PC V2.3 Experimental

Some thoughts (some random) about V2.3 experimental

  • I actually like that biome progression is not a linear path anymore. I did unlock Burnt forest and then desert....but since I am playing a Wasteland center map, having to travel around the wasteland for multiple trips on my minibike as I moved my base from the Pine Forest to Desert was a non-starter. Luckily I was able to unlock wasteland fairly quickly to shorten the drive distance between trips.
  • I do miss loot stage caps on the biomes. I haven't yet tried to see if I can code them back in, probably attempt to do so when I finish my current playthrough
  • I do miss that the plague splitters are now not cloaking. I thought that was an interesting add to the game play.
  • I think the infection rate of plague bees might be too low. I have yet to get infected and I am not that good of a gamer to avoid them all the time.
  • Not a fan that you can wait out storms in unlocked biomes in a shelter and not have to worry about the biome effects. With POIs being all over the place, you don't have to prepare a lot of biome gear to wait out the storm. I actually enjoyed having to either wait it out (if I had enough supplies on hand to craft more) or leave so not to get caught up in a storm too long in the biome
  • Found out in Fort Razor that some of the tents will protect you from a storm event....the porta potties, not so much.
 
BFT2020 said:
Some thoughts (some random) about V2.3 experimental
  • I do miss loot stage caps on the biomes. I haven't yet tried to see if I can code them back in, probably attempt to do so when I finish my current playthrough
Click to expand...

I'd be interested in such a mod, if you're willing to share.

BFT2020 said:
  • Not a fan that you can wait out storms in unlocked biomes in a shelter and not have to worry about the biome effects. With POIs being all over the place, you don't have to prepare a lot of biome gear to wait out the storm. I actually enjoyed having to either wait it out (if I had enough supplies on hand to craft more) or leave so not to get caught up in a storm too long in the biome
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Not a fan, either. I don't think we'll have to wait long for mods addressing that, though.
 
Cruiser said:
When you grow up, and become an adult wannabe gamer like the rest of us, you will realize something extremely important. Namely, What you want you aint getting, and what you are getting, you dont want ;-)

Which is mor a core rule of any sandbox/progression game, than anything else.

So when you get the ones you need, you end up stockpililng them. Fast. In 2.1, I ended up making 4 armor sets, 14 tools and 22 weapons, that I crafted as tier 6, while still having 200+ leg parts when we wiped for 2.2 :cool:
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Gee, I can't wait to grow up to become an adult wannabe gamer!!!! 🤣
 
BFT2020 said:
Some thoughts (some random) about V2.3 experimental

  • I actually like that biome progression is not a linear path anymore. I did unlock Burnt forest and then desert....but since I am playing a Wasteland center map, having to travel around the wasteland for multiple trips on my minibike as I moved my base from the Pine Forest to Desert was a non-starter. Luckily I was able to unlock wasteland fairly quickly to shorten the drive distance between trips.
  • I do miss loot stage caps on the biomes. I haven't yet tried to see if I can code them back in, probably attempt to do so when I finish my current playthrough
  • I do miss that the plague splitters are now not cloaking. I thought that was an interesting add to the game play.
  • I think the infection rate of plague bees might be too low. I have yet to get infected and I am not that good of a gamer to avoid them all the time.
  • Not a fan that you can wait out storms in unlocked biomes in a shelter and not have to worry about the biome effects. With POIs being all over the place, you don't have to prepare a lot of biome gear to wait out the storm. I actually enjoyed having to either wait it out (if I had enough supplies on hand to craft more) or leave so not to get caught up in a storm too long in the biome
  • Found out in Fort Razor that some of the tents will protect you from a storm event....the porta potties, not so much.
Click to expand...
You see, this is the problem right now; people complain so TFP removes stuff, then others reply that they want it back in. How can TFP please everyone? Adding switches in Settings for 200 different things... I don't think so.

It's more difficult for console owners (PS5, Xbox series X/S) since they cannot have mods, so they want certain things in game and I get that because that's the only way they will ever get those features.

TFP should probably have a poll here, on Steam, X, Reddit and see what people want or don't want. But, it still might not represent what most people want because of the silent majority, since they are, well... Silent.

I think that TFP should have kept going with their original plan and tell people be patient and wait for the final product.
As of now , they try to please a few people, only to aggravate others who liked the changes.

TFP will never please everyone so why bother making changes. It's their game, they are in charge and I trust them as I've always have ever since I got the game 11 years ago.

