No, listen:
This is what i gathered in less than 10minutes in default settings and spending skillpoints into intelligence, not strenght.
This should never happened. using skillpoints into strenght should relate to strenght based activities, like wood harvesting, being more profitable than going into anything else. But its not the case. Using traders, pois and quests, especially at the same time, allow for much better gear and gear mods that allow for much better results.
Strenght character gather less wood in longer time than intelligence character who spend most time doing quests.
How this is not considered broken?
A strike with a steel axe takes about 1.5 seconds. Cutting down a fully grown tree takes 4 strikes with a fully upgraded axe skill. A tree yields 300 wood with a fully upgraded gathering skill. So, for a stack of wood you need 1.5x4x20=120 seconds or 2 minutes. For 16 stacks, 32 minutes in ideal conditions, provided you planted correctly and without misses and with normal regeneration and stamina consumption. So you are clearly lying about 10 minutes.
So what? In singleplayer it doesn't matter. In PvE it doesn't matter either. In PvP it might matter, but if you run to the merchant often, you'll most likely get shot at the entrance.
A strike with a steel axe takes about 1.5 seconds. Cutting down a fully grown tree takes 4 strikes with a fully upgraded axe skill. A tree yields 300 wood with a fully upgraded gathering skill. So, for a stack of wood you need 1.5x4x20=120 seconds or 2 minutes. For 16 stacks, 32 minutes in ideal conditions, provided you planted correctly and without misses and with normal regeneration and stamina consumption. So you are clearly lying about 10 minutes.
So what? In singleplayer it doesn't matter. In PvE it doesn't matter either. In PvP it might matter, but if you run to the merchant often, you'll most likely get shot at the entrance.
With books, cofeine buzz, armor set, full moded weapon, strength bonuses from mods (I lied, I put some skillpoints into miner69er and motherlode, but only those provided by increased lvl of strength, or I put two points in Strength to get one more tier... I don't remember). I was regenerating more stamina per second than used for swing. I needed two swings to chop one tree, with no breaks. Coffee buzz lasts 6min stacking 3 times to 18min, and I finished last tree before 8min left, which means less than 10min of chopping.
And even if I would chop this for 30 or even 60 min. How much longer would it take for a lumberjack, who is only chopping, occasionally mining, and have no skill books, no better gear, no way to find mods?
So what? In singleplayer it doesn't matter. In PvE it doesn't matter either. In PvP it might matter, but if you run to the merchant often, you'll most likely get shot at the entrance.
With books, cofeine buzz, armor set, full moded weapon, strength bonuses from mods (I lied, I put some skillpoints into miner69er and motherlode, but only those provided by increased lvl of strength, or I put two points in Strength to get one more tier... I don't remember). I was regenerating more stamina per second than used for swing. I needed two swings to chop one tree, with no breaks. Coffee buzz lasts 6min stacking 3 times to 18min, and I finished last tree before 8min left, which means less than 10min of chopping.
And even if I would chop this for 30 or even 60 min. How much longer would it take for a lumberjack, who is only chopping, occasionally mining, and have no skill books, no better gear, no way to find mods?
Are we comparing a STR player against an INT player, or are we comparing a lumberjack against an INT player? Because a STR player, while using the axe, but also the club and shotgun, is very well able to find mods and get better gear.
Are we comparing a STR player against an INT player, or are we comparing a lumberjack against an INT player? Because a STR player, while using the axe, but also the club and shotgun, is very well able to find mods and get better gear.
We’re comparing playstyles — not just STR vs. INT, but “trader-focused” vs. “everything else.”
The claim was that interacting with traders isn’t mandatory. Maybe technically it’s not… but as we’ve seen, a trader-focused INT build is often more effective at strength-based activities than a STR build that ignores traders.
The result? Playstyle variety suffers. Everyone ends up looting POIs anyway, but trader quests are the only activity that both heavily encourage that loop and stack extra rewards on top. INT characters benefit even more, because traders are built around their strengths.
It doesn't suffer at all. The style of the game is the player's inner feeling. What do you want to get from the game? Pleasure? Numbers on the screen? A splash screen at the end? Everyone answers this question on their own.
It can be compared to visiting a forest. Some people go there to breathe air, listen to birds singing, watch animals. And some go running with headphones in their ears and don't look anywhere except for the pedometer on their hand. To each his own.
