PC Why did you ruin your game?

[Samcharles]

It's clear that loot should be more random, to encourage surprise and exploration

.It's also worth mentioning that finding a Tier 6 pistol early on doesn't make you OP, because you still need ammo, and it's not easy to have a lot of mining material at the beginning. Unless you're a masochist, besides having to level up to do more damage, it just has to be something rare to find. Of course, if you have 10 police cars and two police stations in a small city, it's a problem.

I agree, many mods are not updated, or are left abandoned, you can't depend on mods for everything

I think one of the big things that would make loot more interesting is putting treasure rooms back to only being in the big POIs. This would bring back the risk/reward at least to some degree.

 

[grz__]

I think one of the big things that would make loot more interesting is putting treasure rooms back to only being in the big POIs. This would bring back the risk/reward at least to some degree.

Yes, definitely good loot has to be rare to find and difficult to obtain. If you can just go straight to the loot room in a couple of houses, it won't be worth it. Those big poi

Also, it should be more random and not so tied to the looting phase.

 

[Vaeliorin]

I actually think that was one of the great things about the earlier versions of the game. For example, you're building your character to use rifles but early on you find a high quality shotgun. That causes you to reevaluate your build and mix it up. Now, this was also when item degradation was a thing, so it wouldn't last you forever, but while it lasted, you felt powerful and lucky. It led to some very memorable playthroughs, IMO.

There was also the fact that, at least if memory serves, back in A16, if you couldn't make something, you were also unable to repair that same item, which made me, at least, save it for emergencies.

At no point did I say it was. I said that LBD is not any more a sandbox thing than magazines. Why is it so hard to read what was said? Yes, I don't like LBD. That has nothing to do with what I said. I made a the point that LBD isn't sandbox. I gave an example of why. You found the example to be not what you wanted to hear. It has nothing to do with what you or I like in the game. It's a simple statement that LBD isn't sandbox. That's all there is to it. You can like LBD and still understand that it isn't sandbox. Liking or not liking it doesn't change that it isn't sandbox.

I preferred the way we had between LBD and magazines. I can live with magazines. I don't want LBD. That's been made clear enough times. But that has nothing to do with what I said.

But believe whatever you guys want to believe. Saying you want sandbox when you really mean you want LBD is just a way to end up with sandbox instead of LBD and being upset about it. If people can't understand that, that's on them. I don't feel like wasting more time trying to explain what should have been clear from the first post. If people can't understand that LBD isn't sandbox, so be it.

Let me first of all say sorry. I apparently was misunderstanding (or possibly reading my own biases into) what you were saying.

That said, while I did like LBD, I'm not in any way insistent on having it back. While I preferred it to the way it was before magazines, I'm perfectly okay with the way the perks worked from A17 until we had magazines. I just want more uniqueness to each playthrough back.

 

[Kalen]

There was also the fact that, at least if memory serves, back in A16, if you couldn't make something, you were also unable to repair that same item, which made me, at least, save it for emergencies.

Yup, good point. That was another limitation.

 

[bdubyah]

There was also the fact that, at least if memory serves, back in A16, if you couldn't make something, you were also unable to repair that same item, which made me, at least, save it for emergencies.

I forgot about that. I miss that. Would be nice to have for more advanced things, but you could still repair primitive stuff and maybe lower end things regardless. I mean, it makes sense. If you don't know how to craft it you probably wouldn't know how to repair it.

 

[Riamus]

I forgot about that. I miss that. Would be nice to have for more advanced things, but you could still repair primitive stuff and maybe lower end things regardless. I mean, it makes sense. If you don't know how to craft it you probably wouldn't know how to repair it.

I'm not sure how much sense it necessarily makes. I can't craft a digital camera, but I've repaired many of them. I can't craft a car, but I can replace parts without a problem. If you're using something like a solid steel club and it gets degraded, which for a steel club just means it gets bent or dulled or whatever, you could hammer it back straight or sharpen any edges without knowing how to forge a new one. Repairing is far easier to figure out for many things than actually constructing something from scratch.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be a bad option, though I don't know if I'd really want it. But as far as making sense, it kind of doesn't. But gameplay trumps realism, so it doesn't have to make sense.