God bless you Fun Pimps for making such a fun and wonderful game.
 
Space4Ace said:
You see, this is the problem right now; people complain so TFP removes stuff, then others reply that they want it back in. How can TFP please everyone? Adding switches in Settings for 200 different things... I don't think so.

It's more difficult for console owners (PS5, Xbox series X/S) since they cannot have mods, so they want certain things in game and I get that because that's the only way they will ever get those features.

TFP should probably have a poll here, on Steam, X, Reddit and see what people want or don't want. But, it still might not represent what most people want because of the silent majority, since they are, well... Silent.

I think that TFP should have kept going with their original plan and tell people be patient and wait for the final product.
As of now , they try to please a few people, only to aggravate others who liked the changes.

TFP will never please everyone so why bother making changes. It's their game, they are in charge and I trust them as I've always have ever since I got the game 11 years ago.

God bless you Fun Pimps for making such a fun and wonderful game.
Click to expand...
I thought, with the town hall, that they understood they needed to stop for minute, talk to us, reassess what they are doing, and then finish the game.

I wasn't looking forward to another delay, but, felt one was necessary, to get the game back on course.

So yeah, I agree, I thought they should be gathering opinions from those willing to give one...apparently they are not doing that.
just like they are not talking on their own forum. In all honesty It looks like they dropped 2.3, two weeks ago, and went on vacation.

You have a much higher opinion of TFP than I do, I don't believe they have a master plan. They are still imagineering this game.

It would have been great if they had had the money to just make the game THEY wanted...and THEN sold it to us. Instead they crowd funded...and it's taken years and years and still is not done...which meant people were bound to get attached to what they had...not what the game WILL BE...someday...when they figure it out. I agree, given those conditions, it is impossible to please everyone.

At this point I just want the 2.0 fixes so I have something to play while I wait patiently until Q4 2026 for 3.0
 
Space4Ace said:
How can TFP please everyone?
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They can't, and the fact that they're in this business, you gotta assume they understand that.

But let me say this...I just got finished with my 50 day A16 run and HOLY MOLY, people gotta be smoking the most powerful of crack rocks to think it's a better version of the game. I went back to V2.2 yesterday and it felt like I got paroled or something. It's so much more fun and engaging. People that say "TFP don't know what they're doing" are actually the ones that don't know what they're doing.

The current version of the game (A21 to now) is actually A GAME! I don't know what to consider A16. An experiment? A not so fleshed out demo? A time wasting simulator?

People say that they want A16 with current day graphics, but the only thing of value in A16 is how it looks. Not the texture quality, but some aspects of the lighting, the grittiness, the super thick fog (even though the fog in 2.2 is pretty dam good), the color grading, etc. It has more of a horror feel to it.

I hope TFP don't go too far in trying to revert what we have now to what the Steam review bombers want, though I'm sure they won't.

They just gotta fix the friggin' brightness below 50% indoors during the day. It gets too dark indoors! I also discovered if you're outside and stand up against an exterior wall, the game registers you as indoors and it starts getting dark OUTSIDE! It's KILLING ME...literally. Big Mama killed me because of it.
 
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HammerDano said:
I thought, with the town hall, that they understood they needed to stop for minute, talk to us, reassess what they are doing, and then finish the game.

I wasn't looking forward to another delay, but, felt one was necessary, to get the game back on course.

So yeah, I agree, I thought they should be gathering opinions from those willing to give one...apparently they are not doing that.
just like they are not talking on their own forum. In all honesty It looks like they dropped 2.3, two weeks ago, and went on vacation.

You have a much higher opinion of TFP than I do, I don't believe they have a master plan. They are still imagineering this game.

It would have been great if they had had the money to just make the game THEY wanted...and THEN sold it to us. Instead they crowd funded...and it's taken years and years and still is not done...which meant people were bound to get attached to what they had...not what the game WILL BE...someday...when they figure it out. I agree, given those conditions, it is impossible to please everyone.

At this point I just want the 2.0 fixes so I have something to play while I wait patiently until Q4 2026 for 3.0
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I think the point he was trying to make is that no matter what TFP does, a portion of their playerbase is going to be upset if they make changes in order to please some *other* portion of their playerbase. And the largest (or at least the loudest) group is always going to win any sort of popularity contest. The squeaky wheel gets the grease and that's just how it is. No town hall or opinion poll is going to change the fact that TFP will never be able to please everyone.

