PC A20 Developer Diary Discussions
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MechanicalLens
New member
He might have a toe claw attack animation?
Not gonna lie, being dropkicked or roundhouse kicked by a hazmat zombie would be awesome.Â
SrslyGTFO
New member
Supposedly if you shoot off their limbs, they're still supposed to be able to bite you. Kinda hard with that mask in the way.He might have a toe claw attack animation?
Hazmat headbutt, adding 0% infection chance but a higher stun chance would be super funny
Laz Man
Fun Pimps Staff
I hear there is another game on steam called hobo: tough life that may scratch your hobo itch hehe.
KhaineGB
Well-known member
People often forget you can use ANYTHING in a pinch.Sure, but only if collision with every rock, garbage pile, cinder block, etc. is turned on and if you skate off the paved road into gravel or dirt you fly off with critical chance to break both your arm and your leg.
Will you be as good with it? No. Will it still kill zombies? Yes.
Then use it!
Gazz
Fun Pimps Staff
Oh, I know. The players going with an Int build do not use the stun baton the same way they would use a club.
If you want both great melee dps and cool turrets then you need to invest in 2 attributes.
I get that some players would prefer if whatever attribute they pick had always the best dps and best effects and it should all be on one item to avoid the stress of thinking. I just don't want to do that. =P
For every single weapon, and yes, that includes batons and spears, someone will always pipe up that this is their favourite weapon.
That doesn't mean that these people are stupid or wrong because those are not always the optimal dps weapons - they just play in a different way, using the strengths of those weapons instead of stubbornly amplifying their weaknesses.
Blake_
Captain Obvious
That's why I said that POIs are a non issue. It's pretty easy to plan ahead and make choke points. Hordes though, are extremely lacking on bases that require movility AND only use INT builds (I REALLY mean no bullets other than the turret ones, no explosives, no traps, no firearms whatsoever, I said INT and pure INT offensive melee/ranged alone, 2 turrets and the baton)). This rant is mainly about the combat effectiveness of the baton, which is arguably useful ONLY with the repulsor mod, and it should be way better than it is . DPS can be forgiven if there were OP mods for this weapon. The problem is one of DPS nevertheless due to the fact that dps of the baton is 20-36 and turrets do around 20 each, for a grand total of "YOU ARE GOING TO DIE " even with those 130 rounds per minute of the Turret. You can't fend off an horde without explosives, traps, firearms or any other melee weapon and using only the baton and 2 turrets? Man be serious, You might be able to escape, but you won't kill much in a common base. Not nearly as much as with any other pure build (again, no traps). INT lacks killing on that front, it's just delay fluff and does not have actual combat strenght so it relies heavily on electrical traps, so while the main combat capabilities are just passive support even while the player tries to be active with that crappy baton, the traps are valuable.Â
IF we make a funnel base and concentrate a late-game horde, we might be able to fend off the horde. In this case INT's strenght is actually in crafting traps faster and managing resources more efficiently, as we talked about before, but still, baton is pretty useless.
By "fire" mod I meant "Burning Shaft" mod. It was pretty clear with my explanation though. Baton cannot have the burning shaft mod, so that is also a serious (yet realistic) handicap vs the Stone Axe.Â
On paper seems to do higher damage, but it's actually false if we use the burning shaft mod. The actual result is several Zds burning and the baton lagging WAAAY behind the Stone Axe, resulting in the Stone Axe being better with little argument (even talking into account the repulsor mod).
At the end of my test those 25 radiated workers had from 300 to 400 (out of 800+ hp if I remember correctly). Yet the baton was only doing those 1200 damage with little to no dismemberment and just some flying electrocutions which did nothing more than delaying the kills.
Just try the test yourself. Also, remember to do it FULLY MODED LVL 6 on all the weapons.
The baton is the best roll I could find. They do not differ more than 1 or 2 points within it's level though. Balance reasons.
You can fend off an horde, but the kill count is pretty low, because the baton does 20 damage and both turrets also do so (18-21 damage fully modded). So with no traps nor explosives nor any firearm nor any other help but height, you will not kill at all and therefore a pure INT build is lacking on dps combat without traps , which doesn't happen at all with any other builds.
I was talking about the top tier club, which is not the baseball bat my man. It's the Steel Club. And Yeah. It's actually around 250% more than the baton, which is brutal and unbalanced. A sledge is around 400% more (always with full mods and best roll I could find of course).
I see you didn't see the screenshots. I showed pictures of the baton inmy test with the best of the best mods and ALL BOOKs and ALL perks man. If you didn't see the pictures then I will give you additional info: As you can see, steel club lvl 6 is around 2.5 times better than the baton base damage (250%) and the Sledge is more than 4 times better (400%+ more). You get the gist of it.
Also. YOU CAN win the horde with a club and a wall. Actually done it several times with nothing but the base and the club. No traps. Melee base with a corridor to escape little by little with hatches.Â
You cannot do that with baton+turret+sledge and no traps (combined damaged is 60-80 dps)Â Â But yeah, you are absolutely right that INT has an edge with materials and electrical traps, yet the baton is still crap and absolutely useless in many a situation , which is the main point of my sexy rant.
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canadianbluebeer
New member
Int with traps can basically sit back and take a nap during hordes if done right.
You will need mining and LOTS of iron though.
60 dart traps take a lot of feeding, but can handle pretty much ANY horde.
It gets kinda boring.
