You guys having strong opinions makes arguing against them feel risky. That's one reason you guys are surprised at the responses. I can only speak for myself, but I didn't join in the conversations about trashing underground safety because the moderators were clearly in support of it, and with some posters being VERY aggro about it, it seemed a risky thing to argue about. It's only now, seeing the game at a point where I am ready to walk away, that getting banned for having an opinion seems less risky. I won't be playing if these changes move forward anyway, so getting banned is less of a concern.
PC After 4000 hours with a11-a16, I won't spend much time in a17x. Here's why... no fun!
- Thread starter Bubbahotetp
- Start date
You guys having strong opinions makes arguing against them feel risky. That's one reason you guys are surprised at the responses. I can only speak for myself, but I didn't join in the conversations about trashing underground safety because the moderators were clearly in support of it, and with some posters being VERY aggro about it, it seemed a risky thing to argue about. It's only now, seeing the game at a point where I am ready to walk away, that getting banned for having an opinion seems less risky. I won't be playing if these changes move forward anyway, so getting banned is less of a concern.
Guppycur
Well-known member
Literally NO ONE gets banned for having a contrary opinion. That's a fallacy.
People get banned for violating the very clear forum rules, and even then, after several times doing so.
... I've never been banned, and I am far from a tfp poster boy.
It's really about whether or not your post offers value to the community.
"Tfp owes me, they suck, the game is gonna die and the devs are idiots" offers no value.
"Tfp changed the game I bought, I think that a, b & c sucks, sales are down and the devs have lost touch with what players want because of xyz"
...says the same thing, but offers constructive criticism and is more than just an insult.
People get banned for violating the very clear forum rules, and even then, after several times doing so.
... I've never been banned, and I am far from a tfp poster boy.
It's really about whether or not your post offers value to the community.
"Tfp owes me, they suck, the game is gonna die and the devs are idiots" offers no value.
"Tfp changed the game I bought, I think that a, b & c sucks, sales are down and the devs have lost touch with what players want because of xyz"
...says the same thing, but offers constructive criticism and is more than just an insult.
Ttocs
New member
Game is still fun to me, needs a lil tweaking and performance has seemed to have dropped a tad instead of improving but hey that's what experimental is all about, right?
I will miss the learn by doing and improving by doing. Will miss gun parts. Kinda miss fast progression but have found myself in the past looking back to the earlier days and miss the threat they carried so on the fence on this that.
I just cant wait to test some of my old base designs vs the new 17 zombs, im sure 3 layers think of concrete will keep them at bay plus some new stuffs to test (gonna have dart traps facing down and the wall under them be made out of a lower tier material so they path there to die muhahaha) among other things.
Melee seems easier now imo, i pretty much only use power attacks to the nugget after 2 they go down give em one while they down most stay down and the bigger ones only usually take another club to the noggin to end them once theyre back up.
Their detection is a lil off tho imo, i can crouch move past zombs only a few person lengths away from me with no prob. But if im on top floor of a building just cooking/crafting/eating (cleared building btw) bla they seem to detect and path to me very easily.
Overall tho its a good show so far.
Oh and log spikes, put them back in xD
edit: ps i have about 500hr on ps4 vers and 400hr on pc, so far cry from 4k, maybe OP just needs a break. Try again when stable perhaps, too many people on the forum forgetting its experimental
I will miss the learn by doing and improving by doing. Will miss gun parts. Kinda miss fast progression but have found myself in the past looking back to the earlier days and miss the threat they carried so on the fence on this that.
I just cant wait to test some of my old base designs vs the new 17 zombs, im sure 3 layers think of concrete will keep them at bay plus some new stuffs to test (gonna have dart traps facing down and the wall under them be made out of a lower tier material so they path there to die muhahaha) among other things.
Melee seems easier now imo, i pretty much only use power attacks to the nugget after 2 they go down give em one while they down most stay down and the bigger ones only usually take another club to the noggin to end them once theyre back up.
Their detection is a lil off tho imo, i can crouch move past zombs only a few person lengths away from me with no prob. But if im on top floor of a building just cooking/crafting/eating (cleared building btw) bla they seem to detect and path to me very easily.
Overall tho its a good show so far.
Oh and log spikes, put them back in xD
edit: ps i have about 500hr on ps4 vers and 400hr on pc, so far cry from 4k, maybe OP just needs a break. Try again when stable perhaps, too many people on the forum forgetting its experimental
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Bubbahotetp
New member
It's what ever business model you want to follow. The more neutral the company and its associates are towards their customers and the less favouritism they show to individuals the more professional they are from a common business standpoint. What we see here is just not very common, and it likely has an effect on their total outreach and income. If what they do suits you, fine, what ever. There is just a more professional way of handling customer contact - that's the gist of it. And I stand by my view and statement that the general frustration on here speaks volumes by itself on how little dialogue there actually is with the fan base. The need for dialogue is apparently greater than what is actually happening. And please don't as a next step put words in my mouth trying to claim that I want them to do nothing but talking. Okay and for saying that I'm going to get called passive aggressive. Hm. Can't win. Ah damn, passive aggressive again... what can you do...
Edit: there is a little apple and orange confusion in this discussion. I'm not talking about moderators joining any dialogue, I'm talking about dialogue with one or a few representative developers.
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Guppycur
Well-known member
We represent a small fraction of a fraction of their customer base, AND tfp already has our money...
...roland being roland doesn't affect the bottom line any more than an actual dev post does.