Personally, I prefer dangerous storms and loot caps. But there was a huge uproar about these two things. People hated the storms, and they hated the loot caps. So these things have been removed to please the majority. What *I* want doesn't matter because I'm outvoted. The reason I don't complain (much) about this kind of stuff is because I can just go find a mod, or mod the game myself, and my problem is solved.
 
Double G said:
But let me say this...I just got finished with my 50 day A16 run and HOLY MOLY, people gotta be smoking the most powerful of crack rocks to think it's a better version of the game. I went back to V2.2 yesterday and it felt like I got paroled or something. It's so much more fun and engaging. People that say "TFP don't know what they're doing" are actually the ones that don't know what they're doing.
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Yeap, I did also play Alpha 16 on the weekend with my brother because he saw both, GNS and WaywardEko playing it in their video or stream recently.
We played for 2 hours tops and decided to go back to 2.3 Exp. Even the performance was not as good as what I get in V2.3 Exp.
It was nice to see A16 again, but no thank you, I don't wish to go back.

Funny mistake on my part: I showed my brother how to make a backup of his saves folder so he wouldn't lose his progress if he ever wanted to go back to 2.3 Exp. So, I explain everything while on chat with him... Open this, go there, copy that, and so on.
Well, while doing so, I completely forgot to copy my own folder and I'm the one hosting are most recent game... Big OOPS!
The last time I made a backup was a week or 2 ago so, we lost a good 14 days of gameplay and we agreed it was best to start a new game.

(Imagine the sound of someone losing at The price Is Right or the buzzer for giving a wrong answer) 😁
 
EvilPolygons said:
Personally, I prefer dangerous storms and loot caps. But there was a huge uproar about these two things. People hated the storms, and they hated the loot caps. So these things have been removed to please the majority. What *I* want doesn't matter because I'm outvoted. The reason I don't complain (much) about this kind of stuff is because I can just go find a mod, or mod the game myself, and my problem is solved.
Click to expand...
All that complaining from 2 features (Biome Badges and Storms), 2 features that could be turned off.
I think (if I understand correctly, is that some people were triggered that TFP spent so much time on those features that those people didn't like, and they were thinking that time would have been better spent on other features instead, like bandits (even if everyone knows that bandits are scheduled for V3.0, not V2.0). Faatal even said in an earlier post that work on bandits would resume once all V2.x stuff was done.

Some features did need a bit of tweaking (which is mostly done in V2.3 Exp). I love how the experimental feels right now and hope everyone gets to try V2.3 very soon.
 
Space4Ace said:
You see, this is the problem right now; people complain so TFP removes stuff, then others reply that they want it back in. How can TFP please everyone? Adding switches in Settings for 200 different things... I don't think so.
It's more difficult for console owners (PS5, Xbox series X/S) since they cannot have mods, so they want certain things in game and I get that because that's the only way they will ever get those features.
...
TFP will never please everyone so why bother making changes. It's their game, they are in charge and I trust them as I've always have ever since I got the game 11 years ago.
Click to expand...

A dream-case scenario, in my idea - as someone who doesn't know squat about the limitations of Steam Workshop - is that on Workshop's integration launch (which I'm assuming will be in the final windings-down of 7DTD development) TFP might put up "official" Workshop items of substantial game changes that people have demanded; just as examples, a TFP-assembled Workshop pack to switch from the looted-magazine system to an alternative LBD-or-LBD-adjacent system, or a "hardercore survival" system of more food/water scarcity with substantially nerfed dew collectors and farming. It's incredibly unlikely, but it'd be one hell of an officially published placation to people upset about the development routes taken. They might trample on already-existing mods, but... well, people are going to complain no matter what, and it's a hypothetical endgame olive-branch of sorts. Heck, maybe they'd simply publish a compilation-pack from modders willing to be part of it.

There might be no way to extend that to console, but... well, it's console. Console owners should be well familiarized with having no control over their gaming experience aside from what they're explicitly given.

Mind you, I'm not personally passionate about LBD/LBR or more complex survival mechanics, I just have a lot of time to think to myself when I'm driving. My biggest request for 7DTD currently is just more zombie variety - specials are great, but more plains are great and probably easier to make, too.
 
