over all I personally really enjoy the way A17 is. Do I think it is perfect no and it does need some balancing and tweaking and a few improvements. But by no means do I feel it needs to go back to the way A16 is. I feel it is experimental and things need work and they will work on what needs it. Also just like always we have no clue in the bigger picture on why when something doesn't make sense. Maybe some of this stuff will be tied to bandits or something else that we just don't see yet. No matter what no matter how I feel or anyone else I highly doubt they spent all this time on something to go back to the past. What they have can work it just needs more work done to it to make it feel more right. But this is just my opinion and that is all it is no right no wrong.

 
Actually Roland, to tie in with my latest post to you, I found one thing that's worse than players here speaking for other players as the majority - it's players pretending they are speaking for the devs. Btw, God sends his greetings. He thinks those people are idiots.

 
I would have thought for experimental the devs would welcome active feed back good and bad.

I have problems like the OP with the game. The OP has done this in a constructive view.

I believe a lot of threads are hi-jacked and turned into a personal attack on posters raising any valid concerns or issues they bring up.

Roland said we are the one's raging on steam facebook etc maybe some do "I don't" But judging by the response you get on here and the insults you get for raising any valid points I can understand. Calling the kettle black springs to mind

 
Well.. I'm not a building safety specialist, so I'll probably tell you that you bought real estate in the wrong neighbourhood.

I could tell you exactly what kind of mud destroyed your house though!
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Which would be important, because we cover mudslides but not landslides.

 
I would have thought for experimental the devs would welcome active feed back good and bad.I have problems like the OP with the game. The OP has done this in a constructive view.

I believe a lot of threads are hi-jacked and turned into a personal attack on posters raising any valid concerns or issues they bring up.

Roland said we are the one's raging on steam facebook etc maybe some do "I don't" But judging by the response you get on here and the insults you get for raising any valid points I can understand. Calling the kettle black springs to mind
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Constructive. That word doesn’t mean what you think it means.

 
Not out of nowhere. I was answering directly your post here:


Your first line says that you should be able to post impolite criticism if you want to.

Your middle single formula sentence seems to say that the tone and words you use shouldn't matter.

Your last paragraph basically is saying don't be politically correct and don't get triggered which begs the question of what it is you want to post that would lead to people getting triggered (hint: usually insults and flame bait).

Now what is funny is that I was just being blunt with you about what I'm not going to allow to happen in these forums and you broke your own advice about getting triggered. I really have no idea about what you have or have not posted but your post was a good one to respond to so that people would know what I'm not going to allow since you seemed to be saying "We should be able to post criticism any way we like and you should just take the point of criticism and ignore the rest no matter how rude it might be"

I'm not trying to protect A17. A17 doesn't need protecting. I am protecting the forums from becoming a place that (again) it seemed you were suggesting we should become.
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I guess when your only tool is a ban hammer everything is going to look like a nail. I mention tone and you assume it to be hostile.

What I was actually referencing was how you and others have been focusing too much on the way in which some complaints have been expressed. Dismissing legitimate criticism because you dislike the posters doom and gloom attitude or because they made generalized statments based on their perception of how this update was recievied.

I mentioned the overly polite customer service rep because typically those are the type of people who have to listen to customers complain. Good CS reps will listen to the upset customers complaints without getting pulled into arguments about little things the customer might utter, like how bad the company is, or how bad the situation is. The last thing an upset customer wants to hear is statistics explaining how the situation is just great.

Could you imagine going into Walmart and saying to the CS rep "This product is not what I expected, its not what was advertised, I am not happy that your company is pushing an inferior product on customers who are expecting the product you were selling last week." and the employees response is something like "People love our new product. Here are our latest sales numbers. Your opinion is just a one off, so it will be ignored."

Look, I get it. Your job isnt strictly customer service, and you have your own opinions. But from our perspective you are the face of the fun pimps here, so when you start throwing statistics at complaint threads, and saying some posts arent being constructive enough, it feels like our complaints are being dismissed by the company. It also feels like you are lumping us all together into one cohesive group, as if the OP has the power to make every post in the thread constructive and overly polite. There is no 'us', we are all just customers who bought a game.

 
I guess when your only tool is a ban hammer everything is going to look like a nail. I mention tone and you assume it to be hostile.
What I was actually referencing was how you and others have been focusing too much on the way in which some complaints have been expressed. Dismissing legitimate criticism because you dislike the posters doom and gloom attitude or because they made generalized statments based on their perception of how this update was recievied.

I mentioned the overly polite customer service rep because typically those are the type of people who have to listen to customers complain. Good CS reps will listen to the upset customers complaints without getting pulled into arguments about little things the customer might utter, like how bad the company is, or how bad the situation is. The last thing an upset customer wants to hear is statistics explaining how the situation is just great.

Could you imagine going into Walmart and saying to the CS rep "This product is not what I expected, its not what was advertised, I am not happy that your company is pushing an inferior product on customers who are expecting the product you were selling last week." and the employees response is something like "People love our new product. Here are our latest sales numbers. Your opinion is just a one off, so it will be ignored."

Look, I get it. Your job isnt strictly customer service, and you have your own opinions. But from our perspective you are the face of the fun pimps here, so when you start throwing statistics at complaint threads, and saying some posts arent being constructive enough, it feels like our complaints are being dismissed by the company. It also feels like you are lumping us all together into one cohesive group, as if the OP has the power to make every post in the thread constructive and overly polite. There is no 'us', we are all just customers who bought a game.
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Well put. I think they are coming around to that realization on their own though. I know Hawkeye has, and Roland recanted on drawing A17e = good arguments from the aggregate steam statistics.