 

[Syphon583]

I see this claim from time to time, but it's not really true. Being "introduced" to traders is linear, but you don't need to be introduced to them. They work just fine without taking or completing those "trade route" missions and can be done in any order.

2.0 broke that by locking biome progression, but that's been lifted so traders will be non-linear again.

Trader progression has been generally understood as the order in which you are introduced to each trader. That's it. And it has been the same since 1.0. They each have their respective biomes and you get "introduced" to them linearly. Yes, you can choose to go to any of them at any time. The only thing 2.0 did was it made getting into the biomes harder and the badge progression had to be rewarded by the trader in that biome. But, you could still choose to go too any of them anytime you wanted and obtain quests from them.

That's what I meant. 2.0 didn't change trader "progression" one bit. It added biome progression which utilized traders. These are two separate systems.

 

[Riamus]

Trader progression has been generally understood as the order in which you are introduced to each trader. That's it. And it has been the same since 1.0. They each have their respective biomes and you get "introduced" to them linearly. Yes, you can choose to go to any of them at any time. The only thing 2.0 did was it made getting into the biomes harder and the badge progression had to be rewarded by the trader in that biome. But, you could still choose to go too any of them anytime you wanted and obtain quests from them.

That's what I meant. 2.0 didn't change trader "progression" one bit. It added biome progression which utilized traders. These are two separate systems.

Technically, you were introduced to them in order since at least A20 through the open trade route quests. 1.0 just put them in specific biomes.

 

[7 Days to make their game]

A16 is widely accepted as the best version of vanilla 7DTD. It may look better now but with update after update, it has become a looter shooter instead of a survival game. Most of us have been playing for a long time and want a survival game like we were promised.

A17 introduced the "smart" zombies that made low cost cheese bases the sm meta. It took away learn by doing, part quality impacting the quality of the assembled product, and some other features.

Since then, we lost jars, clothing, actual weather and wetness effects, and others.

Every major release the new RPG style skill tree from a 17 got major changes. The zombie pathing seems like it was a fight between tfp and jawoodle in particular.

We traded wellness for magic candy. We traded weather for biome badges and smoothies.

I like the new maze like pois. But some of the larger remnants should have stayed so we have a mix.

Now, there were some good changes too. Graphics, more vehicles, trader quests and challenges, major improvement to structural integrity. But the game definitely lost it's "horror survival" direction.

A16 was a solid foundation to build on, but it seems like all of it's potential got wasted.

And what about the toxic developers who only want to see you play one way however they want, they completely ignore the community, when thanks to many of us we gave life to the game when it was still in alpha.

 

[Kyoji]

A16 is widely accepted as the best version of vanilla 7DTD. It may look better now but with update after update, it has become a looter shooter instead of a survival game. Most of us have been playing for a long time and want a survival game like we were promised.

A16 was a great time for sure, but there was a lot of stuff added later that makes the game very enjoyable such as tiles and proper cities in 1.0. There are several mechanics I think would be best brought back into the fold such as parts quality and darker nights to name two off the top of my head.

A17 introduced the "smart" zombies that made low cost cheese bases the sm meta. It took away learn by doing, part quality impacting the quality of the assembled product, and some other features.

I must be in the minority because I dislike allowing players to avoid critical functions of the game such as horde nights. I get that sometimes they go overboard or don't address the problem in a way that doesn't cause issues for other non-problematic bases, but overall I am fine with it.

Since then, we lost jars, clothing, actual weather and wetness effects, and others.

We have lost a lot of proper game systems or they were replaced with inferior or side-grade systems at best.

We traded wellness for magic candy. We traded weather for biome badges and smoothies.

I didn't like wellness myself, at least the way it was done. It was too easy to death spiral and maintaining wellness was annoying rather than satisfying.

I don't mind the candy and drinks as much but the magic armor is terrible. The biome badges and smoothies were also terrible and it's likely why they changed. Even if you don't like the current implementation I suppose it's good you can disable it.

I like the new maze like pois. But some of the larger remnants should have stayed so we have a mix.

I think some of the remnant POIs need to be touched up to offer more protection, loot and zombies such that it offsets questing. A half destroyed building with no walls is something I just skip past as there is no protection, loot or challenge. It's just a waste of time generally.