Ostentatio said:
A dream-case scenario, in my idea - as someone who doesn't know squat about the limitations of Steam Workshop - is that on Workshop's integration launch (which I'm assuming will be in the final windings-down of 7DTD development) TFP might put up "official" Workshop items of substantial game changes that people have demanded; just as examples, a TFP-assembled Workshop pack to switch from the looted-magazine system to an alternative LBD-or-LBD-adjacent system, or a "hardercore survival" system of more food/water scarcity with substantially nerfed dew collectors and farming. It's incredibly unlikely, but it'd be one hell of an officially published placation to people upset about the development routes taken. They might trample on already-existing mods, but... well, people are going to complain no matter what, and it's a hypothetical endgame olive-branch of sorts. Heck, maybe they'd simply publish a compilation-pack from modders willing to be part of it.
Click to expand...

The Workshop 'Collections' feature already allows a basic version of that. It's used quite a bit in some games like Stellaris to assemble what amounts to "mega" mods out of smaller individual mods. So the idea isn't at all outlandish -- it's quite doable.
 
Space4Ace said:
You see, this is the problem right now; people complain so TFP removes stuff, then others reply that they want it back in. How can TFP please everyone? Adding switches in Settings for 200 different things... I don't think so.
Click to expand...

kDAeB6M.jpg
 
Double G said:
They can't, and the fact that they're in this business, you gotta assume they understand that.

But let me say this...I just got finished with my 50 day A16 run and HOLY MOLY, people gotta be smoking the most powerful of crack rocks to think it's a better version of the game. I went back to V2.2 yesterday and it felt like I got paroled or something. It's so much more fun and engaging. People that say "TFP don't know what they're doing" are actually the ones that don't know what they're doing.

The current version of the game (A21 to now) is actually A GAME! I don't know what to consider A16. An experiment? A not so fleshed out demo? A time wasting simulator?

People say that they want A16 with current day graphics, but the only thing of value in A16 is how it looks. Not the texture quality, but some aspects of the lighting, the grittiness, the super thick fog (even though the fog in 2.2 is pretty dam good), the color grading, etc. It has more of a horror feel to it.

I hope TFP don't go too far in trying to revert what we have now to what the Steam review bombers want, though I'm sure they won't.

They just gotta fix the friggin' brightness below 50% indoors during the day. It gets too dark indoors! I also discovered if you're outside and stand up against an exterior wall, the game registers you as indoors and it starts getting dark OUTSIDE! It's KILLING ME...literally. Big Mama killed me because of it.
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Prior to 2.0 being dropped our group (once weekly game) did some time on A15 and A16 as a change from the 1.3 we were playing. While I appreciate the greater variety of trees (I miss the birch) and terrain (swamp, etc) the lack of overall polish was painful. Even the simple use of hotkeys to drop items was not there, had to mouse around for it. As Double G. put it, it felt like punishment to not have locked inventory slots, inventory sort and inventory transfer (same and all). Plus, the towns were friggen skimpy.
 
EvilPolygons said:
I think the point he was trying to make is that no matter what TFP does, a portion of their playerbase is going to be upset if they make changes in order to please some *other* portion of their playerbase. And the largest (or at least the loudest) group is always going to win any sort of popularity contest. The squeaky wheel gets the grease and that's just how it is. No town hall or opinion poll is going to change the fact that TFP will never be able to please everyone.

Personally, I prefer dangerous storms and loot caps. But there was a huge uproar about these two things. People hated the storms, and they hated the loot caps. So these things have been removed to please the majority. What *I* want doesn't matter because I'm outvoted. The reason I don't complain (much) about this kind of stuff is because I can just go find a mod, or mod the game myself, and my problem is solved.
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The problem I see is that a large part of the community of this game does not like survival mechanics, and when tfp does something like storms for example people complain that they are tedious or annoying etc, when there are other more tedious examples that people seem to be happy with, this game is supposed to be a mix of genres and one of them is survival no matter how much they say otherwise, some may argue that the storms came out in bad shape, and in a bad way, and yes there is a lot of work that can be done to improve them, but the “majority” do not want dangerous storms for the player, or survival mechanics, they want it to be something merely visual, or that only affects you marginally, tfp can not please everyone, but the fact that they discard interesting ideas such as dangerous storms, for a noisy minority is not something that pleases those who pay for the game,

Mods are a lifesaver for many, as long as your tastes align with those of the moder, or the mod in question is updated to the latest version, which is not easy, not everyone knows how to modify the game.
 
grz__ said:
for a noisy minority
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I wouldn’t be so quick to assume who the noisy minority is. Everyone on this forum is part of the “nosy minority” when compared to the player base writ large. And from where I’m sitting the casual players likely outnumber the survival/sim enthusiasts. Of course I could be equally mistaken. But if what I wanted was a true survival experience I would just play a different game, Icarus, Green Hell, etc.