- - - Updated - - -
And who is shown favoritism? And how are you defining favoritism?
...roland being roland doesn't affect the bottom line any more than an actual dev post does.
- - - Updated - - -
And who is shown favoritism? And how are you defining favoritism?
Bubbahotetp
New member
Ok this is starting to piss me off. Why do people keep pretending I said a lot of stuff I didn't? You're like the 30th person the last 5 days who takes what I said, stirs it around in a pot full of tar and straw, takes out the result and acts all offended. Am I not speaking clearly enough? Or is there some other mysterious problem I'm unaware of?
Nowhere have I said that you don't have the right. You can do what ever you please. You can play what ever you please. I went back to edit my statement shortly after posting adding the note about "every" moderator. This is not the only internet forum. There are forums out there where the forum rules prevent moderators from entering discussions. I see a point in that, and many of those forums aren't even connected to any business.
When moderators become personally involved in disputes (just like what's happening right here right now) they can lose a measure of credibility by reacting inappropriately towards the customer. That is not very professional. If you worked at Walmart as a cashier and overheard someone having a negative opinion on walmart or their buisness model or their employees, I'm pretty sure you'll get into hot water for starting an argument with that customer. It's just that here - in the wild west of the internet - that that kind of behaviour is accepted. But it's not very professional. That's my point.
It wasn't personal and I'm not talking about you unless in this post right here, and you can do what ever you want. I bet you're a nice guy, this has nothing to do with anyone individually and I'm even sorry for leaving the name Roland in that initial post, I hoped my edit was making things clear.
I know that moderating is a pretty thankless job, with a lot of stress and thanks for doing it. I'm just sorry you don't get a little pay from it, but that's your business.
Rockspider
New member
Middle ground is hard to find on here
Bubbahotetp
New member
Since the moderators are players and have their opinions and state their opinions on the forum, they show natural favouritism towards people who agree with their point, thus skewing the customers stated opinions about the product and risking filtering it through their own opinions before forwarding it to the developers (if that is indeed one of their tasks). You can't be both involved and stay neutral, that just doesn't work.
Edit: Since the moderators also are players they will also always show loyalty to the developer first, since being close to them and being able to work for them, even without pay, is seen as a high status perk - or they just wouldn't do it. The price of that is neutrality.
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OzHawkeye
Community Moderator
Bubbahotetp (and thraka),
I can give you a 100% unconditional guarantee that I will not now, or ever, take any moderator action against someone disagreeing with me, the Devs, any other poster, any other moderator whatsoever, unless I genuinely and honestly believe such post violates the established forum guidelines.
If I were to do anything other than that, then I would be a terrible moderator and ought to be subject to removal from that position the moment I did that.
I can equally say though, that I absolutely will moderate those posts I do genuinely and sincerely believe violate the forum guidelines, and will do so regardless of whether the post in question is supportive OR critical of the Devs, me, the moderators or other community members.
I take very seriously the division of responsibility of I have, between posting my OWN opinions (some of which I hold just as strongly as other opinions held by other community members, but which I hope I communicate civilly) and those, thankfully rarer times, when I act as a moderator.
Disagree with me all you like, I'll defend your right to critique the game till the end of time, so long as it's done civilly.
This, by the way, is why I feel like I have every right to also post here as a player, precisely because I am so careful to differentiate between my "player" posting and my "moderator" actions.
I've reached lvl 52 and day 20 now. I love it! Thanks TFP. Yes, there are some bugs and I had to do some tweaking to get 30-60 FPS (I'm running 1920x1080, not bad). I like the bicycle so much I'll probably skip the minibike. Actually, I found A16 to be boring after you get to steel making.
Roland
Community Moderator
I actually haven’t stated my opinion directly in response to your points. I’ve stated repeatedly that I’m only against people representing their own view as representing the majority or that the changes were made for greed, maliciousness, spite towards one segment of the community, consoles, or anything other than that the devs like the way the game plays now better than any previous version.
So if you’re worried about what I have to say then you’re simply worried that you can’t use false assumptions to lend strength to your opinion about the game.
My opinion about the game itself is:
1) I would like level gating lessened or removed.
2) I think multiple active lcbs should be allowed.
3) I would like less zombie kill xp and more xp granted for everything else.
4) I like zombie loot just the way it is now. Maybe up the percentage a bit at night but not really necessary.
5) I think zombies should dig and am glad they do again. Next up: dogs should be able to swim and attack on the surface of water
6) current death penalty is perfect. Cutting it to 30 min isn’t necessary but I also wouldn’t object. I’m just glad there’s something punitive in place.
In general I find A17 to be the best version so far even with my own objections to choices they made. Please feel free to express your disagreement with me and we can talk it out. Forum rules don’t prohibit me from participating after all...
Oz, you're missing an important component here. You guys have not (that I have seen) taken direct action, but when it is clear that you guys side with very aggro people on contentious matters, it's difficult not to see bias. Several posters have responded to criticism of the game with criticism of the poster, with insults like "you're an entitled whiner", "You're just a crybaby, you can't handle change", "why don't you go play minecraft", etc. There are plenty to find.
Why are they not moderated? It feels like it's because the mods take sides.
Why are they not moderated? It feels like it's because the mods take sides.
I noticed i am getting this same effect as well, i have experienced that other games have made me feel seasick and nauseous, but 7days to die was never one of them, but after the new update i cant really play for that long without starting to get a headache and feel a bit unwell.
Not really sure what the cause is, i did change the fov back to what i used to have, as that was normally the biggest cause.