And what about the toxic developers who only want to see you play one way however they want, they completely ignore the community, when thanks to many of us we gave life to the game when it was still in alpha.

I don't agree with this assessment. First, you won't garner support for change without the developers so calling them toxic is tantamount to shooting yourself in the foot. Comments like this is why people who like some of the systems in A16 get yelled at by others when we ask for some alternative systems.

Second, you forget that they made changes based on feedback just recently and explicitly said they were listening. It's the best chance to get some of the game re-focused. You had a lot of good points and I agree with a lot of it, but it gets watered down by tears and mounds of salt.

As a whole we should try and be more constructive and less deconstructive in our feedback as without the developers there is 0% chance of getting the old game feelings we had running around naked on day one trying to find shelter and being truly afraid of the dark and zombies.

 

[Noxom]

We have lost a lot of proper game systems or they were replaced with inferior or side-grade systems at best.

Excuse me, but proper game systems? How do you believe this?

Jars were not proper, it was imbalanced and made water trivial. Clothing wasn't proper, most of it looked awkward, bent and clipped in weird places, and most options were inferior choices. "Actual weather" did almost nothing and was quickly negatable. Wetness did almost nothing. Gore blocks were not proper and caused issues. Looting every single zombie corpse was not proper, it was monotonous and annoying.

Can you explain which systems you consider proper? How many of these proper systems are store assets? Are the replacements actually inferior or is it your opinion spoken as fact? People always harp on this games systems but i've yet to see anyone prove that the older systems were objectively and mechanically better.

 

[Grandpa Minion]

A16 is widely accepted as the best version of vanilla 7DTD. It may look better now but with update after update, it has become a looter shooter instead of a survival game. Most of us have been playing for a long time and want a survival game like we were promised.

A17 introduced the "smart" zombies that made low cost cheese bases the sm meta. It took away learn by doing, part quality impacting the quality of the assembled product, and some other features.

Since then, we lost jars, clothing, actual weather and wetness effects, and others.

Every major release the new RPG style skill tree from a 17 got major changes. The zombie pathing seems like it was a fight between tfp and jawoodle in particular.

We traded wellness for magic candy. We traded weather for biome badges and smoothies.

I like the new maze like pois. But some of the larger remnants should have stayed so we have a mix.

Now, there were some good changes too. Graphics, more vehicles, trader quests and challenges, major improvement to structural integrity. But the game definitely lost it's "horror survival" direction.

A16 was a solid foundation to build on, but it seems like all of it's potential got wasted.

And what about the toxic developers who only want to see you play one way however they want, they completely ignore the community, when thanks to many of us we gave life to the game when it was still in alpha.

The biggest X factor from a16 to what it is now is the Quest system, back than quest didn't exist.
I made a post recently talking about all the negative effects the quest system has had on the game since a16.
but rest assured friend your not alone,
most veterans who playd back than understand and would agree with you the game has gone from a true survival to a forced directed style of play.
The quest system introduced a structured progression path vs free world exploring
quests made the game unbalanced allowing players to abuse prefabs for unlimited loot allowing them to stay in spot power leveling vs crafting and earning everything you get
Repetitive Gaming Loop:
Questing: "run to quest, complete quest, return to trader and turn in quest followed by rinse/repeating"

 

[theFlu]

made water trivial.

Water should be trivial. Still is, just also completely illogical.

Clothing wasn't proper

You don't use clothes?

"Actual weather" did almost nothing and was quickly negatable.

It's going to come back - and be even more trivial than before. Which is a shame.

Wetness did almost nothing.

Then .. make it do something?

Gore blocks were not proper and caused issues. Looting every single zombie corpse was not proper, it was monotonous and annoying.

Gore and corpse looting, yeh, I can agree there; they always felt weird and grindy. A good gore implementation might be interesting, for some actual wall climbing, but it would be negated by building weird stuff (like every block space is actually filled with tiny blocks); doesn't sound great.

 

[grz__]

Excuse me, but proper game systems? How do you believe this?

