PC After 4000 hours with a11-a16, I won't spend much time in a17x. Here's why... no fun!

You know, Fennac's mod added a longer start, but still felt balanced. As a solo only player I feel like there is a very narrow early game progression now. I have to get more backpack space and I need more stamina. Honestly there is no way our "survivor" made it past the 1st week of the apocalypse with the this stamina. Hitting a zed nurse with a hunting rifle, in the head, is no longer a 1 shot? I hunt with a 6.5 creed, and I do believe there would be no head left.

 
The Review statistics have been overly discussed by now and I can only recommend going through those posts before bringing them up again.
Click to expand...
Oh right.. i forgot. One type of questionable statistics is obviously much better than another. Please. You don't like the game. Okay. I do. Okay.

Why do you think your opinion should outweigh mine?

 
What's your preference? Stain of coffee on shirt, or a smudge of chocolate around mouth?
Click to expand...
I'll take the 'don't pretend that you have a more important opinion than others'.

To go, please.

 
Oh right.. i forgot. One type of questionable statistics is obviously much better than another. Please. You don't like the game. Okay. I do. Okay.
Why do you think your opinion should outweigh mine?
Click to expand...
I am neither talking about the game here nor about the weight of opinions. Just about the pure fact that the statistics you brought up again have been brought up before. It goes hand in hand with what Roland later defined as "weak numbers" in terms of player count from steam while not even knowing wether or not those players like what they play, they play A17e or any of the stables or mods.

Here some ways to look at the reviews in a different way.

And if you actually take the time to read through those ratings, you will find that there are oh too many people with good reviews "waiting for a17 release" or with so few hours that they likely didn't find out to opt into latest experimental. I would be very careful.
Rated as good examples:
Click to expand...

Sorry for quoting my own post. However, if you actually try to focus on reviews mentioning A17 directly, I feel like you get a far more negative picture. Of course this might be biased by negative reviews indicating what broke the game for them more explicitly. But it's still something to dig into.
Click to expand...

Sort them by most helpful, and select the last four or five days. All of the reviews are negative. When sorting by recent, I could only find ~26 or ~27 of 400+ reviews from Nov 21-Nov 24 that indicated to me the positive reviewer was actually playing A17. Many of them expressly appreciated the RPGy nature of the new game. Not saying anything about that other than the fact it's chiefly what a lot of the negative reviewers are concerned about.
Click to expand...
While you are currently trying to get personal those things above actually purely list observations to your reference.

 
And if you actually offer suggestions of what you want, you get angry responses like "You can't tell the devs what to do! It's their game blabla!"
Can't win. I can talk, but I can't win. But I can talk.
Click to expand...
Stop being disingenuous. The issue with the OP was the tone and claiming to represent the player base. Most, but not all, of the posts are addressing these two weaknesses in the OP.

 
Most of this thread has been people whinging and attacking moderators. I have skimmed most of this thread but it's mostly noise. The OP is mostly crapping on A17 without offering constructive criticism.
Click to expand...
I found when people say a complained is not valid because it does not offer "constructive criticism", that it equals to "i do not care about your complaints".

The attacking mods part... When you have a active forum moderator who is acting like a fanboy and actively trolling people, then you got a issue. Roland is not a bad person but he is a massive fanboy of the game and a very active defender of the game. So when people get into conflicts with him, it looks like people are attacking a moderator. You can not have it both ways. Your a moderator or your a user with a strong opinion. Can not be both without creating a big massive bulleye.

And that's extent of his post. The devs are fully aware of 1,2, and 3. 5, 6, 7, 9, and 10 are unlikely to change in any meaningful way because they are core design decisions made by the devs. That is the game they want.
Click to expand...
As you said, it is the game they wanted. Some people disagree with those designs. Its their right as owners of the game to complain. If TFPs want to make those design changes, let them.

But the moment they forcefully removed the ability for mod authors to restore the old design, that is where you run into issues. Its like TFPs saying to the people here: "play it the way we wanted or f. off". So the whole "we supports mods seems to be limited to "mod features we want you to use".

Anyway, i feel like a lot of people here. Yes, A17 is a major update but ... some parts feel just wrong. Before the game was more build, survival, explorer. Yes, we had issues also. But now its becomes zombie farmville. People used to avoid zombie, now they run to zombies for that XP boost, because they need to unlock more levels. We replaced spam crafting with zombie spamming. I see people becoming bored before they even hit level 20. People that craft are frustrated at the massive damage zombies do to blocks, making building almost useless. And in my opinion worst of all, is that we wasted 16 months with no real new craftable content to the game beyond a few vehicles. Let alone a lot of the dumbing down the game even more, or simplifying as the devs like to call it every release.