We’re comparing playstyles — not just STR vs. INT, but “trader-focused” vs. “everything else.”
The claim was that interacting with traders isn’t mandatory. Maybe technically it’s not… but as we’ve seen, a trader-focused INT build is often more effective at strength-based activities than a STR build that ignores traders.
Yes, because one of those playstyles ignores an element of the game and the other uses all. If the INT player would ignore combat its progression would be curtailed as well.
If you want to play a pure lumberjack in a SP game and don't want to scavenge as well, then you need a different source of money and gear than looting and the only place where you can sell your produce and get stuff for it is the trader. So a pure lumberjack HAS to use the only NPC in the game that will trade with you, the trader. In reality a lumberjack needs to sell his wood as well to get everything else, otherwise he will starve on top of a huge pile of wood.
Now, even though I disagree on the details above I still agree with you that the trader is central to too many game play elements and the quest system (maybe including INT) may still be in need of some further nerfing (though I would need more play time be sure and the trader was definitely nerfed in the last iterations)
The result? Playstyle variety suffers. Everyone ends up looting POIs anyway, but trader quests are the only activity that both heavily encourage that loop and stack extra rewards on top. INT characters benefit even more, because traders are built around their strengths.
I agree that the extra rewards are still a problem. Not necessarily the items, but definitely the money and probably XP(?). We don't find enough money in containers and the biggest source (even after selling most of the stuff we find) is still the trader reward.
There is a good reason for the rewards, as an incentive in co-op to play as a team and a way for every player to get something out of a POI no matter how many. But co-op players get other benefits as well, so to me it seems there still is some balancing needed.
No, listen:
This is what i gathered in less than 10minutes in default settings and spending skillpoints into intelligence, not strenght. View attachment 36305
This should never happened. using skillpoints into strenght should relate to strenght based activities, like wood harvesting, being more profitable than going into anything else. But its not the case. Using traders, pois and quests, especially at the same time, allow for much better gear and gear mods that allow for much better results.
Strenght character gather less wood in longer time than intelligence character who spend most time doing quests.
How this is not considered broken?
The biggest culprit are magazines, which forces players to only one playstyle - looting. It's not about combat, one can disable zombie spawns and still run tons of quests, and gather magazines just by that. Looting is only progress in the game. And as much as I agree it should be part of the game, and players should want to interact with this activity just like with every other one... Every other one... But it should not be as forced as it is now.
If You are miner69er, You can't progress without looting. But if You are adventurer, you can progress without mining. This is the problem I'm trying to point out.
Progression should be available for every playstyle within this playstyle. Mining should make you better miner, and questing should make you better... Trader.. I guess.
I was posting suggestion of how to achieve that. And yes, pois will not be as much important but still important, since lot of ingredients needs to be found, especially legendary parts.
(Also traders have to be nerfed, or preferably have option to disable them and re-introduce quests via notes... That was amazing, immersive way for quests).
With steel axe. I find chainsaw too slow and resource draining. With good perks, set and mods, axe can drain less stamina that you recover so you will never run out of stamina.
The biggest culprit are magazines, which forces players to only one playstyle - looting. It's not about combat, one can disable zombie spawns and still run tons of quests, and gather magazines just by that. Looting is only progress in the game. And as much as I agree it should be part of the game, and players should want to interact with this activity just like with every other one... Every other one... But it should not be as forced as it is now.
If You are miner69er, You can't progress without looting. But if You are adventurer, you can progress without mining. This is the problem I'm trying to point out.
Progression should be available for every playstyle within this playstyle. Mining should make you better miner, and questing should make you better... Trader.. I guess.
I was posting suggestion of how to achieve that. And yes, pois will not be as much important but still important, since lot of ingredients needs to be found, especially legendary parts.
(Also traders have to be nerfed, or preferably have option to disable them and re-introduce quests via notes... That was amazing, immersive way for quests).
Post automatically merged:
With steel axe. I find chainsaw too slow and resource draining. With good perks, set and mods, axe can drain less stamina that you recover so you will never run out of stamina.
I suggested to add a tech-tree. People don´t like it.
Scraping stuff should give you blueprint-points to unlock that item and give you access to repair option after you fully researched it.
If you scrap stuff you already know how to craft then you get research experience to research new stuff.
But unlocking technologies behind a tech-tree and more working-stations and behind scrapping stuff it would make too much sense and veterans can not build helicopter by day 7.