Jars were not proper, it was imbalanced and made water trivial. Clothing wasn't proper, most of it looked awkward, bent and clipped in weird places, and most options were inferior choices. "Actual weather" did almost nothing and was quickly negatable. Wetness did almost nothing. Gore blocks were not proper and caused issues. Looting every single zombie corpse was not proper, it was monotonous and annoying.

Can you explain which systems you consider proper? How many of these proper systems are store assets? Are the replacements actually inferior or is it your opinion spoken as fact? People always harp on this games systems but i've yet to see anyone prove that the older systems were objectively and mechanically better.

I don't agree, the jars don't need balance, it's just water,

The clothes were better than the magic armor.

The temperature was poorly done and weird at times, but better than nothing.

The gore blocks was fun and more immersive than a yellow bag, it's your opinion if it's monotonous or tedious, for me monotonous is mining 30 min to get materials, a couple of minutes cleaning bodies is nothing.

The wellness mechanic was good and rewarded you for cooking better food, and penalized you if you don't watch your hunger and thirst, or if you die.

Then you can argue about tastes, but there are things that were better than now.

I'm not saying that the old versions are better, just the systems I mentioned.

And other systems that have not been mentioned such as.
The system of cultivation with hoe and fertilizer.

Now those systems are more simplified, which doesn't make them better.

 

[Kyoji]

Excuse me, but proper game systems? How do you believe this?

Not just me if you haven't noticed. Also I not once said every system I said some.

Jars were not proper, it was imbalanced and made water trivial. Clothing wasn't proper, most of it looked awkward, bent and clipped in weird places, and most options were inferior choices. "Actual weather" did almost nothing and was quickly negatable. Wetness did almost nothing. Gore blocks were not proper and caused issues. Looting every single zombie corpse was not proper, it was monotonous and annoying.

So you think spending time developing the dew collector is better than fixing jars? I don't disagree jars needed some work, but so does the current water implementation so...

Clothing was fine. It was awkward and it clipped but it was functional. Now we have armor that negates fall damage. I much prefer the older system of armor and clothing even if it looked worse.

The people who say weather did nothing haven't played with the older temperature system or clearly don't remember. The system wasn't meant to outright kill you but it did leave you with 1HP. It made visiting zones you weren't ready to tackle far more challenging. Keep in mind we didn't have massive cities with clothing everywhere. You had to do some exploring to find proper outfits.

Wetness also did something. The idea isn't for it to be a major system in itself but to interact with major systems to enhance gameplay.

To top if off we used to have snow that would start falling and then the streets would be filled with it. Objects would be covered in snow and there was dynamic roads with cracks and holes. There were water puddles, etc. I can go on but generally the world felt more alive.

Also there were more zombies roaming around too and nights were darker.

Gore blocks I didn't enjoy so I will agree with you there.

Looting corpses was 10000% better than loot bag changes. When they adopted the system most people I remember hated it. There were some issues with looting the right corpse sometimes but that could easily be rectified.

Can you explain which systems you consider proper? How many of these proper systems are store assets? Are the replacements actually inferior or is it your opinion spoken as fact? People always harp on this games systems but i've yet to see anyone prove that the older systems were objectively and mechanically better.

Everything people post is their opinion obviously. Otherwise should I question whether you are posting as fact? You seem to be always defending the game. Can you name even 3 things you wouldn't mind seeing changed?

It seems like you are worked up about opinions that differ from your own. You tell me why the new implementations are better? In a discussion all I can do is put my ideas out there as do you and we see if we can find some middle ground.

 

[haskhane]

The game is called 7 Days to Die. For me, you have to prepare for the HORDES EVERY 7 days.
I hate being constantly bothered in my base by the screamers.
That's why, like many others, I love being quietly underground or high up.
The pleasure of being at home crafting your weapons into 4 pieces, your armor, your clothing.
I enjoy logic, so yes, I also liked the glass jars that break or plastic ones that puncture... zombies basically love fresh flesh, so living or dead animals, noise.
But how does a water collector bring zombies?
We all work, we enjoy immersion when we have the time, and we would like to have peace in our base and stop being harassed by those protesters who say 'my water, my water...'
The game is broken, it's lacking balance, I miss the darkness, the places where you can turn the light on and off.
When I bought the game in alpha a long time ago, I purchased it with a friend.
We know how to have fun until alpha 16, we were hoping for a train to take us from town to town or a cargo plane,
in the end we are really disappointed
I take a lot of pleasure in others and realize that this game has not been able to evolve and has become a month-long game, at the beginning of the game and then disappointed while waiting for the future alpha 3.0 FOR A NEW DISAPPOINTMENT.
I am starting to get used to the disappointments with fun pimps.