(just remember to turn OFF the 'lectricity before you go collect the loot bags)
oops!
(yes, I forgot once)
(once)
You will need mining and LOTS of iron though.
60 dart traps take a lot of feeding, but can handle pretty much ANY horde.
It gets kinda boring.
(just remember to turn OFF the 'lectricity before you go collect the loot bags)
oops!
(yes, I forgot once)
(once)
Blake_
Captain Obvious
Spears are pretty good because of range and ability to be thrown alone. Not even taking into account the coolness of its stats nor perks.
Baton has only the repulsor mod as its core capabilities are lacking. Repulsor mod and fully perked and read character will still make it crap. So baton needs more specific cool mods/bonuses/perks to be well balanced. That's the short version of my rant. INT is good. INT is fine. And thinking is a good thing sometimes. Not for my sweet sledge though.
Matt115
New member
nope i was thinking about something like cart from valheim but this is post apo so metal cart would looks better
Matt115
New member
They have good range but preety small dmg so i think it should be buffed at least throwned dmg like : weak melee but when it throw it would do massive dmg ( 1 quality spear like 2 quality shotgun )
@faatal there will be some changes in spear balance?
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Jost Amman
Well-known member
Fanatical_Meat
Well-known member
There is a mod that allows you to craft (or find?) a shopping cart to load stuff in and push around.
dcsobral
New member
The batton can definitely do it. The electrocution does damage over time, and with the AoE of nerd tats you are applying damage over a lot of zombies. When the club cannot keep up, I switch to the stun baton + nerd tats + repulsor. Why that isn't the case for you I have no idea, but I have held off hordes of 64 simultaneous zombies with it.
As for steel club vs baton, the baton is a mid-tier melee weapon so of course it's much worse. You have to compare it to the baseball bat, iron spear, iron sledgehammer or knife. There's no top tier melee weapon in the intellect build.
Matt115
New member
Well in my opion sledgehammer is the best melee so rest of them became useless xd so baton should get buff or and new better baton high-tier /
Int tree by design encourages the use of guns outside of the int tree. Why would you rely on only turrets and stun batons when you lose no advantages by also using an ak or shotgun or w/e.Â
Since the int tree ranged weapon is the turrets, which can be placed, it is obvious to me that you are also supposed to use the non-perked or minimally perked gun of choice from the other trees. Not doing so seems stupid to me.
As for no traps, traps are in the int tree. You should definitely be making use of your ability to make them cheap and obtain some experience from their kills.Â
You are setting up arbitrary restrictions for no real reason that i can see. When you test strength builds, do you disallow the use of concrete since you get that by mining?
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dcsobral
New member
Make a pit, surround it with robotic turrets, throw zombies into the pit with stun baton (+ repulsor mod + nerd tats), profit. Use more than two turrets so that new turrets take over as turrets run out of ammo. Either AP or shotgun ammo. That's one way of using turrets and not using guns, but the point of this thread (which is entirely off-topic and will be moved away sooner or later) is analyzing the effectiveness of the weapons of Intellect tree by themselves, vs the effectiveness of weapons of other attributes.
BFT2020
Well-known member
You can not simply just compare Weapon A to Weapon B. That is not how this is game was designed. You have to understand how the setup you have chosen should be played effectively. How you play a pure Strength build is different from how you would play a pure Agility build vs how you would play a pure Int build. When I max my perks into strength build, I know I can stand toe to toe with zombies (Heavy armor, Club or Sledge, Shotgun) and tear them apart at close range. When I spec into the agility build, I am all about mobility and getting in an initial sneak attack (Light armor, blades, archery, gunslinger, hidden strike, flurry of blows). When I play Int, it is all about making use of my turrets with my baton as my backup should things get too hairy.
In all of these cases though, I am always using weapons outside of my primary builds (including sniper rifles and assault rifles - nothing is preventing me in my current Agility playthrough of using the sniper rifle, the shotgun, assault rifles, or turrets). Heck, the last time I played Int as my primary build, I was using a compound bow to get sneak shots in when clearing out POIs even though I didn't put one point into the archery perk tree.
If you want to limit your weapons based on the tree you picked, that is your choice. The game is not pushing you to do that and more power to you. But you cannot claim that the game is unbalanced because you made those choices. I have not seen any comments from TFP staff that should you perk into strength, you are not allowed to use pistols or assault rifles. The same thing applies to Int builds.
My biggest complaint about the Int tree is obtaining the stun baton. Right now in Alpha, I can be very unlucky and not get it for a long time. That is why I am excited to see A20 with the pipe weapons and the pipe baton.
In all of these cases though, I am always using weapons outside of my primary builds (including sniper rifles and assault rifles - nothing is preventing me in my current Agility playthrough of using the sniper rifle, the shotgun, assault rifles, or turrets). Heck, the last time I played Int as my primary build, I was using a compound bow to get sneak shots in when clearing out POIs even though I didn't put one point into the archery perk tree.
If you want to limit your weapons based on the tree you picked, that is your choice. The game is not pushing you to do that and more power to you. But you cannot claim that the game is unbalanced because you made those choices. I have not seen any comments from TFP staff that should you perk into strength, you are not allowed to use pistols or assault rifles. The same thing applies to Int builds.
My biggest complaint about the Int tree is obtaining the stun baton. Right now in Alpha, I can be very unlucky and not get it for a long time. That is why I am excited to see A20 with the pipe weapons and the pipe baton.