It may be the game they wanted but its not the game i want. Nor my friends. But TFPs do not care because we already own the game. We are the old guard. We do not bring in any more money. And you can so tell this alpha is not made just as the developer envisioned it. Just go back to the kickstarter and see how much really is missing and how the game is explained. Its more about bringing in new players. The fallout crowd of players or the equivalent. Fresh blood...

instead of fixing the past issues, releasing the game and bringing new content as DLCs, TFPs got greedy. That is my personal view on the issue of the constant "simplifying" 7D2D.

 
Statistically speaking they won't. They never have. We can just vent frustration and when we are done go on and join the herd of sheeple again.
Click to expand...
That phase where you are now? I've been there.

You'll grow out of it eventually.

 
I know I've been a much bigger ass than roland has, yet people are attacking him, not me... The only real difference between us is, he's a moderator.

So my conclusion is that you people are bringing his moderator status into it, not him.

Food for thought.

 
I'll take the 'don't pretend that you have a more important opinion than others'.
To go, please.
Click to expand...
And yet it was you who said that Alpha 17 is the best one so far like if it was a general consensus. It's not, it's just your own opinion which you have the right for, but you should also respect the opinions of others. Don't be like "Oh look at the statistics, so many players play it at the same time!", as I said previously numbers aren't everything.

- - - Updated - - -

I know I've been a much bigger ass than roland has, yet people are attacking him, not me... The only real difference between us is, he's a moderator.
So my conclusion is that you people are bringing his moderator status into it, not him.

Food for thought.
Click to expand...
So much food for thought and yet so skinny!

 
The 22999 and me.

Yesterday I was one of that quoted number, and I most certainly am not happy with some of the changes but I have been playing through to get a feel before commenting. I have been playing 7days since it came out on steam and have well over 8000 hours logged in that time since alpha 5.

I have seen a LOT of ideas come and go, some I agreed with and some not. I have been trying to give A17 a fair shake but for the most part I agree with the OP. There have been a lot of good ideas dropped by the wayside in preference of play-ability but so far each finished (non experimental) has been an improvement over the previous version. I hope that this trend continues, but there is going to have to be a LOT of balancing and tweaking done and quite a few additions made before this level gated system can be called an improvement.

I remain hopeful that the devs are as dedicated to making the best game ever as we are to playing it, but I fear that they have let short term greed and wanting a larger market distract them from that long term objective.

 
I know I've been a much bigger ass than roland has, yet people are attacking him, not me... The only real difference between us is, he's a moderator.
So my conclusion is that you people are bringing his moderator status into it, not him.

Food for thought.
Click to expand...
He also acts as an spokesman for TFP, so I guess people think he should act like it. Usually when you buy a product and speak to a spokesman of the company you expect to be treated with respect as an customer. (Regardless of your attitude)

He has his own personal opinion and thoughts just like you but when he communicates them its hard to tell if it is TFP opinion or his personal.

 
Ah your job sure sounds hard. I'm sorry.


You just argued, in the same post, that you don't deserve any criticism yet you outlined four reasons why myself, and any other poster with critical feedback about A17e should just GIVE UP. It's too early, so our arguments are invalid (absolutely not). Many of the issues are balancing related so give up, you're wasting your and our time talking about it (not so). Some issues will have to be modded so give up (we're playing A17e and giving feedback. you can't dismiss us with "do it yourself"). And lastly, the game just isn't for you anymore so give up and go play a different version. When you have that little "community mod" title next to your name, you have to realize that what you say is looked at differently than just any one. You are viewed as quasi-fun pimp staff, and as such, most assume you are privy to information we don't get to hear. Since we don't hear feedback in these critical threads from actual FP staff yay/nay/indifferent then most assume, probably too much so, that you are delivering TFP sentiments.

Getting a mildly even handed acknowledgement of a few items from you, like this, has been like trying to get a dog that likes to kill chickens to stop killing chickens. This is precisely what I wanted to hear from you. Acknowledgement that there are indeed problems, and wishes that they get reconciled during the experimental phase of A17.

That wasn't all that difficult now was it?
Click to expand...
The problem, for me anyway Poojam, is that I've made those concerns known about A17 before then, but since I wear a Moderator tag many people with other concerns about A17 assume I'm just shilling for TFP. You yourself seem to be inferring that my statement was the first time I'd acknowledged any concerns over A17, when it absolutely wasn't.

Unlike some people (and I don't necessarily mean you here), it's just that I don't feel the need to jump up and down, stamp around, and be abusive or insulting when I voice my personal preferences for changes to the game.

Nor do I say that the four issues to feedback mean people should just "Give up", and I've been an advocate of greater player freedom EVER SINCE I signed up to these forums. Some people though, have tried A17.E for barely a week and yet are already claiming (with zero credibility by the way), that it signals end of all enjoyment (often for everyone!! no less) because they didn't like >insert random feature< here, and moreover, decry anyone who doesn't agree with them.