I’ve been playing since A15 and while there have been plenty of changes it’s still fundamentally the same game: build base, mine, loot, fight zombies. It has always been a survival lite. And the survival elements mostly disappear as soon as you understand the game loop, how to get a cooking pot, etc.

Ultimately, I think a lot of the frustration in the forums are because people hoped that the game would go in a different direction and not so much that it ever changed direction. Simply put, people had an idea in their head of what the final release would look like and it’s easier to accuse TFP of changing the game than accept that their aspirational hopes were incorrect.
 
While working in the World Editor I see all of these "parts" like fences on some of the yards in poi's or might be the tile as well as a Single Street Light on a light pole on a tile. My questions is and nothing against the design team but shouldn't the tile be fixed or poi instead of just adding a "part" to fix it? What is the added cost to performance of said "parts" in total on a map? I'm just curious.
 
Kosmic Kerman said:
I wouldn’t be so quick to assume who the noisy minority is. Everyone on this forum is part of the “nosy minority” when compared to the player base writ large. And from where I’m sitting the casual players likely outnumber the survival/sim enthusiasts. Of course I could be equally mistaken. But if what I wanted was a true survival experience I would just play a different game, Icarus, Green Hell, etc.

I’ve been playing since A15 and while there have been plenty of changes it’s still fundamentally the same game: build base, mine, loot, fight zombies. It has always been a survival lite. And the survival elements mostly disappear as soon as you understand the game loop, how to get a cooking pot, etc.

Ultimately, I think a lot of the frustration in the forums are because people hoped that the game would go in a different direction and not so much that it ever changed direction. Simply put, people had an idea in their head of what the final release would look like and it’s easier to accuse TFP of changing the game than accept that their aspirational hopes were incorrect.
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Yeah, the mayority are probably the ones who never speak out on the internet about the game, of which I was one not too long ago,
The game as I said is a survival part, that's how it was sold and what it says on steam, the storms are not any hardcore simulation mechanics, when the release of 2. 0, it's a pretty simple mechanic if you compare it to other games, that's the problem, at the minimum there is a survival approach, some see it as tedious or hardcore and something that is better to avoid, infections, diseases, more complex farming system, when the game is part survival it doesn't matter that it's more arcade than other titles, there are mechanics that have been lost over time, some are supposed to return, meanwhile we can only value what we have now, which is not little or bad, I just express my fear that mechanics that I like end up simplified because the “majority” do not like them.
 
HB_H4wk said:
While working in the World Editor I see all of these "parts" like fences on some of the yards in poi's or might be the tile as well as a Single Street Light on a light pole on a tile. My questions is and nothing against the design team but shouldn't the tile be fixed or poi instead of just adding a "part" to fix it? What is the added cost to performance of said "parts" in total on a map? I'm just curious.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say the Part is there to "fix" the Tile. It represents optional content so that the Tile can take on different appearances as it gets reused in different places. This is what you probably see with a light pole. Sometimes the light might be damaged and dangling, other times it is normal. Sometimes the road is under construction and sometimes it isn't. Sometimes there's a farmer's roadside market and sometimes there's a different farmer's roadside market.

Parts also allow a POI to modify the Tile when they are placed. So, for instance, the Tile might have a sidewalk. But the Tile doesn't know where the POI needs a curb cut to allow for a driveway, so the driveway Part on the POI lets it overwrite the Tile's sidewalk.

The costs are during RWG and during runtime. RWG will decide which Tiles to use, which POIs to place, and within those Tiles and POIs it needs to figure out which Parts to place. You probably don't care about this time as it might just be 20 seconds of world generation time. During the game's runtime, Parts are going to get placed when the game needs to generate that portion of the world, as do Decorations, and everything in the world file. You're also going to see a POI and it's parts get refreshed when somebody starts a quest. These days, the randomization of the Parts (so that the same POI can be a bit different from another instance of itself) also happens then.

There would be some inefficiency in that a Tile's blocks load then a Part could overwrite it. Generally Parts are small, but they can be large. But if you reclaim that processing then you will lose some variety in the world, plus you'll lose the tight integration between POIs and Tiles.

IMO, Parts allow for some really cool things. It is a feature I very much enjoy. For instance, those Checkpoint POIs that block the road... that takes a Part.
 
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