 
Your one line, essentially that you disagree, in response to the OP's 1800+ word essay and 13 pages of points/counterpoints is not very satisfying. Do you think it gives you equal consideration?
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I would think his opinion is absolutely equal to the OP. Why would it not be? Because he didn't write a wall of post to convey his feelings? Seems pretty short sighted to me.

For the record, I am enjoying the changes also.

 
What I was actually referencing was how you and others have been focusing too much on the way in which some complaints have been expressed. Dismissing legitimate criticism because you dislike the posters doom and gloom attitude or because they made generalized statments based on their perception of how this update was recievied.
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As I said, my primary role as I see it is to keep the people who cannot deliver a message civilly from taking over the forums. It is so easy to let things sink to the lowest basest style which is to insult and predict the end and be vile and hateful. So no, I do as a moderator focus on those parts and I hold the line on level of decency when posting. If someone simply cannot be civil as they post their criticism then they be banned from this location and go post on Joel's youtube comments where you see exactly what I'm fighting against.

 
I think the leveling slog and the skill gating is the worst part of the game right now. they fixed zombie AI which is now nearly perfect.

 
I think the leveling slog and the skill gating is the worst part of the game right now. they fixed zombie AI which is now nearly perfect.
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Leveling is fun. Just god mode and creative mode everything if u instantly want to be jesus.

 
Leveling is fun. Just god mode and creative mode everything if u instantly want to be jesus.
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The leveling introduced in A16 was slog for me. It is double slog, by their stated design and goals, in A17. I'd really rather play the game in a mode where other people can play too. Multiplayer is where it's at.

 
Leveling is fun. Just god mode and creative mode everything if u instantly want to be jesus.
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It's a poor argument the conflates the desire of some people who prefer faster leveling with them wanting to be instantly all-powerful.

That said, the XP progression is VERY easily modded, so I don't see too much reason for TFP to spend a great deal of time tweaking the values (some perhaps, but not a lot), which is why I've never had an issue with the games default settings.

Now, XP relative to one activity versus another, is something worth some balance consideration in the default game, because it does seem to favour Zombie kills quite extensively.

 
- Skill gating and item quality: The game has become totally cookie cutter - every player is now the same, every item the same, there is no luck any more, there is no hard working any more - except grind to get those skill points. You wanna make the game more realistic so it takes much longer to climb up a frigging ladder? That's just annoying and to no use for the player! You're overthinking everything! Just relax and make it more fun and give freedom rather than thinking that a lot of rules and regulations will add fun because it's an added challenge. No! You don't understand! That's not how fun works! Minecraft is fun. It's a total crap game from a logical standpoint and it looks like sh* - but freedom is fun! If you want to build your forge the first thing you wanna do out of the gate - let the player have it! What's the problem? Why control everything everybody is doing? It's paranoid!

what he really waants is to be done with the game like in a16 in a17 forge day one or else I BABY RAGE WRAAAAAAAAAAAGH THE GRASS LOOKS BLEND WRAAGH! why u even loooking hard at grass for? you surviving dumbass its so yikes.

 
Hey there and first of all.. sorry for my bad english :-)

As i read most of the posts here i started to think, that you all want the same but on different "typing styles".

Roland wrote the right thing when he said, that all critism could be in a "good way".

But at least for me as player i could underline what many gamers wrote here.

Farming zombies is really boring after some time. Currently (but thats my own opinion) the game dont offers much for different gamer types.

See the following:

1.) You got the players who love to go underground, finding caves and mine the hell out of the tools they craft

Currently: they have to farm zombies to get the perks and then they feel, that mining is useless because they find stone, and stone, and stone and ok, sometimes a bit ore. In former alphas you learn to get better by mining holes in the world, you got a motivation and they like to wear a mining helmet, maybe they got "motivating music" in background and build big towers/bases underground to prevent against zombies/players. Now: this is nearly destroyed.

-> I dont see a problem to give players back what they want: a progress in farming categories like mining.

-> Furthermore: lets take a step to the realistic world: did you get muscles by "take a perk"? -> no; you have to train them for long time!

2.) Food is (again my opinion) currently nearly useless. In A16 you need it and got motivated to farm/find the right food components to get more life. -> this make sense! Now: Useless

-> Again, I dont see a problem to change this

3.) As many players told before, every player is the same.

A little story out of my team in A16: 4-5 players at start. We got the one who loves to kill as many as he can - he loves to progress scavaning; we got the builder who build ♥♥♥♥ing big bases and he loves to take food components (really hard roleplay), we got me, who loves to mine the biggest caves/holes in the rock and we got a last player who keep his eye on crafting armor and other stuff.

-> PERFECT; we react as team, progress as team, bring the tasks together and were motivated to support the team.

Currently its nothing of this: As we started we dont build a real base, we got a bit food and then we start to farm zombies as hell.

4.) Ok, most players will punish me for that opinion but i loved it to craft a big amount of tools to just get points in crafting "tools".

A step back to the real world: is a blacksmith the best or as compare to here "level xx" after he learned to be blacksmith? NO! He have to train his skills and then after years of work he is "maybe" a good blacksmith.

5.) Zombies: the current amount and what we find in buildings, like "zombie traps" is perfect. Its wonderful to survive, to get feared of that traps. Maybe you can reduce to dmg the zombies do to blocks -> i feel its a bit to much.

There are more points in my opinion - but i want to say the following:

Discuss the things on a good way. Crying is the last all want. I dont know if the Pimps read this or hear about community. At least, we - the players - can write our thoughts. If the game goes a way we (the part of players who dont like this way) dont like, we could play a other alpha or we play a different game. As former worker in game industrie and esports i could believe you all: working together is the best you/we all can do. But im not the one who teach pimps and players in der behavior :-)

Ruskor

 
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