- - - Updated - - -

He also acts as an spokesman for TFP, so I guess people think he should act like it. Usually when you buy a product and speak to a spokesman of the company you expect to be treated with respect as an customer. (Regardless of your attitude)
Click to expand...
Well, with all due respect carbonkid, I disagree here. If someone can't put their opinion down with a reasonable amount of civility then it's on them for the lack of attention paid to said opinion.

 
Well, with all due respect carbonkid, I disagree here. If someone can't put their opinion down with a reasonable amount of civility then it's on them for the lack of attention paid to said opinion.
Click to expand...
You and the majority off every staff member who works in any profession where they have to deal with customers.

And rather slap them over the face they instead smiles, nods and says: "Thank you sir for your feed back. I'll pass it forward to my manager!"

Usually the former is referred to as "Bad for business" :D

 
He also acts as an spokesman for TFP, so I guess people think he should act like it. Usually when you buy a product and speak to a spokesman of the company you expect to be treated with respect as an customer. (Regardless of your attitude)He has his own personal opinion and thoughts just like you but when he communicates them its hard to tell if it is TFP opinion or his personal.
Click to expand...
If he (edit: goes for every mod) was professional about it he would just moderate the forum. However, since his bosses are okay with what he's doing and don't hold him to any different standard then who is to say it's not acceptable? If he is okay with becoming a part of the pie throwing crowd then that's his business. Not that it looks too good but it's up to him at this point. As a business as a hole I would do things differently and actually have a much more community including approach. It's EA, which is a bit of a weird deal, but once you make it with your backers, then there is no turning back and they expect inclusion. It's our money that pays their rent, their gas money, their bills and fills their fridges, what we are getting in return equates to "thoughts and prayers". Not much really. You can tell that people on this forum are not used to having much of an open dialogue with the developer because the level of frustration and infighting is so high (and I myself am frustrated).

If persons in a position of power (devs, moderators) regularly spend some time to come to talk, openly discuss and to actually have a back and forth about what they want and what the customers are hoping for, you get a much more relaxed and happy atmosphere in your community. A lot of people here are high strung and slashing at each other (again, not saying I hold myself to any higher standard than that), which is evidence of a lack of communication and direction amongst the customers.

There are most likely developers who have done a better job in regard to how to meet the community and with that will also have had less problems of this kind. When choosing to start an EA project it's wise to also put aside community time, not only development time - and it's entirely your problem how to get it to work - nobody asked you do to this. But as soon as you take someone's money, you're making a deal based on promises that you're expected to keep.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Can you name a dev team that "gets involved" like this one does?

... I can't.

Between the forums, irc, discord, streams, stream chats, and having actually had some join my /modded/ server, I'm surprised they have even found time to build the game.

I'm GRATEFUL Roland et al isn't the typical forum moderator... I'm GLAD he's still a player first...

So I say no thanks to whatever utopia you're describing... It sounds very boring and uninformative.

 
I'm really liking the game so far.... but I would like it a lot more if I could figure out how to tweak the lighting and turn off the weather effects. I really don't want to keep popping Zofran and BP meds to play this without barfing everywhere and without triggering migraines lol.

I'm used to skills being gated. That doesn't really bother me. I don't have to master every single tier- just the things I'm most interested in as a soloist.

It's a lot slower going and a WHOLE lot more dangerous. Bird nests seem to be a lot more rare, but vultures are more plentiful so it sort of evens out :D

BUT... I'm a dwarf and a builder. I usually don't venture out very far from where I make my base. I'll be camping on top of buildings with frames along the outside edges, until I level up to being able to make my "shark tanks" (9x9 wide fort, 3 floors high, a"basement" level made of pillars for sniping from that's just 4 blocks below ground and 3 spaces wide beyond the pillars for spike and log traps).

With drops so limited, though, what would be my reward? I'd rather not deal with runners.

And I say this now, having done no mining at all. I'm a miner and to have that so vastly restricted may be too painful.

 
If he (edit: goes for every mod) was professional about it he would just moderate the forum.
Click to expand...
So as a Moderator I don't have the right to express my opinions? I didn't stop playing 7Days when I accepted the role of moderator, and I'm very careful to separate my opinions from my moderating duties (when I moderate, for example, it's in green bolded text).

Indeed, since we don't get paid to moderate, by definition, we're not professionals - we're just keen players and fans of the game who'd like to see these forums conducted in an adult manner, so that the Pimps can get the best picture possible of what feedback the playerbase is giving them.

 
Indeed, since we don't get paid to moderate, by definition, we're not professionals - we're just keen players and fans of the game who'd like to see these forums conducted in an adult manner, so that the Pimps can get the best picture possible of what feedback the playerbase is giving them.
Click to expand...
Then sign me up

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top