 

[Riamus]

What is "proper" or "better" is entirely subjective. It's opinion, and everyone has their own opinions about what is good or bad and proper or not.

I hated empty jars. Others love them. I'm not saying dew collectors are the best option, but I prefer them over empty jars.

The old clothes were acceptable, but looked bad. The new armor looks much better, but offers fewer customization options. They could probably have done something in the middle, but chose an option that doesn't lead to having to fix a lot of clipping based on mixing and matching a bunch of stuff. It's fine, even if it's not as good as it could have been. But it looks much better than the old armor/clothing and so I prefer it. As far as "magical" bonuses, I would be happy to remove all bonuses and just have the basics - armor, speed, noise, stamina use. But I also don't really care. I mostly ignore the bonuses and just pick what I like.

Temperature is moot since it's returning.

Wetness may return; I don't think they said for sure. But both it and temperature in the past were mostly pointless. Hopefully whatever we get once added back will actually be good. And hopefully it doesn't require constantly swapping stuff in order to deal with changing temperatures.

I'm happy we don't have the gore blocks from before.

I'm happy we don't have to loot all those corpses. It's funny how many people complain about it being a "looter shooter" and yet still want to loot as many corpses as possible. If it was as uncommon as the bags, then it would be fine if it was a corpse instead of a bag. But I don't want every corpse to be lootable.

I am happy not to have to deal with that wellness mechanic.

So yeah... I have different opinions over what is good that others who posted their thoughts. That's kind of the problem... no matter what TFP does, some will like the changes and others will not. They have to just pick a direction that they want and go there and not worry about trying to please everyone.

 

[BFT2020]

I hate being constantly bothered in my base by the screamers.

I am on Day 30 now (I think, I know I am past Day 28 horde and not close enough to Day 35 horde to start upgrading / repairing my horde base) and I have only had to deal with screamers twice now. Once at my base and once while I was working through a POI mission and had to use my pistol more than I expected.

2.3 Experimental did reduce heat generation of the dew collectors.

 

[Grandpa Minion]

The game is called 7 Days to Die. For me, you have to prepare for the HORDES EVERY 7 days.
I hate being constantly bothered in my base by the screamers.
That's why, like many others, I love being quietly underground or high up.
The pleasure of being at home crafting your weapons into 4 pieces, your armor, your clothing.
I enjoy logic, so yes, I also liked the glass jars that break or plastic ones that puncture... zombies basically love fresh flesh, so living or dead animals, noise.
But how does a water collector bring zombies?
We all work, we enjoy immersion when we have the time, and we would like to have peace in our base and stop being harassed by those protesters who say 'my water, my water...'
The game is broken, it's lacking balance, I miss the darkness, the places where you can turn the light on and off.
When I bought the game in alpha a long time ago, I purchased it with a friend.
We know how to have fun until alpha 16, we were hoping for a train to take us from town to town or a cargo plane,
in the end we are really disappointed
I take a lot of pleasure in others and realize that this game has not been able to evolve and has become a month-long game, at the beginning of the game and then disappointed while waiting for the future alpha 3.0 FOR A NEW DISAPPOINTMENT.
I am starting to get used to the disappointments with fun pimps.

well said, and thanks for sharing your feelings towards the current state of the game. I believe alot of veterans of the game have the same sentiment towards what your saying.

 

[Kyoji]

I was surprised by the results and don't at all think jars are more important than bandits and perhaps the people who watch these videos tend to lean one way more so than another but I was honestly surprised to see the how people voted. I also don't think the old LBD system is better than the current system. Perhaps people are voting for the ideal system if implemented properly? I would imagine some of this is also nostalgia-based but how a game feels is important as well and I agree the game doesn't feel as good as when I played it previously. While I love the cities and the quests I also think they stole something from us - exploration and the unknown. They can bring some of it back with a good bandit implemtation IMO.